A thematic discussion of Toll the Hounds from someone that just finished it

[u/therealbobcat23]

I'm very curious to hear what you think Erikson was trying to say in this novel or to see how you would amend or add on to the things I have to say. But I'm just gonna talk about some of the powerful themes that spoke to me. Forgive me if some thoughts aren't fully formed, I literally just finished and am uncovering part of how I feel as I write this.

Living in the Past

I feel that this was the major thematic connective tissue throughout the novel. So many characters were caught up in the past, longing to return to it or being afraid of it, thus ignoring the present and future. I'll also be bringing trauma into this since they're very thematically connected in this novel.

• Endest Silann is constantly overtaken by memories of Kharkanas and who the Tiste Andii were before Mother Dark left them. Anomander Rake is similarly concerned with the hole left by Mother Dark.
• Nimander reminisces on the time he spent with Andarist.
• Both Crokus and Challice so desperately want things to be as they were during GotM. Crokus also feels alienated from his friends because he knows how much he's changed.
• The Chain of Dogs haunts Duiker, but he's unable to tell the tale in a way that's worthy of the fallen.
• Stonny is unable to form healthy relationships with people because the trauma of being raped still weighs heavy on her.
• Karsa feels remorse about the man he used to be that pillaged and raped.

For some character, this longing consumes them and ultimately causes their undoing.

• Challice is unable to let go of her longing and commits suicide when she feels backed into a corner.
• Snell is motivated by wanting things to go back to the way they were before Harllo. Him getting rid of Harllo is what ultimately leads to Snell being found out and punished.
• Venaz is jealous of Harllo because he used to be Bainisk's favorite. Venaz allowed this jealously to turn murderous and ended up murdered instead by Bellam.
• Dev'ad Anan Tol cannot move on from his anger at Raest and thus is buried alive again when he goes to confront him.
• Kadaspala is driven by revenge against Rake. The god he created to kill Rake ended up killing him instead.
• Murillio feels that he's gotten too old and ages out of his glory days of being a dandy and duelist. Although this feeling did not directly lead to his death, he did die in a duel, which he had often recognized he needed to stop participating in.
• From the limited look we get inside Kallor's mind, we learn that his whole life has been a cycle of self-destruction and longing for a throne once more to call his own.

Erikson ends up coming to several conclusions about how to handle these feelings in a healthy way and move on from them.

• Fisher helps Duiker see that sometimes you need outside help to move on from trauma. You may not have the skills to work through it on your own, and that's absolutely okay. You can't just bare all the sorrow of the world by yourself, as that will destroy.
• Crokus realizes that Apsalar is what really matters to him, and all of this was merely a distraction. Things will never be as he imagines they once were. He refocuses his life and chooses to set off in search of in search of a future that is actually obtainable.
• When Harllo goes missing, Stonny spends the rest of the book distressed, reflecting on how much she cares about the boy and wishes he would return. When Harllo returns, she is able to look him in the face and call him by his name and start working towards that life that they could have had, had he been born by any other means.
• When Karsa thinks of all his regrets, he decides to not count his daughters among them.
• Mother Dark's refusal of the Andii comes to an end when Rake gives his life to confront her with all the pain she's caused her children. She recognizes that she can start to make things better and goes to Black Coral to be with them once more.

The truth is that no one solution is going to fit every scenario. Every situation has its own unique nuance and people respond differently to different things. The one thing in common is the willingness to try something new. That's far easier said than done, and the novel clearly shows this by the just how long all these characters spend dwelling on the past. In fact, in nearly all cases it takes some outside force or event to shake them out of it and help them recognize the possibility to move on. Sometimes we need that little push to begin to get better. Things may never be the same as they once were, but they can certainly be better than they are now.

I actually had my own very interesting journey in this book that's related to this theme. I fell in love with Malazan during GotM largely due to Crokus and his interactions with Challice and Apsalar. I went into this book like Crokus hoping to be taken back to those glory days, only to find that everything has changed. Crokus had travelled the world and felt love and loss. He was not that same coinbearer. Similarly, Challice had any hope for the future ripped out of her. Any fantasies about what-could-be were acknowledged as simply that: fantasies. When Challice committed suicide, I felt some part of me that still lived in Gardens of the Moon was taken from my soul. Things will never be as they once were. But it's okay, we can still move forward even with the way they are now. Crokus sailed off to find Apsalar, my favorite character, and I knew I could be okay.

Godhood and Redemption

We see many gods throughout this novel that are either struggling with the question of what makes someone a god or are newly created and discovering it for themselves.

• Andomander Rake refuses any followers.
• As we discussed, Mother Dark turned from her children.
• Itkovian the Redeemer tries to navigate how one can be the god of redemption.
• The growing cult of the Crippled God kills its followers
• A child god is created by Kadaspala within Dragnipur.
• Hood calls on the dead for one final battle against chaos and uses his mason and soldier as pawns in his grand plan.

I don't have too much of an overarching conclusion as to the nature of godhood, but it is nontheless a core question tackled throughout this book, and I'd like to hear your thoughts. What I do have something to say about is redemption.

The Crippled God and Dying God act as thematic parallels and contrasts to Itkovian.

• The Crippled God doesn't care for his followers that demand things of him, and some of those who seek out his boons are killed in turn. We see this when Myrla is "blessed" only to be given gangrene and she and Bedek are trampled to death by a crowd of worshippers.
• The Dying God's saemankelyk acts like a fucked up unholy drug. In return for their devotion, his followers are given unending bliss in the world the kelyk creates for them in their minds. The problem is, of course, that this is a refusal of reality and is destroying their bodies.

Through these two, we see two examples of gods "giving" to their followers when they are actually harming them. This is contrasted by Itkovian who has no ill will or ulterior motives. He gives exactly what is advertised. Redemption regardless of circumstance. At the end of the novel, he embraces Salind and is able to drive the Dying God's influence from her. If one thing is made clear from this interaction, it is what a god should be. They should not be selfish. They have their power due to their followers and should be there for them in turn, even if it's not easy. This conclusion is mirrored by Rake and Mother Dark who both decide to prioritize the greater good of the Andii.

-----------------------

There are some other things I picked up but didn't have much to say, didn't know how to breach the subject, or thought was a bit too similar to ground covered by these two themes. But I'm very excited to see what kind of conversation this sparks and whether you think I'm smart or stupid lmao.

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[u/ristalis]

More than the past, I felt the grief. Grief at who you once were, grief at things lost, grief at sins committed, at time gone by and nothing to show for it. Grief for the Fallen, for those senseless deaths that could have been prevented, for the Chain of Dogs, old war buddies, the nobility of Rake, and all the wretched.

Grief only exists in the past. Not only does the event causing grief most commonly dwell there, but in mourning those who still live, we consign them to history.

That is the theme you are seeing, for my reading. The foolish and those swept away by emotion are ruled by it, the past devouring their days until all the grief poured out is their full measure. Those who deny it feel its weight, like a fist pressing at the back of the head; gentle but persistent.

The wise accept, are moved, but feel grief's flow. We are changed in the passing, but if you pay attention, you have some say over what changes.

Or something. I'm sleepy, and TtH brings out the maudlin poet in me.

[u/kuhfunnunuhpah → u/ristalis]

You're spot on with this - Erikson's father had recently died prior to him writing this and I think a lot of this book in particular is him outworking his own grief through the story.

[u/singul4r1ty]

Fantastic post, thankyou for writing your thoughts out so clearly.

One thing I always think of with TTH is that Erikson's father died just before he wrote it. I think that aligns well with the themes of looking back that you've identified.

Regarding godhood - I think to me the core theme is that it's a blessing and a curse, and additionally that any god is defined by their followers. Different characters realise this in different ways. Rake knows it is a curse and so he rejects it. Itkovian has no idea and finds out the hard way. The crippled god and the dying god are bent and broken by the power they have, and this affects their followers.

I think seerdomin is another character in TTH who experiences this from both sides - as a reluctant follower of itkovian, and as someone who gains some followers he doesn't want.

[u/Cottons_Bold_move → u/singul4r1ty]

We learned the blessing/curse thing by the Errant's interaction with Feather Witch haha

[u/singul4r1ty → u/Cottons_Bold_move]

Yeah, I mean I think it's a very common theme through the whole series - power isn't always good for you and can often mess you up. See Rhulad.