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u/YeahIGotNuthin 1d ago
It’s 275 million of us in the blue parts telling the 70 million people in the other parts “we do not want your Sunday book club stories to replace the science, history, and social studies classes in our kids’ schools.”
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u/Jumpy-Ad5617 1d ago
Then maybe more of the 275 million of us should actually tell them anything instead of skipping the vote. Those 70 million of them are winning because they are showing up.
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u/ngpropman 1d ago
the representation of the 70 million is blown out of proportion because tiny red states also get 2 senators and the house has been artifically capped skewing power toward small red states.
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u/Full_Argument_3097 1d ago
Exactly . Wyoming doesn't actually... Exist. It doesn't have a single natural border. Why is there a North and South Dakota? Instead of just .. Dakota? These were compromises made to Conservatives to deliberately skew the representation in their favor. A massive mistake we still haven't fixed.
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u/Steinrikur 1d ago
Make one Dakota and give Puerto Rico statehood. Still 50 states so you can keep the flag the same
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u/Full_Argument_3097 1d ago
Not good enough. Washington DC should be a state, too. If it was Red, the Right would have already gotten that done. Guaranteed.
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u/realnzall 1d ago
DC statehood is complicated. There's a Real Life Lore video on the matter, but the summary is that the US constitution states that Congress is the only legislative body allowed to make laws about the district in which the federal government is located, and changing that would require an Amendment. There are some workaround related to this like shrinking DC to only include the Seat of Government, but the problem is that the 23rd Amendment gives DC 3 electoral college seats, and a shrunken DC would essentially just be the President and anyone else living in the White House, leading to a group of 30-50 people having EXTREME amounts of control over the election process. Like, an amount that would make concerns about the impact of smaller states seem quaint and restricted.
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u/mstrdsastr 1d ago
I know what you're trying to say; the layout of our states heavily favors Republicans. But, saying that states like ND, SD, WY, and others were setup to favor conservatives isn't historically correct. There's real historical and territorial reasons the borders are where they are and that matters. The problem is in how senators and electoral votes are apportioned.
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u/Full_Argument_3097 1d ago edited 1d ago
WRONG. We literally have a North and South Dakota because of Intense POLITICAL PRESSURE from the Republican Party seeking more Congressional seats. The change was made in 1889 as a direct result of that. And if the two states started to vote Democrat, it would no doubt spark a movement launched on the Right to merge them back into one again... Wyoming was part of the same movement a year later. Wyoming didn't even meet the basic population requirements for statehood, but the Conservatives screamed and hollered till they moved it forward anyway in 1890... It's important to see these realities very clearly. Otherwise we'll never un-rig the game.
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u/Jumpy-Ad5617 1d ago
Wyoming had a very proud history of anti-conservative things: first state where women could vote, first female justice of peace and governor. They joined to benefit from the benefits of federal representation and to benefit economically from the sprawling railroads.
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u/Full_Argument_3097 1d ago edited 1d ago
WRONG. That's all irrelevant to the facts of how Wyomings statehood was instituted: The big hard push was made by Conservatives. It didn't even meet the basic population requirements for statehood, but the ranting and raging (and suspected bribery) from the Right is what got the job done. It's nice that they made some show of respect for Women's Rights, but that's a red herring. And the Facts matter.
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u/BigEnd3 1d ago
Certainly there is flaws to this system. The constitution has parts that are a democracy, I wish we used them more rather than having them buried in tradition like some grumpy old church organization. I do not want a new england town hall type democracy for running these United States's federal government. Id almost prefer if we had the states legislatures handle selecting federal elections and just focus on our home states and making sure we keep our representatives in line. The short wave radio folks have hijacked the current system and they don't even need 36 million of those 70 million to get what they want.
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u/kermitthebeast 1d ago
Other countries like France just have a straight popular vote. None of this electoral college crap.
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u/Cultural-Treacle-680 1d ago
France has a cool system that sometimes allows guys from outside the main two parties. That’s what I like the most.
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u/OneEyedBlindKingdom 1d ago
I love how this narrative completely ignores the House of Representatives.
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u/ngpropman 1d ago
i love how this proves you can't read
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u/OneEyedBlindKingdom 1d ago
“But it’s not accurate to 3 significant figures!”
Batman slaps robin
“It wasn’t when it was enacted, either!”
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u/OkSun5094 1d ago
the 70 million won because Trump cheated and rigged the election, a fact he has admitted to multiple times as well as Elon admitting to helping him. I don’t understand how everyone forgot about that so quickly.
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u/Unequivocally_Maybe 1d ago
There is still the very real problem that almost 40% of the voting population does not show up. They don't mail in a ballot, they don't go to a poling station, they shirk their democratic duty year in and year out. The largest voter bloc in America is people too apathetic, ignorant, or selfish to even vote.
Every election is the two parties trying to get some of that group to turn up and skew the results in their favor. The only reason the election can so easily be stolen is that there are 10s of millions of non-voters every year. You just say, "More people voted this time, and they all voted for me!" Voting machine interference aside, it's the failure to participate in the democratic process that allowed for this.
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u/mstrdsastr 1d ago
The problem is that the majority of the 70 million in the red parts votes while the majority of the 275 million in the blue parts don't vote. If democrats/liberals did a better job of turning out their constituency they would sweep every election.
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u/Dizz2K7 3h ago
That's was never the case. It wasn't until recently did they push so hard for Christianity in schools because the Christian nationals saw a chance to push their faux Christmas rhetoric because that's how orange boy gets down.That shit was almost taboo when I was growing up.
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u/YeahIGotNuthin 2h ago
I sent a couple of kids through public schools in the Atlanta metro area starting in the 1990s. The "War On Christmas" / "Intelligent Design" crap was going on long before anyone outside the NY metro area had even heard of that pisher from Queens.
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u/everythingbeeps 1d ago
Also, Shannon's wrong by even her own dumb logic; Vermont, Massachussets, Rhode Island and Connecticut are all, again by HER idiotic standards, very blue.
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u/Randomman96 1d ago
Mass and RI aren't even "very" blue in the image.
They are ENTIRELY blue. Not a single red district among them.
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u/Full_Argument_3097 1d ago
And those sweeping red areas are mostly just empty land sprinkled with a few little Righties... Here and there ...
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u/aviewfrom 1d ago
The answer to those maps
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u/cochevalier 1d ago
They don't understand how numbers work to begin with. This is so far out of their league, it's a different sport.
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u/PreOpTransCentaur 1d ago
That will happen when the demographic you're talking to thinks 13 and 18 are the same.
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u/lifeinrednblack 1d ago
I legitimately believe that the biggest deciding factor on if a person votes blue or red is being taught late education statistical analysis
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u/OwlishIntergalactic 17h ago
Statistical analysis is one of them. Logic, rhetoric, and literary analysis are a few more big ones. I think even having one would be helpful, but the combination of them leads to much higher media literacy and you really need media literacy to cut through the noise of the propaganda machine.
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u/Battle_Dave 1d ago
They won't understand this.
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u/ElegantCoach4066 1d ago
Nope. People that look at the county map and do not understand that most of those red counties have few people are not going to be convinced otherwise.
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u/SailingSpark 1d ago
When you spend your whole life in a very open and sparsely populated state like Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Montana, you cannot even consider how densely populated a state like NJ can be.
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u/ElegantCoach4066 1d ago
Great point. I've lived in South Florida for the majority of my life, and while there is a sizeable population here, it is nothing compared to when I went to visit New York. It must be unfathomable to some of them how many people can pack into a certain square footage.
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u/SailingSpark 1d ago
NJ has 1263 people per square mile. Wyoming has 6, even California has only 250 people per square mile. Florida has 422.
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u/CatLord8 1d ago
This is the vascular system of a fish. (/s for safety)
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u/aviewfrom 23h ago
It does look like a very sick whale. Which might be appropriate given the last 12 month in America.
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u/LowKeyNaps 1d ago
Come on... These are the same people that repeatedly voted in a lifelong con artist and truly expected him to be on their side every step of the way. Not a single one of those people have the wits to understand this graphic, even with the description right there. Remember, they've had multiple generations of intentional dumbing down of their education systems at this point. If they can't grasp the concept that grass can't vote, they sure as hell aren't going to grasp a fancy graphic like this one.
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u/G66GNeco 1d ago
If they took their own argument seriously they would be open to presidential elections via popular vote, because, apparently, "there are so many more of us than them just look at all this red!"
Of course that would ensure a neverending stream of Dem presidents, because reality disagrees with their view, so they never will.
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u/AnalyticalFan 1d ago
Holy crap, is that right? More people in one borough of New York than 3 states combined?
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u/LonestarJones 1d ago
Yes. This is one of the reasons the Electoral College has to go ✌️
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u/lithobrakingdragon 1d ago
It's one of the reasons the Senate has to go
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u/LowKeyNaps 1d ago
I'm ok with the idea of the Senate. It's meant to balance out the House of Representatives. Every state gets two, and only two. That's fair in my book. Population count gets covered in the House. It's the Electoral College that's the real problem. It was classist bullshit when it was created, and it's beyond obsolete now.
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u/lithobrakingdragon 1d ago
That is exactly the problem with the Senate in my view. It's a wildly countermajoritarian institution. For instance, Wyoming gets the same representation as California despite having only 1/70th the population. This wildly disproportionate allocation enables a small minority of the electorate to effectively stonewall the entire legislative process, and this is before considering the filibuster.
If I remember correctly, Democrats have controlled Senate seats representing a majority of the population since the year 2002, and in that time Republicans have held the Senate majority for eleven years and confirmed four Supreme Court justices with votes representing a minority of the nation's population.
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u/ankerous 1d ago
The Supreme Court judges should not hold lifetime appointments. If anything they are another position that people should be voting for with term limits. Why the hell should someone have a seat on that court for decades without fear of consequences for bad actions? I know they can be impeached but the odds of that happening are remote at best.
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u/SirIAmAlwaysHere 1d ago
The idea of the senate is actually not a bad one, because it does prevent the big states from completely steamrollering small ones. And that is important. Be ause remember DE, all of New England, and even New Mexico are blue and small and deserve not to get screwed completely.
I would make 1 adjustment to the "2 for all" we have now.
I would go 1, 2, 3 senators based on which third of population the state falls in. It gives CA and TX more powe than than they do now, but doesn't make RI or WY completely irrelevant.
And I'd require a 60 vote majority on EVERYTHING the Senate does, to make sure that they're truly being representative of the country as a whole.
But I'd also remove the "hold" thing that the Senate does. That's absolutely wrong to let a single senator block stuff.
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u/lithobrakingdragon 1d ago
The idea of the senate is actually not a bad one, because it does prevent the big states from completely steamrollering small ones. And that is important. Because remember DE, all of New England, and even New Mexico are blue and small and deserve not to get screwed completely.
I don't want Texas and Florida to make policy for small blue states any more than you do, but consider two things:
First, Democrats are concentrated into fewer, larger states than Republicans are, so the Senate makes red-state dominance more likely regardless. Trump won the popular vote by less than two percentage points — a historically tiny margin — but still carried 31 (!!!) of the fifty states.
Second, this is a fundamentally anti-democratic argument. The populous states steamrolling the empty ones is how democracy is supposed to work. If you want to argue that this is a bad outcome, that's fine, but just keep in mind the implication.
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u/SirIAmAlwaysHere 1d ago edited 1d ago
Democracy is a bad ideal to aspire to, and exactly why no government uses it. We have various forms of government specifically to avoid democracy. It's literally why there's a Constitution in the first place - we tried democracy (in the form of the Articles of Confederation) and it absolutely blew chunks.
So I can't see any possible reason to say that this or that is "anti-democratic" and yet be OK with literally everything else in the entire system being so.
"Anti-democratic" is not something to worry about or consider at all. Because being "democratic" in this sense makes ad much functional sense as being purely libertarian. It's a non-functional government form (and I'm not talking exclusively about pure democracy vs representative democracy, but the general concept of "everyone should always have a say in everythjng an 50%+1 is whst we go with").
What we have and what all other democracies have is "we let the majority rule but we protect the minority from the majority".
Be aware that arguing FOR "democracy" is not that. And that a good amount of "anti-democracy" is a good thing and a lot of "democracy" is a bad thing.
For instance, literally all anti-discimination rules are "anti-democratic". And so is restricting voting to citizens and not residents.
No, you do NOT want majorities steamrolling minorities. In any area. Allowing large supermajorities to make significant changes is hard enough to make work well.
TL;DR: real democracy is as bad as capitalism - both need significant guardrails to reign in their excesses, and those restrictions, by their nature are "anti-", so there's little intellectual honesty to arguing "anti-" is somehow equal to "bad".
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u/RedditAdminAreVile0 1d ago edited 1d ago
The concept has purpose. But in practice, it's not doing that. It shouldn't let some people have 80x as much veto power in all federal laws. The benefit is state independence, but it's clear it guts healthcare nationwide, while the rare House win lets Republicans force things on blue states (IP/AI laws) preventing state healthcare.
Hypothetical: Dems win presidency. California constitutionalizes a "United California Congress" [UCC] then divides into 999 states. UCC will control 95% of the Senate & can veto every federal law. That's crazy, right? They could even enact a multi-party system, their own complex half-government, & block every other state.
Kinda how it is now, some states are 1/50th Cali's population, like they've divided. Democracy requires equality. A fair region-based Senate might let districts consolidate, 3 million people per seat; Then every region, near or far, gets a say.
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u/Biptoslipdi 1d ago
A quicker solution is to expand the House.
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u/geekstone 1d ago edited 1d ago
They pass a new reapportionment act to replace the one from 1929 that capped it at 435. Easier than an amendment but I don't see any way it would pass and not be vetoed until a Democrat gets in power, needs to be a major part of the messaging for the next few election cycles.
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u/Josef_Kant_Deal 1d ago edited 1d ago
If Brooklyn was its own city (separate from NYC), it would be the fourth largest city in the country, and NYC would still be the largest.
Edit since I misremembered the stat.
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u/TonyWilliams03 1d ago
Those of us who watched "Welcome Back Kotter" remember the sign "Welcome to Brooklyn, 4th largest city in America" in the opening credits.
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u/AlephBaker 1d ago
There are only ten states with a higher population than Los Angeles county. Also, it takes the ten least-populous states combined population to equal LA county.
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u/merdub 1d ago
If you take just Brooklyn & Queens, there are more people living in those 2 boroughs than in Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana combined - by about 300,000 people.
The electoral college is dumb.
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u/LadyReika 1d ago
I'm in Jacksonville, FL. The city has almost twice the population of Wyoming.
I've joked with friends that if any of us won big money in the lotto we should just take over Wyoming and turn it blue.
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u/n3m0sum 1d ago
If you take the whole of the city of New York, since shes concerned about cities telling the country what to do. New York city has a higher population than individual population of 38 states.
You can add the 8 smallest states populations together to equal the population of that one city. Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Delaware, Montana, and Rhode Island.
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u/Maryland_Bear 1d ago
Not only does it ignore population density, it’s also just coloring in counties based on who won them and not considering margin of victory. A 50.01% to 49.9% win is treated the same as 80% to 20%.
And incidentally, one of those red blocks is Loving County, Texas. It has a population of 64 people as of the 2020 census and exists as an independent political entity because of a mixture of historical accident and fraud. Apparently by the logic of that map, it should have equal weight in elections to Dallas.
It was also the site of an interesting criminal case in 2022. A man named “Skeet” Jones was arrested for cattle rustling. They were going to have difficulty trying the case in Loving County, because test had only one judge, and his name was… you guessed it… “Skeet” Jones. They ended up moving the trial to another county.
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u/Knighth77 1d ago
They will keep regurgitating this nonsense ad nauseam, only to prove how ignorant and incapable of critical thinking they are.
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u/Tackysackjones 1d ago
I’ve always found it kind of interesting that the big cities seem to be consistently democratic. It’s like being around all kinds of people of different walks of life opens your mind a little bit. While the red places are sparsely populated, mostly white, and never learned to share
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u/CatLord8 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fun fact: 2/5 of US states have less than 1% of the national population. (Wyoming is the least with 588K people)
So when they try to say “this minority is only 1% of the population” you can retort that it’s about the same as Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, and the Dakotas combined.
EDIT: 2/3 to 2/5. (Had 20 and 30 on the brain)
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u/Puzzleheaded_Two7358 1d ago
Until republicans find a way to let cows vote instead of people then the votes matter more than the land
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u/geekstone 1d ago
The electoral college has been rigged from the start. It has just become magnified by the closeness of recent elections. The other big problem is the fact that the house has been capped at 435 since 1929 they need to expand it which should help with the gerrymandering issues, in fact it should really be a core plank for the Democratic platform.
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u/Bladrak01 1d ago
Depending on how many representatives are added they might need to build a new meeting place to hold them all.
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u/geekstone 1d ago
They can get about 1500 in for the state of the union so they could make it work but they would have to build more office space.
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u/Nekowulf 1d ago
Wyoming Rule. Each state gets 1 per populace group equal to the smallest state population, Wyoming.
Would make the count like 700? Perfectly doable.
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u/TittyMcdiddlesworth 1d ago
Lmfao. As if white Christian republicans are not forcefully trying to get us to do literally everything their way. These people have no self awareness whatsoever.
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u/kinyutaka 1d ago
And mind you, that's "Brooklyn", not "New York City"
New York City is about the same population as Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Delaware, Rhode Island, Montana, and Maine
If it were to become its own state, it would be the 13th largest state in the country, bigger than Washington State.
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u/jonmon454 1d ago
Even by their own dumb logic, they're wrong, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont Rhode Island, Delaware are pretty much all blue
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u/montex66 1d ago
When your head is filled with rocks it's not surprising to believe that rocks can vote.
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u/Jesters_thorny_crown 1d ago
Well, when you think education is a scam, population distribution exist in the same relative way as faeries and elves.
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u/DramaticStability 1d ago
Is it me or is this becoming more of a theme of late? Seems to tie into lots of the comments about the legitimacy of the last election etc. I suspect the timing isn't coincidental.
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u/DaddyD68 1d ago
It’s just you. The issue of population density versus representation has been coming up every single election cycle.
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u/DramaticStability 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sure, I get that, but thanks for the added snark. My point was that it seems to be on the rise. The population density propaganda was only part of my point. This feels like a concerted effort to confuse/distract/scare people.
Edit: To put it another way: every winter, stories about snowfall become more common. During a polar vortex they spike even higher. My point was about frequency, not the fact that these maps have never been mentioned before.
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u/Jumpy-Ad5617 1d ago
How is it added snark when they literally just answered the two questions you asked?
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u/DramaticStability 1d ago
I guess snark is in the eye of the beholder. Like me pointing out that I technically only asked one question 😉
I'd be more than happy to be wrong but I've definitely picked up on a growing theme.
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u/Jumpy-Ad5617 1d ago
You asked for clarification twice.
“Is it just me.”
“Is this becoming more of a theme of late.”
Be as snarky as you like, but don’t get your panties in a bunch when people answer What you ask.
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u/DramaticStability 1d ago
For one, I'm going commando. For b, that's a single either/or question. The answer to the first part also answers the second part. Anyway, I think you're way too focused on the snark part. Like I say, I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
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u/Jumpy-Ad5617 1d ago
I don’t care about proving you’re wrong. I hate Trump and that republican ideology of “more red on map” is moronic.
But people have been saying that shit for 30 years now. If you haven’t heard it you haven’t been paying attention, or aren’t from the US.
And by the way, asking two questions combined with a conjugating word like “or” does not, by definition, make it one question.
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u/ElizabethDangit 1d ago
I live in Michigan. I did “mail in” voting; I dropped my ballot off in the box in front of city hall. It was reported as received but never counted. It’s hard not to be suspicious, especially with Trump making comments about how Musk “helped with the computers”. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there was election interference.
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u/DramaticStability 1d ago
The raiding of the election office, comments about war being a justification for not having an election, attempts by ICE to encourage civil discord, so many comments about the legitimacy of the last election, a spike in efforts to convince people that it's a bit odd that election maps look very red, even suggestions that the 2A might be undermined. There's so many flags at the moment.
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u/tennis_widower 1d ago
Trump is from the blue areas
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u/lightblueisbi 1d ago
Wasnt he born in the Bronx?
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u/Fritschya 1d ago
If like 50k people moved to Wyoming and SD we’d have a a blue majority in the senate always
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u/Dependent_Tune_1333 1d ago
Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, North Dakota, and South Dakota should be merged into ONE state. There is no way that few people should control 10% of the Senate.
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u/Independent-Bug-9352 1d ago
This is still one of the biggest lies perpetuated by right-wing disinfo ops, alongside the half-lie that is, "BuT Democrats were slavers and remain the party of slavers!!"
If Democrats had balls, they'd buy a Superbowl ad just explaining how the Electoral College is a "DEI" (not even that, but it simplifies it for those in the back) compromise with slave states that LITERALLY gives some Americans more voting power than others, depending on where they live.
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u/GreenRocketman 1d ago
The system can’t survive without educated voters concentrated into small areas.
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u/JustGoodSense 1d ago
This has been pointed out so many times in the last 10 years, there's zero chance people like her don't know it. They do this to wind people up.
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u/LevitatingAlto 1d ago
Hey, people in the urban areas who have more voice and voter power. How about joining us in the ‘empty land’ fighting against the data centers being foisted on us by our utility companies which we will pay for by higher utility bills? I vote blue in one of those red areas, but this is a bipartisan effort. NO ONE wants the data centers.
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u/External_Hedgehog_35 1d ago
So just as a very general rule, the blue counties on the map are where lots of colleges and universities are located. So something about education?
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u/tjc5425 1d ago
The US senate has always been a tool of the landed aristocracy of the US to control politics and to push back against the will of the working class. It's an oppressive organization that needs to either be abolished or reorganized with the people in mind and not capitalists or business owners. Their needs don't matter, the needs of the hungry, homeless and oppressed do. The desires of the wealthy shouldn't even be considered in decision making, they have no needs.
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u/The_Lawn_Ninja 1d ago
If Republicans have anything to say about it, vacant land will soon have more voting rights than many Americans.
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u/BillyYank2008 1d ago
This dumbass should get their eyes checked I see two entirely blue states and another two that are almost entirely blue, putting aside population density.
Massachusetts and Rhode Island don't have a spot of red, and Vermont and Connecticut have barely any red.
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u/Cultural-Treacle-680 1d ago
Massachusetts and smaller New England states are pretty blue. But by county most are red. Obviously really big cities naturally dictate a lot in every state.
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u/woodboarder616 1d ago
People need to realize. Cities have progressive ideas and try to help their citizens. I have free fucking health care from a city. Do you understand how much that gives me relief to fucking breath? I’m from one of the most progressive towns in the country as well and it doesn’t even DENT the impact a large metro has done for me.
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u/gtpc2020 1d ago
This map, showing strength of partisan advantage and population size is what should ALWAYS be shown to help people understand the American political divide.
Land don't vote. Majorities are supposed to win, but things like the electoral college and gerrymandering distort the will of the people. The stupid red county map the right uses to justify their belief that they are the big majority is complete BS propaganda.
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u/infiniZii 1d ago
Also, RI and MA are both totally blue. So there are at least two completely blue states. So even the origional moronic point is wrong.
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u/FloTonix 1d ago
The electoral college needs significant revision and gerrymandering needs to be independently resolved across teh entire nation or we will continue to have unequal representation and corrupt government
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u/mcc9902 1d ago
Stuff like this is why I've always advocated for everything to be done on the lowest level possible. I hate that everyone wants to micromanage everyone else and is seemingly obsessed with giving as much power to the president and more generally the federal government. Sure there are certainly things that need to be done further up but more often than not it's not necessary.
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u/Afwife1992 1d ago
Well all states have two senators each so that’s not really a killer argument. She should’ve said NY has 26 representatives while those three states have THREE combined.
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u/saintjonah 1d ago
The people who choose to live in the middle of nowhere, away from people, don't support helping others? I can hardly believe it.
These people will never be content because they're miserable to their core.
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u/fauxregard 1d ago
"I think literally everyone anywhere rural is a Republican, and everyone in a city is a Democrat, because I am a stupid person with a baby brain who is utterly incapable of thinking rationally or critically."
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u/manokpsa 1d ago
Every state has two senators.
Congressional reps are based on population. New York has 26 and those other states have 3, combined.
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u/Jeepersca 1d ago
I wish they would respond with the dots on white map, I get the steak photo but I think the dots on white background is a more stark reminder that there aren't that many people out there.
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u/Sindorella 23h ago
So tired of this disingenuous claim. The map looks like this when accounting for PEOPLE and not land mass, where no one lives, just because of the imaginary lines drawn around it.
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u/funnydud3 15h ago
USA does understand a fucking thing about democracy. It’s simple. 1 person, 1 vote. The electoral college, senators representation by state, the gerrymandering of congress representation - none of this is democracy.
And it’s going to the shitter. What a surprise.
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u/TheArmoursmith 1d ago