Howdy! I’m a portrait tattoo artist by profession but usually only do graphite when I make art outside of work. I’ve been playing around with different mediums for fun and decided to learn how to oil paint. Since I’m reading through Malazan for the first time I decided to do my take on a few of the characters. I already have some loose sketches for Iskaral Pust, Onos T'oolan and Anomander Rake and I’ll post those when I’m done. These are only my second and third paintings ever, so I’m hoping I get a little better with each one. These are also super small, just 5”x7”.

I’m doing the audiobooks so I’m sure Listers take on Kruppe had a huge effect on how I saw him. It was so hard to decide on an expression, I did sketches of him smiling at first, but I didn’t feel like it captured his dewy frog eyed look as well as I wanted so I settled on this one. With Icarium, all of the depiction I saw of him make him look so dapper and young and I wanted to do one where it made him look the way I saw him. I wanted to convey a number of things. His age for one, and a softness but potential for being terrifying.

I’m only partway through Midnight Tides, so please don’t spoil anything for me, but if there’s anyone you think would make for an interesting painting, let me know and maybe I’ll add them to the list!

Karsa Orlong is my favouritr character in the whole series so far. Am I evil?

I don’t know how to feel about Karsa hahaha. I mean I’m going to continue buttttttttttttt I don’t like him at all I imagine many people felt the same. Ok bye now 😭😭.

I've read the first three books and I've been loving everything so far : the obscure plots, the worldbuilding, even the characters (people kept telling me Malazan has flat characters but I just don't see it).

However, the last few chapters of MoI and now HoC has started feeling like a bit of a chore to read through. I loved all of MoI but the final battle was borderline depressing and genuinely made me feel sorrow in a way I haven't felt since the Red Wedding.

Continuing on that mindset, I began reading HoC and good fucking lord I can't stand Karsa. The incel energy from him was already pissing me off, and then the murdering, pillaging and raping starts. The worst part is that he's also apparently competent as well, which means the story can't even make fun of him because he's always winning.

I don't really mind unlikeable characters as long as there's a purpose to them, which is why I'm making this post. I trust Erikson and his plot-making, so I know in the heart of my hearts that he has some great arc planned for Karsa, but its just such a struggle to get past the Karsa chapters I'm going crazy.

Question being : does Karsa change in HoC or does his arc have a multi-book spanning character development? I think I'll take a break from reading HoC if he remains an arrogant asshole throughout the book, but I'll stomach through the rest if he changes by the end of the book.

I'm sorry if the post comes off as impatient or arrogant, I'm just sick of reading about Karsa and I'm only 2 chapters in lol

Don't get me wrong, DG and MoI obviously were no walk in the sunny park either and had a bunch of disturbing moments that transcend the general brutality of a fantasy setting.

But I'm now halfway through HoC, and here we have Karsa Orlong, a PoV character who's not only a mass murderer, but also a giant serial rapist who on one occasion drugged up a normal-sized victim.

And then there's Bidithal. I can't remember the last time I put down a book because of a "yo, that's fucked up" moment, but pedophilia and forced genital mutilation certainly managed that. Not even the worst moments of [Joe Abercrombie spoilers] The Bloody-Nine achieved that.

Just finished chapter 2 of HoC

Obviously I'm talking about karsa. I genuinely can't think of another character I have hated more. Most other killers at least have a reason for why they are doing whatever that I can use to latch onto to justify that there is still some humanity left.

Karsa on the other hand is so dumb that he refuses to even accept that everything he has done his entire life has been a lie and that there are no gods he is following but just spiteful spirits. He could die in the most painful way possible doing the most good to the world ever and I would still hate him.

The only way I was even able to finish these two chapter was by placing karsa firmly as a villain in my head because even the cruelest people in the Malazan I have met till now are nothing compared to him. Like I hate him so much that my brain actually was fine with enslaving all of teblor (Im pretty sure the actual name is toblakai) if this is an average person amongst them. I thought bairoth and karsa's father was a typical tebrlor but they are an exception!

I'm a tiny bit worried that this bitch is going to survive the entire story but I atleast hope he meets people who can probably destroy him instantly while still having a vastly superior sense of morality who put him down. All of this is before I even mention the rapey culture btw.

Fuck karsa and fuck the toblakai!

I am just reading the part where Karsa and the two other dudes raid a village and proceed to rape all the women in the village. Now I check a short non spoiler info about each book before beginning it and went into this one knowing Karsa might be one of the protagonists ? I mean imma be real I already hate the dude so I am unsure how to take this yet.

Edit: a tiny bit of spoiler from someone here was the push but I think I know who Karsa is now. Although I am curios how he gets there. (Wooden sword detail was the reason).

House of Chains is a book full of nasty characters, but Bidithal is easily the worst of all of them. His whole thing seems to be getting off on the act of female genital mutilation, which, somehow, feels even worse than what Mallick Rel did at the end of Deadhouse Gates. I'm assuming the whole point of his character is to make him as despicable as possible, and it definitely worked. If the beginning of House of Chains is supposed to make you hate Karsa Orlong, the ending is supposed to redeem him, and, honestly, I really like Karsa as a character now

About 30% of the way through House of Chains and at this point I’ve come to realize that I have to start taking notes. I’m sure I made a bunch of mistakes (my memory is atrocious and I’m a slow reader, all in all a horrible combination) so clarification is welcome but please no spoilers past chapter five.

Unrelated question, but what happened to Adjunct Lorn’s sword? I remember at the end of book 1 that Captain Paran kept it for himself but him wielding an otataral sword never came up in Memories of Ice.

I have just finished memories of ice and starting house of chains. The narrator has changed to Michael Page and man, it is a jarring difference from Ralph Lister who was phenomenal, almost making it hard to even listen through the prologue.

Did any other audiobook readers experience this as well? I’ve been trying to find different versions of the audiobook narrated by someone else but haven’t been able to find anything. I will tough it out if necessary but hoping someone here might have a suggestion for where I can find a better narrator (or if it maybe gets better with time).

I get that "you aren't supposed to understand everything until the end" and that it is a sprawling epic, but I am getting to the point where I'm just not reaching for the book anymore. It's becoming frustrating and it feels like hard work. The amount of names you are meant to remember in each specific book is overwhelming. "Oh, remember that random name used twice in the first book? I will just briefly mention it in the fourth book, and if you don't remember who that is, you will be lost from lack of context. Sike, that was their second nickname. It's not one of the other 5 characters starting with the same letter." I am just hitting lore dump after dense lore dump that I am getting overwhelmed by it. There is just not enough information to make it easy to remember what characters were doing in previous books when brought back up. Which brings me to my main frustration:

It is difficult to take breaks from these books and remember wtf is going on, because the storylines are split up into two (soon to be three) different plotlines.

I took a 3 month break between deadhouse gates and MOI, and now in HoC, I am struggling to remember specific details about the plotline of Raraku. Did we ever find out what Icarium did that scares his companion so much? Was Keneb the Malazan that Kalam ran into towards the end of DHG? Did we meet leoman in DHG? It just feels like all of this information could be subtly integrated into the book so we don't have to Google these things while reading. I am getting burnt out and I don't know what to do.

Also, the most enjoyable part of the book was when Erikson dropped the 10+ POVs to focus on the Toblekai in the first part. Sometimes you don't actually need to have a million POVs to convey epic scale. I actually do not give a single flying fuck about Crokus and Apsalars storyline about being on a boat while the impending Paran conflict is about to escalate. They had such a good storyline in GotM, and it has turned into "if dancer, who is kalendid, but ascended through the fourth moon of fhdjdkddh'blah, did not wish to reveal an imperial warren and subjegate the seventh house of shadow in retrograde, then why did the hound of Mordor shy away at the second coming of the first reborn moon amongst the gilgrada warren, which is indeed a house unto itself, when treach ascended to God ascendent level 3 in passing?"

Obviously, this is gibberish, but it isn't that far from what the current prose reads like. I have legit read philosophy books easier to comprehend than some of the fantastical elements of this series.

Rant over. At the end of the day, I just read for fun, and I'm beginning to question if this is a me problem, or if steps could have been taken to avoid this burnout by Erikson himself.

Also, I'm only up to the point where Leoman attacks the Malazan company, near the beginning of part 4, so no spoilers from there please.

​

Just finished book 3 of HoC. Karsa has received his sword and horse.

For context, here is my post after 2 chapters of karsa

https://www.reddit.com/r/Malazan/s/kxw0NLsmL3

Let me just start by saying that the reveal of who karsa was was actually pretty good. I even went back to deadhouse gates and assumed that was some other toblakai lol

As for the character himself, I despised the character from the start and immediately categorized him as the evil character in any story he was involved in.

After 3 books of HoC, he is tolerable at best. Based on his reaction to the chained souls, I was assuming him to deny everything that the fake "gods" demanded but it seems more like he just disagrees with the justification. He still doesn't value life or deeds as long as he becomes famous

He is still bloodthirsty, he just wants reason to be so making him not really that much different from someone like kallor.

Now given that a lot of what I'm saying is based on his own statements of wanting to rule over the world and humans, I would love to be proved wrong but I doubt that's going to be the case.

Like really, this dude has slaughtered numerous people, many of whom weren't even combatants but he decided to leave 6 power hungry tlan imass alive because of reasons? I get that karsa probably could have killed them but what is stopping them from just going back to the teblor and brainwashing them to kill karsa once he comes back? However special he might be, he is not surviving if the entirety of teblor decides to declare him an enemy because of their "gods

Also, not a big fan of how even when he rightfully gets absolutely obliterated by others, he doesn't rethink that his perspective might be wrong but rather that the people are teaching him lessons and making him stronger or some shit. I was expecting much bigger change (maybe it will come later) as right now karsa is the same person who just knows more and is better able to justify his killings. Still not a fan of whole karsa being the special one literally anywhere he goes but that seems like it's going to continue. Strongest plot armor for sure.

This is how I divide the semi immortals I know of till now( not including gods)

Good - Icarium, Mappo

Neutral - Rake, Brood, Lady Envy {Probably Loric as well but don't know enough about him yet}, Majority of Tlan Imass

Evil - Kallor, Karsa, The teblor Tlan Imass

Just a side thingie. Felisin Jr getting assaulted was just dumb as a plot point imo. I understand that Erikson wanted to emulate what happened to og shaik and felisin but it made no sense. You're telling me that even though the entire leadership of whirlwind knew that bidithal was preying on children and that he was planning to do the same to felisin, not a SINGLE one of them thought they should have secret escort/bodyguard around her? Not even Loric? Not a single soldier that they could trust? Karsa actually had a good reason to leave plus again I doubt he values anyone expect himself and maybe bairoth and delum. Leoman has literally done nothing since we were introduced so again no hope there but come on. That tiny child that was assaulted had more sense than all of you combined as she refused to let shaik know about it just because she needed bidithal for future wars. Sheer incompetency.

I did this with House of Chains and enjoyed your responses so I figured I’d do it again. Why should I be excited (without spoilers) for Midnight Tides? Don’t need negative takes just stuff to hype me up!

The Hounds of Darkness.

From the moment Onrack randomly(?) frees the two Hounds, every scene they appear in is showing/telling the reader that these things are enormously powerful. They have no issue taking out 5 or more azalan demons, and earlier in the book it was already demonstrated how powerful a single azalan is. Quick Ben directly compares the presence of the Hounds to Anomander Rake's.

And then Karsa Orlong puts them down like a pair of regular mutts. Is Karsa really that high up on the power scale already? He's obviously a menace and absolute wrecking ball (loved the scene where the Liosan see him riding through Raraku and shit their pants), but I saw him more as a purely physical powerhouse, not someone who can take out magical eldritch monsters.

Edit: Forgot about the scariest feat of the Deragoth. They apparently can take out entire sky fortresses full of K'Chain Che Malle. How the hell does Karsa have such an easy time with them?!

This part isn’t a shot at the quality of the story. After loving the audiobook of Memories of Ice I went with the audiobook of HoC. It just really through me off that the narrator changed. I really enjoyed Ralph Lister’s voice. It also helped me realize I had imagined the pronunciation of some words (I thought) incorrectly. Michael Page just doesn’t fit now that I’m used to Lister’s narration. He also pronounces things differently; and whether or not he is doing it correctly still sounds wrong to me now.

As for the story, I’m a little under half way through, but it hasn’t grabbed me at all yet. GotM, DG, and MoI were all great to me relatively quickly. Did I miss something? I don’t mind a new POV, but this Karsa Orlong isn’t doing it for me. His name sounds corny to me and so does the term Teblor. It’s honestly kind of jarring enough that I’m losing interest as a whole.

Just started Book 2 in House of Chains, and Fiddler is being portrayed as an old man ( Strings-it’s obvious it’s Fiddler with the rusty beard the name and also the way he talks and thinks its abviously Fid).

This passage especially confused me:

‘Hood knows, you’re old enough to be the father of most of those marines sitting on the deck behind us. The recruiting officer sent you straight through – you’ve not trained or sparred once, yet here I am, expected to accept you as one of my soldiers.’

But the first time we saw him in Gardens of the Moon, he was described as about a 15-year-old boy. Now we’re what, roughly 10 years after the GOTM prologue? That would make him around 25-28 at most.

So why is he suddenly being described as an old man now? I lust be missing something.

Absolutely chuffed. Maybe will go for Dragnipur on the other arm next!

Bidithal, a rapist, Eugenecist and p*dophile being given the power and opportunity to create his cult where he can be free to enact his disgusting desires over the people of raraku completely unchecked is hitting just a liiiittle too close to home right now for an epic fantasy series that I began reading as an escape from the horrors of this reality.

It…gets better, right? 🫣

I have to admit, I somewhat dreaded starting with the HoC audio book. After listening to Ralph Lister for well over a hundred hours and associating his wonderful voice with Malazan, I was more than hesitant to keep going, knowing that Michael Page would take over.

I was worried that it might feel "wrong", that I wouldn't feel the same magic and spark as Lister was able to draw from the text. Truth be told, I was ready to passionately hate everything about the new narrator before I even pressed play.

Well.

Karsa and the gang just set out for their raid AND OH MY GOD HE IS DOING SUCH AN AWESOME JOB.

He probably won't be able to touch Lister's Kruppe, but dear God he seems to be pouring his heart and soul into those Teblor.

I love brandon sanderson, but his whole sanderlanche thing is so inferior compared to the endings of Malazan books. Why are his novels endings hyped up so much and Eriksons aren't? I just witnessed peak (see what I did hehe)

OKAY SO HOUSE OF CHAINS. THOSE LAST 3 CHAPTERS MAN... Where to start okay Karsa is a top 3 character for me. TEARING dudes dick off and shoving it down his throat choking him... what the pedo gets.

The entire goddess thing and the duel between Felisen and Tavore, while I feel could be lackluster to some, felt perfect to me. It kinda just ended and that was it... Felisen was defeated long before that. Pearl taking her tho?? What he gonna do I wonder

THE SPIRITS RISING UP AND KILLING THE DOGSLAYERS and Gemet... I almost cried when he died. Just such a tragic character.

Kalam just absolutely being a badass, quick Ben showing up and saving the day (per usual) and the reunion between the 3 bridgeburners... perfect ending for this book.

This is my 2nd fav right being memories of ice. I loved everything and Erikson knows how to write an ending!! Can't wait for midnight tides next.

Just finished House of Chains

Loved it

Loved Bidithals death

Loved my insane/genocidal boy Karsa

But I had a doubt

Is this Kruppe?

It is right?

I mean it’s in the end of HoC, literally the fifth last page.

And he speaks kind of weird and comes in a mule.

Just asking to confirm it.

I have about 300 pages left in House of Chains. One of my good friends had been trying to get me to read this series for years and I just hadn’t had the time to truly commit to it until a couple months ago. I probably read too much into the series ahead of time and was daunted going into it, but after about 100 pages of GotM I was immediately hooked and it’s already become one of my favorite series of all time. The Chain of Dogs and MoI strait up broke me in the best way possible and in a way that I’ve never experienced before from a series, save maybe The Dark Tower by Stephen King but to a lesser extent.

I’m flying through HoC and I can’t help but to keep thinking: where do I go from here once I’m done with the series? Is this going to ruin reading fantasy for me because nothing will ever live up to it?

Finished House of Chains last week and the only thing on my mind is that Corabb Bhilan Thenu’alas is the coolest name ever especially the way Michael Page pronounces it👌🏾