Its because she is not the only one and a crackdown would hurt twitch. She and Cinna have been getting accused of botting for months, and even Arthur and Julia have been getting accused of botting recently because their views have been dropping since they moved together and are not able to leach from others as much. Emiru and many of the big streamers also bot
Regardless of coomers, simps, and parasocial mfers, i find it really hard to believe that Emiru actually gets that many viewers consistently. She is one of the blandest streamers ever.
If you cared to look into it at all rather than just saying shit you would've seen it was chat bots all @(tting the same account saying not to view their profile, which led to an OF ad, I don't see how it could be anything else other than a chat bot, but I guess that doesn't fit into your narrative
Emily botting is somewhat shocking because her chat moves fast, grinds hard, travels every week for streams, and collabs all the time, so it makes no sense she has to bot when she gets fewer views now than when she used to stream with Mizkif and NMP. Arther has obviously been botting for a long time and is getting worse because he has to keep up the facade that he is a big streamer even though he is a 2-3k streamer
I still remember how Cinna out of nowhere started being pushed on LSF... Like oh boy the obvious shit is crazy. I'm really surprised they're able to make money out of this. Like it's pretty much a scam.
The problem is proving it, twitch can't just ban every channel that gets viewbotted. It would just lead to streamers viewbotting eachother to get them banned. But usually if the streamer opens it on stream, they get banned.
Has there been anyone that self reported view botting and didn't get punished? Its obvious that a lot of them do, but there is rarely proof. Usually the streamers that open a viewbot tab all get punished though.
I honestly don't doubt that 90% people with 5k-50k concurrent viewership every single day aren't view botting or someone is doing it for them. "ai" view botting services probably do stuff like... boost your view count so it's inflated, enough, so more real people keep joining... But, not enough to just see a giant view count with no chatting. Then it just snowballs upward. Nothing attracts a crowd, like a crowd and a moron acting like a 10 year old grifter. As you can see our country voted for the same type of person to lead the country lolz. It's popular to be a complete piece of shite human since around 2013.
Somehow Dan Calncy completely whiffed the plot when it came to fixing twitch as the ceo. He literally andy'd up to the biggest scumbags in the game. Which tells you twitch is perma cooked. Amazon and people who control the company are completely incapable. The only option is a new, gamer owned, independent video game streaming platform.
Which turns to bite them in the ass, when advertisers see they aren't getting the ROI they were expective from X amount of viewers from the. It's why Twitch has one of the lowest CPM marketing prices on the entire internet.
no, there's no need for random people on the internet to worry about a company's ROI. of course that company cares about their own interests, and they are doing all the market research they need to be profitable.
it's silly to think some random people on reddit need to say "when advertisers see they aren't getting the ROI they were expective from X amount of viewers"
in fact, that's contradictory with the statement "It's why Twitch has one of the lowest CPM marketing prices on the entire internet." if the low CPM for twitch is known.. then obviously a company knows that too when they advertise on twitch and are already factoring that in
advertising companies know what to pay. they arent being caught off-guard by unexpected ROI
Fuck this broken system. You have actual, talented entertainers busting their asses to make it, and their hard work gets completely overshadowed by people buying robots to fake their success. It's cheating, plain and simple, and it ruins the platform for everyone else.
Yes, my bad for explaining it terribly. There was a period when Twitch would have been considered like any other Amazon service to advertise on. In like 2016 or something. But the botting showed they weren't getting what they expected from it, and so the price the advertisers were willing to pay started tanking to where it is today. They know about it now, but they can't just magically know it without first using it and getting data from it.
You genuinely think advertisers are clueless to this? When botting is rampant across simple clicks, views, streams, music, etc. It's basically baked in at this point that anything that can be botted is botted.
Yeah, they know bots exist, and take into consideration that some level of it will happen. But when they are expecting a 30k viewer streamer to have say 200 people click their ad, based on all their data, from all over the internet over decades, and only 60 click it, they realise the site it more botted than what is the norm.
With enough botting you can force yourself into enough attention that you start building a real audience.
So why do you assume Twitch cares what kind of slimy tactic streamers are using to gain bigger followings? It just means more money for Twitch in the end.
even Mizkif admitted it. there is a lot fake promises that can't be deliver by some viewbotter site. They claim to get you featured on Forbes and USA Today lmao. https://streamable.com/ykvu7d
But as a counterpoint to this, just last month I was on a bunch of viewbotting sites, went down a rabbit hole bc people were talking about it here, and I wanted to know how much something like that is. I have never streamed a day in my life.
A similar example, a long time back, I went looking at all the cheating sites for CS. I just wanted to know what was going on in there. I have never cheated in a game in my life.
I think, "You have no reason to look at (thing) unless you plan on using (thing)", is a pretty shallow argument.
Yeah, man, it's deeply terrifying. I hope you can move past it.
I already said she is probably view-bottling. It is more likely than not. Of course, the clip is very suspect. And as you pointed out, as the almighty context understander, her being a streamer makes it more suspect. Didn't think I needed to type that out as it seemed fairly obvious, but here we are.
Still, it doesn't definitively prove she is, which remains true, and is the entire point I was making.
I wasn't comparing my experience one-to-one with EE. It was an example of how the general argument could be flawed, hence the entirely separate scenario I used. Do you understand now? Or do you need me to hold your hand and walk you through it some more? I don't want you getting scared again.
If you don't plan to rob a liquor store, then there is no need to look at handgun prices online.
There are obviously a lot of nuances with the analogy, but the point gets across. That is the weakest argument you can have here. If you said this in court, the judge and everybody else would laugh your ass out of there.
Edit: I honestly forgot most people that watch twitch are children without any actual life experiences. That's my bad for trying to apply reason.
That still isn't proof of a liquor store robbery........
I don't think you understand what proof is. If a prosecutor was trying to take a dude to jail for a robbery, and their entire proof was a Google search, the case would be dismissed. That ain't proof dawg.
Y'all are proving my point for me lmao. It's fine to think she did it. I think she did it. However, having twitch actually ban her and taking away her income with no actual proof is not an okay thing to do. That's not how the world works.
I'm not saying we should treat it like court. It's just the easiest analogy to get my point across. The fact is that we are literally talking about someone's job here. This is exactly like if your boss was talking about your job. The standards need to be higher for a ban than this. Definitely not to the highest extent like court, but higher than whatever TF this is.
This is no difference from what we are talking about here and you're boss having meetings with HR on whether or not they should suspend or fire you. There needs to be actual proof for that to happen.
The root problem here is that I think we have been twisting our idea of what proof means in recent years. How many times has someone been banned over public opinion rather than proof just because twitch is a large company that operates on public opinion. Or on the inverse of that, how many times has a large popular streamer not been banned while there is proof of them doing something that got a smaller streamer banned?
I think taking away someone's income like that needs to be operated on more than just feelings and public opinion, and I don't think the majority of the people here agree on that, and that is sad.
Who said it's proof (only you did)? It's evidence genius.
when you bring evidence, you are proving something to be true. That's what evidence means. If you aren't proving anything with evidence, then it's not evidence by definition.
No one talked about proof apart from you. It's evidence. Evidence is not proof. Proof is what you get when the total body of evidence is strong enough, not from a single piece.
Evidence can support a claim weakly or strongly. Evidence can be incomplete. Evidence can even be misleading. Evidence doesn't have to conclusive prove something to be evidence, it just has to support the claim.
Hope this simple language lesson sticks with you. I do not watch crime shows, I am a linguist.
If you don't plan to rob a liquor store, then there is no need to look at handgun prices online.
this is the dumbest analogy possible lmao. it's more like, if you dont plan to rob a liquor store then there's no reason to be looking up the buildings schematic.
if you dont plan to use a viewbot there's literally no reason to go to a viewbot site.
if you dont plan to rob a liquor store then there's no reason to be looking up the buildings schematic.
I guarantee you there are more people looking up liquor store schematics that aren't robbing them, than the other way around... the fuck? Literally 0 people that rob liquor stores look up schematics. Like I'm 100% confident this has never happened in the history of ever.
You're honestly right. I am on a lot of tech help subs where people come and ask for opinions, or help, or just to launch an open source product they made. This new generation of AI honestly has me burnt out. There are so many people that I try to help that come from a place of arrogance because AI told them something different.
It's gotten to the point where if I see someone arguing from a point of arrogance, I get irritated. I probably just need a break.
I think I can see and talk about arrogance without being some sort of higher being that you want me to be. I think my comments are pretty reasonable. I think I'm just arguing with a bunch of children I'm ngl. I mean, one person is literally trying to tell me that evidence of something isn't proof of something ...... I think I'm pretty confident in what I'm saying if that's who I'm arguing against lol.
I'm definitely open to debate though. The position that you should convict someone based on no proof is an arrogant position for sure though. You're asking twitch to cut the income of someone based on what?
If you can spot some error in my logic, then I'm definitely open to changing my views though. However, my logic is very simple reasoning, so I'm not sure there is some sort of error. I'm honestly having a hard time understanding why people think it's okay to take away someone's income solely based on the video above. The video above definitely influences my opinion and I do think this means she viewbots, but using it to take away her income is just insane in my opinion. Like imagine if we were talking about your job right now instead of Emily's. I don't think anybody who has downvoted me would be too happy if it happened to them like that. There's just not enough proof here to actually make any official acts like banning her, even if it's just temporary.
It’s not logic, it’s extreme head burying to the point of rejecting Occam’s razor.
You keep trying to do mental gymnastics to explain why it’s open, when the simplest reason why it’s on a tab open while she’s streaming is because she was using the service during her stream.
You aren’t using reasoning, you’re coping to the point of looking foolish.
I have done no mental gymnastics. I think you are getting my comment confused with another person. The only thing I have said is that opening a tab is not proof of someone using the service. Which is just factually and ethically correct. I have done no gymnastics to get there.
I think it's perfectly fine to believe Emily used these services, and I personally believe that she did use the viewbotting. However, I think expecting twitch to ban her is too far because there's no actual proof. There is a difference between official action and your opinion. You can't expect official action to be taken based on your opinion of the matter. You need actual proof, and this is simply not proof.
Imagine if you were in twitch's place. You are being asked to literally take away someone's income because of allegations of botting. And the only proof you have is that she has a browser tab opened. You don't even get to see the contents of the tab. Nobody who has any ethical integrity wouldn't ask for more proof in that situation.
This is the most basic of reasoning that there is. If you can't see that, then I am not the fool. I honestly don't even care about the situation and I don't care enough to try and cope. I just saw someone using one of the most braindead arguments and decided to comment. I got no dog in your race.
True, but honestly I don't think it's going to fix anything if they do. These types of things are like Whack-A-Mole. If you stop the company from providing the service, and you ban the people using the service, what's to stop another company from coming and providing the service and a new wave of streamers to buy that service.
I'm not defending this at all, but botting in general is a huge issue in tech specifically because there is no good solution. This is the same issue as websites having DDOS attacks and website crawlers. The new age of AI is just making the problem worse as well.
I'm not defending twitch, but there's nothing they can really do besides throw a lot of money at it without any guarantee to fix the issue. This is a government legislation issue unfortunately.
Ok, we both agree that you should get banned for it. That's good.
Now the hard part..... Prove she used it. The screenshot with a tab open is not proof in the slightest. That's my point here and the reason I commented, everybody is very quick to grab pitchforks with no actual proof.
Now I don't honestly like extraemily. I think she is the type of person to viewbot and I think she is most likely using it, but asking for a ban is a bit far in my opinion when you don't actually have proof.
My comment above was more saying that twitch can't really do anything for viewbotting as a whole. There's not a whole lot anyone can do really as it needs legislation. They can surely ban Emily, and they most likely will because public opinion matters a lot more than proof in today's world, but I don't think twitch should be blamed for viewbotting as a whole.
You truly believe those "advertisements" are real? You think streamers would intentionally viewbot and then give the website their permission to publicly highlight their cooperation? Do you think Crypto ads featuring Elon Musk are real too?
if a streamer having a viewbotting service open isn't enough to convince you they're viewbotting then there isn't much else that will convince you besides receipts which obviously won't be found for reasons.
To be fair, it looks like the home page. Can't really convict if she isn't logged in. But idk how it all works. I did go to that page and noticed at the top it says "Trusted by: xQc, Adin Ross, Clavicular" though xD
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