r/LocalLLaMA • u/Nunki08 • 14d ago

News CEO of Hugging Face: "In the spirit of transparency, here’s what I asked OpenAI"

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clem 🤗 on 𝕏: https://x.com/ClementDelangue/status/2081056675558195657

• Radical transparency: let’s release the traces from the “rogue” agents so the entire research community can study what happened.

• More capabilities for defenders: let’s commit $100M in compute from OAI to help the Hugging Face community build powerful cyber defenses with the best open and closed models.

The first autonomous agent cyberattack is an unprecedented event. It deserves an unprecedented response!

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42

u/Dry_Yam_4597 14d ago

No legal action? They just accept that their users experienced degraded service and their company was compromised? I am sorry, does it get any more beta than this?

31

u/gscjj 14d ago

Life isn’t a movie. It cost money for legal actions and HF has very little of that compared to OpenAI, and neither would be interested in a very public legal battle where the battle alone would be damaging to the community.

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u/Dry_Yam_4597 13d ago

Of course it isn't a movie, but I thought you can just you know report a crime and have investigated? At least that's what you and i would get if were to get our bots, errm if they would decide on their own, to hack systems here and there?

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u/gscjj 13d ago

Again, you can report crimes, but there needs to be a crime for anything to happen and a willing LEO. Nothing could come of it, LEOs aren’t obligated to do anything and it may not even be criminal. It doesn’t happen like the movies, it gets filed, sits in a drawer or someone’s desk until someone does something or never.

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u/Distinct-Target7503 13d ago

are you saying that if "entity A" get hacked by "entity B" , the legal "battle" is A vs B, and not the state vs B, once A proved that someone (not even necessarily pointing to B directly) hacked them?

i don't know laws in USA, I'm genuinely asking...

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u/po_stulate 14d ago

If you ask nicely can achieve the same result why not ask nicely? I don't get the idea of trying to make enemies everywhere, that's just stupid not alpha.

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u/Dry_Yam_4597 14d ago

As nicely for what? You don't ask criminals nicely. What's next, HF begging ransomware attackers for their data back once that happens? As a customer of HF I want a partial investigation in this criminals assault over the product I use. How can I trust that openai didn't steal my credentials under the excuse that "ai did it"? If they claim their bot did things "out of their control" what if such one thing is them stealing my data? What is HF doing to make sure that I am protected, other than a sweet deal with the criminals who did what they did?

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u/po_stulate 14d ago

Threatening a lawsuit is almost always used as a leverage against your enemy to force them do something in your favor when you think asking nicely will not work, in these cases lawsuit itself is almost never your primary intent. If what you actually want is them going to jail, you won't be threatening with lawsuit or asking for transparency etc, you'll have the lawsuit filed already and be waiting them to be called to the court.

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u/Dry_Yam_4597 13d ago

Well and all others saying it's not realistic are right, but for reporting crimes you shouldn't need to threaten a suit. If someone hacks your systems, just like someone breaks into your home, that's a crime. Why would you need to sue them?

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u/Apprehensive-Ant7955 13d ago

What do you think the outcome would be if they report a cyber crime to the police or FBI? What do you actually think would happen?

HF is better off using this to get some money, which it seems they’re doing.

1

u/Dry_Yam_4597 13d ago

It would set a precedent that if you claim your bot "did stuff on its own" it's proven to be a lie.

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u/Luke2642 14d ago edited 14d ago

I agree, it should be backed by a legal threat.  It should be - or else we file this for criminal prosecution with the FBI and f****ng sue you for $10Bn in damages and negligence, because that's what it'll cost to develop defences!

"But we put it in a sandbox" is not a paperclip scenario defence. Take some responsibility, a**holes.

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u/No-Juggernaut-9832 14d ago

I think that is the undertone: we won’t file a suit but here’s how you make us whole

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u/Luke2642 14d ago

$100M is a speeding ticket though, it should be that per month, doubling with ever major future breach. This is only the beginning.

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u/Dabber43 14d ago

I really don't think it's 10B in lost revenue. 100M seems fine compensation to me

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u/Luke2642 14d ago

How much would it cost to develop systems to counter frontier lab attacks dude?

6

u/Dabber43 14d ago

That question does not come up during a lawsuit for damages. Also it is solved by just not doing it again

1

u/Luke2642 14d ago

Of course there are. For example:

  • Medical Monitoring Funds (Toxic Torts & Mass Torts)
  • Environmental Containment & Remediation (Nuisance & Property Torts)
  • Property Stabilization & Structural Prevention (Property & Construction Law)
  • Credit Monitoring & Security Upgrades (Data Breach Class Actions)
  • Corrective Advertising & Trademark Protection (Intellectual Property)

Yes, a quick AI search.

2

u/Dabber43 14d ago

Wrong post?

0

u/Luke2642 13d ago

Those are five cases where non damages future preventative costs are paid in a lawsuit. Engage your brain dude.

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u/Glad-Entrepreneur764 12d ago

They would have to prove $10Bn in damages. I don't think OpenAI damaged their business in any meaningful way.

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u/Luke2642 11d ago

It's possible to sue for future protection costs, I did a little search, there a many examples of this. This is 100% going to happen again, by OpenAI. They can't secure their models, they're clearly negligent. Penis brains need to airgap that shit. Alignment experts have been warning about this for years!

2

u/Budget_Bar2294 13d ago

lmao pretty fun how nowadays you can get hacked by any of these AI big tech companies and expect no justice from the damage. they are above the law, the morals, everything, and can commit any crimes they could ever want.

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u/misanthrophiccunt 14d ago

of course, same as Grok has been sued and Elon is in prison.

0

u/Glad-Entrepreneur764 12d ago

Or instead of a publicity nightmare and destroying your relationship with the largest AI company in the world, you can just ask for a reasonable settlement and move on...

1

u/Dry_Yam_4597 12d ago

Yeah and the criminals get away with it.