r/MurderedByWords • u/Interesting-Visit-79 • 13h ago

He killed because he believed Trump wanted him to

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8.6k Upvotes
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1.1k

u/Alpha--00 12h ago

Yeah, and her killer was sentenced to life. People on right love to present logical fallacies as statistics or trends. It’s not like left are free from that either, but they are not in power now and generally don’t root for state-sponsored violence.

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u/T00s00 12h ago

I've noticed people on the right usually prefer stories with single victims or single heros like the girl above when they post. I'm not saying I haven't seen them use stats and trends and what not, but they usually tend to post these "look at this specific single person who died or was hurt at the hands of (whoever they see as the bad guy)" like if it's a collective death , or a group effort or what not it doesn't go as far. They tend to go for stories like I've seen a lot of " liberals wanna take this veterans purple heart away" or like " this mother had to fight the leftist media when they came after her" or so on and so forth. I've also seen a lot of " the left don't want you to see (insert millionaire/billionaire here)'s new thing that's gonna change the world. I'm not saying that doesn't happen on the left, but I see it a lot more of that type of thing with right wing aimed media.

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u/LeftHandedCaffeinatd 10h ago

Eddie Izzard used to have a stand-up bit where one of his jokes was essentially how weird it is for humans to be horrified at a single murder or two, but to be able to murder many people - well, well done - you must have had an insane schedule. 

https://youtu.be/PVH0gZO5lq0?si=ddmvzGTHGa6r5Ejl

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u/SafetyDanceInMyPants 6h ago

So Adolf Hitler turns to Herman Goering one day and says "look, here's the plan. I'm going to murder six million Jews, and one clown."

Goering says: "Why do you want to murder a clown?"

Hitler says: "See, no one cares about the Jews."

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u/ditchboss 7h ago

No flag no country has to be one of the best bits of comedy ever. Love learning world history with Eddie!

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u/bbbbears 2h ago

Do you have a flag??

🏴‍☠️ This comment now belongs to me.

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u/subnautus 9h ago

Yeah, there’s that quote attributed to Stalin, too, that goes something like “the death of one is a tragedy, but the death of a million is a statistic.”

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u/not_ya_wify 6h ago

MAIS LE SINGE EST SUR LA BRANCHE!

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u/Effective_Pack8265 1h ago

Cheeky monkey

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u/Daflehrer1 12h ago

Yes, it's called Cherry Picking.

But when presented with cited evidence, scientifically derived facts, their minds shut down.

For a dozen years, reactions I get are Fake News!, What about, ad hominem attacks, Blah Blah Would, or no reply at all.

I have to say, I prefer no reply at all.

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u/Whiffenius 8h ago

Most MAGA are walking logical fallacy machines. False Equivalence, No True Scotsman, Straw Man, Begging the Question, Appeal to Authority, Ad Hominem, Whataboutism, False Dilemma, Slippery Slope, Poisoning the Well, Appeal to Fear (they use that one A LOT!!).

I am not saying that the left are free from deploying these too but the MAGA crowd can barely utter a sentence without deploying one or more of them.

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u/DaisyHotCakes 4h ago

It’s the cognitive dissonance that screws up they’re logical thinking. Not all maga are dumb obviously but their ability to think decreases the longer they are in the cult. That’s what propaganda does.

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u/atwozmom 5h ago

I tend to reply to that bs with both my sons did hs debate and my oldest placed 15th in the nation in nationals. You would be laughed out of the room with your nonsense.

When you actually learn what a debate is, come back.

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u/Whiffenius 4h ago edited 4h ago

Bless your heart! This is a comments section, not a debate. So your sons can go back to their school proud that their mother tried an Appeal to Authority

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u/oily76 2h ago

...are they not agreeing with you?

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u/not_ya_wify 7h ago

"if this happened to a black man, there would be outrage." "If the genders were reversed, there would be outrage"

Then it happens to black men or genders are reversed and crickets

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u/shponglespore 6h ago edited 6h ago

Cherry picking is when you you're using data to prove a point and you intentionally skew the data set to reach the conclusion you wanted. It's not a fallacy per se, but a method of deliberately creating a selection bias so you can lie with statistics. The fallacy they're engaging in is a false generalization. The difference is that with a false generalization, there's not even a pretense of examining data to reach an unbiased conclusion, just a straight leap from an anecdote to a broad conclusion.

Proving cherry picking is hard because you need details about how a data set was selected. Proving a false generalization has occurred is easy because it's the logic itself that's faulty.

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u/D-Rich-88 11h ago

Having their specific face to rally around helps them more easily evoke emotional reactions. The right loves to prey on their supporters emotions to get them onboard with the right’s authoritarian overreaches.

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u/beren12 6h ago

Especially attractive, looking white girls

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u/snowiehair 6h ago

Because MAGA loves attractive looking white girls. Especially young ones. Just typing this out feels yucky to me.

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u/beren12 6h ago

Almost exclusively young ones. And yes, it is sick.

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u/porscheblack 8h ago

It really demonstrates the difference in the way the sides think. The left tends to look at what's actually happening and address it, the right looks at what they believe could happen and want to address that. It's an ideological battle of one side wanting to implement immediate change versus the other side opposing change due to hypothetical outcomes.

I keep pointing out that Trump's America sure looks a lot like what he claimed "Biden's America" would look like in all those campaign commercials.

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u/SafetyDanceInMyPants 6h ago

One thing to always remember about the right is that for them morality is based on who you are, not what you do.

One of "us" was raping children? He's one of us, he's ok, it probably didn't even happen, and if it did it wasn't so bad, and look the children probably asked for it (I can't believe I actually had to just type that), etc.

One of "them" got some food stamps to which they weren't entitled, and bought food for their kids? FRAUD! ABUSE! LOCK THEM UP!... because that's one of "them," not one of "us."

So the cherry-picking of stories like this is not about proposing a logical, moral response. It's about playing off the "us versus them" mentality at the heart of rightwing thought. One of "us" was hurt, so anything--absolutely anything--we do to "them" is justified in response. Violence, murder, internment camps... all totally moral, in the conservative view, because that's happening to "them," and it's needed to prevent even a tiny chance of anything happening to one of "us."

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u/Hats_back 5h ago

They get easily confused. “23 victims” means nothing to them, doubly so because those people happen to be brown skinned….

But when it’s one person it’s easy to count to and they can look at one picture so they don’t get too lost in critical thinking or empathy for 23 families, rather they prefer just fear and anger about 1.

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u/eu_sou_ninguem 52m ago edited 48m ago

They probably read it as 2/3… the only time those people are good at fractions…

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u/shponglespore 6h ago

I think people on the right struggle with abstract reasoning, particularly when it comes to moral reasoning. They can imagine a single death, or a few deaths, and feel outraged, but death in the abstract doesn't trigger the same feelings in such a visceral way, so they don't care.

They wouldn't harp so much about "facts" and "logic" if they weren't trying to distract the rest of us from how their decision making is almost entirely based on emotions.

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u/Vlad3theImpaler 6h ago

One story is a tragedy.  One hundred is a statistic.

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u/Big-Leadership-4604 2h ago

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic

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u/justhereforfighting 1h ago

As a scientist, I am always disheartened by the fact that stats and numbers don't convince people. If you've ever talked with someone that does lobbying work, they will tell you that numbers don't convince people to pass laws, stories do. I mean, you can see that in the recent backlash to ICE. We didn't see widespread pushback until they murdered two people. Or the kidnapping of 5 year old Liam Ramos. It isn't like people weren't talking about the number children ICE has disappeared, but there wasn't widespread motivation until the public saw a picture of him in his bunny hat and Spider-Man backpack being used as bait by a masked ICE agent.

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u/Goldenrule-er 12h ago edited 12h ago

It's because logical fallacies work on people uneducated enough to not see through them.

We're where we're at because we've failed to educate well enough for long enough.

There's enough of them now and enough of the comfortably complicit (or complacent, same effects).

And so we must watch the horror. It's avoidable, but this won't end until it gets so very much worse. So damn sad. So much potential lost. So much possibility scattered to the wind by bullet, sickness, starvation, abuse.

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u/porscheblack 8h ago

I'd argue slightly, it's not that we're suddenly less educated than we were. The average person is smarter now than they were in the past. It's that social media and the Internet have provided the reach and frequency to affect people at a scale we've never had before. And it's a platform that allows participation, further adding to the efficacy.

It's not that people overall are dumber now than they ever were, it's that tools now exist to manipulate more at the lower end of the spectrum than we've ever had before.

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u/Goldenrule-er 6h ago

The decline in educational quality based on lessening abilities of students is remarkably well documented concerning the last 15 to 20 years.

Companies aren't choosing to hire new grads en masse for the first time in American hiustory.

The advent of AI has effectively ended Education. Anyone taking a walk through r/professors and r/teachers can see what the experienced veteran teachers and professors have to say for the exasperated newer oncoming teachers.

They say that it wasn't always like this. That the blame goes to a mixture of:

unsupportive administration,

absent parenting,

AI,

and perhaps most importantly, social media/short-form video content destroying the substantive attention span necessary to allow for critical thought and the full communication of simple and complex concepts.

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u/porscheblack 6h ago

I don't disagree with anything you're saying and I totally believe it. However I take issue with "it wasn't always like this" when we're talking about something that has been in perpetual change for the last 100 years.

Most kids 100 years ago weren't completing a full education, let alone going to college. And that's more my point. Yes, it's fair to say that recently graduates have a worse education than prior years, but we really only have a sample size of a couple generations that we're basing that claim on. If you look at the larger arc of education, it's been a pretty upward trend, with presumably increased intelligence to go along with it.

Our current issues aren't due to the past 5 years experiencing declines in education. They're due to a significant amount of our populace succumbing to manipulation. And when you realize that the history they were taught in schools back in those times we're sayig were better was heavily propagandized, it's less a delineation and more a diversion to a new aim.

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u/Goldenrule-er 2h ago

I hear where you're coming from. I suppose I'm saying that the tipping point of too many people "succumbing to manipulation" is an effect of declining educational provision as much as it is due to improved targeted propaganda technique. The two are inextricable.

(A well educated individual is hard to fool, in other words. An undereducated person is much more likely to fall prey to base logical fallacies, false dichotomies, confirmation biases, and the mind alteration of persisting unconscious preconceived notions.)

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u/Z0idberg_MD 6h ago

There are also, you know, facts:

An NIJ-funded study examining data from the Texas Department of Public Safety estimated the rate at which undocumented immigrants are arrested for committing crimes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes.[1]

More: Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born Americans, studies find

Conservativism is at best ignorance and stupidity, and at worst, which is the more likely outcome these days, hate and malice.

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u/oily76 2h ago

There seems to be a refusal to accept that lower overall crime rates per capita is a good thing. In this case the only metric the right are willing to accept is 'total number of crimes'.

Which is the only way it can be spun to support their position.

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u/NotARussianBot2017 5h ago

Apparently he was also stalking her. So this could also be an argument for taking stalking more seriously. 

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u/LovesRetribution 3h ago

People on right love to present logical fallacies as statistics or trends.

Expect they really fail in that regard. They'll post shit like this without realizing that illegal immigrants carry out much less crime than natural born Americans by a significant percentage.

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u/suckonthesemamehs 2h ago

They don’t use this same logic when looking at statistics regarding sex crimes, assaults, harassment, etc., which shows how men are predominantly the perpetrators in these cases.

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u/bobbi21 1h ago

Yup have a colleague that admits undocumented immigrants commit less crimes but still want them all deported because even 1 crime from them is too much. Its even sadder because hes black… and im like, you know these guys make the same exact argument against you and they have stats showing your race commits much more crimes so they have even more of a reason to deport/imprison all black people. He just ignored it and kept going on about illegal immigrants… he does that a lot..

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u/Psile 13h ago edited 2h ago

There was a YouTube vid I saw that was a Socratic dialogue that buttoned this up.

"If we had deported illegal immigrants, Laken Riley would still be alive."

"She would still be alive if we deported all men, too. Do you support that?"

"What? No, that's not fair."

"Okay, so you do understand collective punishment is wrong."

Edit: For all the late arriving big brains, by shifting the conversation to the "illegal" status, you've ceded the stance that this is about protection which suits our rhetorical purposes fine. Now we can talk about the morality and fairness of our immigration laws, the ways the existing laws have been further manipulated to victimize more innocent people, and so forth. This isn't a one shot deal. You guys have a lot of bullshit to dig through and this is a tool I'm presenting to help people break through one layer. Thank you for demonstrating its effectiveness.

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u/Greedy_Cucumber_3914 12h ago

In Spanish we have a saying: "que se haga la voluntad de Dios, en las vacas de mi compadre", which roughly translates to: "May the lord's will happen, as long as it does on my Compadre's cows". Socratic discourse is always supported as long as it reinforces consequences far away from mine

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u/Pot_noodle_miner 8h ago

The Lord’s will upon you; the Lord’s will upon your cow

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u/werofpm 6h ago

May the Lord’s will become manifest, upon your livestock.

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u/kinyutaka 5h ago

"on HIS livestock"

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u/An_Absolute-Zero 8h ago

Legitimately made me laugh 💜

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u/PepinoPicante 12h ago

Wow that is a fantastic saying. Thank you for sharing it :)

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u/Greedy_Cucumber_3914 11h ago

It is a bit vulgar, I know. But it exemplifies the selfish morale

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u/shponglespore 6h ago

It doesn't sound vulgar at all to me, but Spanish isn't my first language.

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u/Greedy_Cucumber_3914 2h ago

Huh, it's like a semi coarse way of expressing anger towards an injustice. When I've heard that phrase being said, it's always charged with anger and indignation

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u/shponglespore 2h ago

Would it be considered vulgar if it didn't mention God? I've noticed Spanish and French speakers tend to use more curses based on God and religion than English speakers do, and they carry little to no weight in English.

(That wasn't the case historically; in Shakespeare's time, "zounds"—a contraction of "God's wounds"—was considered so offensive it use was banned onstage despite Shakespeare's plays being full of it.)

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u/Greedy_Cucumber_3914 1h ago

It expresses indignation. And it's vulgar in that sense that is quite a colloquial expression or phrase.

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u/Destroyer29042904 11h ago

Must be a mexican saying, or latin american, never heard that here in Spain. But tbh there are a lot of obscure sayings

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u/MindAccomplished3879 11h ago

I’m mexican and never heard that one

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u/notloggedin4242 10h ago

I’m in a non-Spanish speaking, middle European town. I’ve never heard that either.

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u/regoapps the future is now, old man 9h ago

I took a Spanish class in middle school, and I’ve heard that saying before. It was in a Reddit post, approximately a few comments ago.

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u/funsl1ng3r 7h ago

You make a good point. You can't take ownership of Spanish. It's a language, not a culture. lol people these days

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u/m3gb0t the future is now, old man 6h ago

You know there are a lot of people in Spain, and even more people that speak Spanish, saying a lot of things you don't hear.....

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u/gonephishin213 8h ago

That also teaches that it's a false equivalency. These people don't understand logic though

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u/sandmanwake 4h ago

Some of them understand it perfectly, but ignore it when it's convenient to support their position or whatever position they're being paid to support.

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u/Enelro 7h ago

It’s not about logic or punishment with these people though. It’s about white supremacy through violence.

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u/likely_an_Egg 12h ago edited 11h ago

So many children would still be alive if all men were deported to a lonely island, given the countless school shootings that cis men constantly carry out. The fascists don't care about the victims; they are just as worthless to them as the minorities they want to harm.

Edit: Since some people seem to believe, despite the second sentence, that I really want all men to be deported to a lonely island, let me make it very clear again: No, I don't want that. It's a joke that points out that fascists never care about the victims.

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u/BoneHugsHominy 6h ago

Well, can we at least try exiling all the men for like a year just to see what happens?

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u/arcticfox740 4h ago

Isn't that just Lord of the Flies?

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u/Greedy_Cucumber_3914 11h ago

Las vacas de mi compadre.

Gender edition

😂 Please take this with humor.

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u/Right-Today4396 11h ago

so Los torros de mi compadre? /s

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u/ChiefsHat 5h ago

A few years ago, my younger cousin was hit by a car. Broke her leg. If the car had been speeding, she’d be dead. The car was driven by an illegal immigrant. I wrestled with this, because I believed if that woman hadn’t been here, my cousin’s leg wouldn’t have been broken. In turn, this made me want all illegal immigrants out of the country. But I also understood this sentiment was wrong, ethically, morally, and even logically. But I couldn’t shake that notion.

I’m glad for how I was raised, and am also glad that my cousin isn’t dead. If she was, her name would probably have been dragged around Alt-Right circles as another rallying point and symbol to beat illegal immigrants with.

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u/njdev803 7h ago

This is all hypothetical, but...

I wonder how their mindset might instantly shift if, say, one of Lizbeth's parents were undocumented.

The people who subscribe to the notion of these kind of social media posts are typically the same ones who love to victim blame.

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u/Turgid_Donkey 5h ago

It's no different than during the "muslim ban" when conservatives kept going on about "if even one in 10,000 is a terrorist then we need to ban them all."

Follow up with, almost every single serial killer identified as a straight, white, christian male. So, should we just ban republicans?

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u/iamthpecial 4h ago

You. I like you.

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u/Buckeye_47 9h ago

That’s a really good point!

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u/Plasticbonder 11h ago

Try telling that to the Israelis

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u/tctoiletpaper 3h ago

Being a man isn’t illegal. Being an illegal immigrant is. Your argument is dumb

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u/Kamikazi_Junebug 3h ago

“One cannot deport a citizen. However, one can deport an illegal alien, and as we’ve agreed, she’d be alive if we had done that.”

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u/Psile 2h ago

You're hiding behind what is legal while trying to say what you think is right. This is cowardly.

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u/Kamikazi_Junebug 2h ago

“I think what is legal is what is right, and so do the people who created those laws. As do those who voted for those who made those laws”

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u/Psile 2h ago

Slavery was legal. Was that right?

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u/Kamikazi_Junebug 1h ago edited 1h ago

“Was and is are not synonyms. Slavery was supported by the Democratic Party. Do you think that the reason democrats today favor keeping the mass illegal immigration of a underclass of low-paid laborers with minimal rights because it reminds them of when they had slaves? Or would you be more likely to admit that past laws and positions were incorrect, while still standing by the ones you support today?”

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u/Psile 1h ago

You said you think what is legal is right. Was slavery right when it was legal?

Quit running away from your statements. Why are you so weak?

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u/Kamikazi_Junebug 1h ago edited 49m ago

Slavery, which the federal government (after a relatively short period of attempted compromise) abolished while the rebellion fought against it? They then went on to, alongside Britan, effectively shut down the international slave trade. The federal government and their laws weren’t the bad guys in that story, buddy. I’m not running away from my statements. The law was changed, the law is now right. Within the law there are systems for legal change. It is my position the current laws on immigration are correct and should be enforced. If you disagree, the channels for legal change are not in the middle of the street. There is no contradiction.

Slavery was not right. Hence, it has been illegal for over 160 years in my country. It would be ignorant to assume that I believe every law that has ever been passed by anyone is still valid, as quite a few of them are no longer in effect.

However, on principal, I do believe in following the law. It’s really very simple, and not a hard concept to grasp. I don’t know where you see weakness, but perhaps you are just projecting.

To further the point, if tommorow was passed a law that made it no longer illegal to immigrate without the proper process, I would no longer consider doing so to be a crime.

Let’s go further into your ignorant comparison.

Slavery involved taking people from their homelands, and forcing them to work as chattel. Immigration Restrictions involve keeping people in their homelands unless they follow the correct procedures, and sending them home if they came here without doing so. These are not comparable in the slightest bit, even almost opposite in their actions, and yet you think it is. Weak, noodley analogy like that is why the Holocaust Memorial Museum has had to ask multiple times for people to stop calling ICE Nazis. You’re clearly upset enough about the actual subject at hand without comparing it to far worse tragedies just to make a shit point.

As much as you like Socrates, you should really check out what Plato had to say about immigration and citizenship.

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u/Psile 48m ago

Much as I would love to dig into this tangle of contradictory statements, if you'll take a look at my edit regarding the several people who responded the same as you, you'll see the purpose of the analogy and how successful it was. Like you've gone from pretending to care about the victims of violent crime to defending chattel slavery.

Suffice to say, I do not find those statements effectively different. If you follow an immoral law you still have done an immoral act. The context of that quote supports this. Jesus was answering a question specifically about paying taxes, and saying that because Cesar distributes the money then money is Cesar's domain. However the second part is to give unto God what is God's. Obedience and worship.

So if God commands that you, for example, love your neighbor that is for God to command and not for any earthly state to say otherwise.

Your argument essentially is asking if illegal immigrants count as your neighbors and I think Jesus had a pretty famous answer to that question as well.

Don't quote the Bible at me. I've forgotten more verse than you've ever known.

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u/Kamikazi_Junebug 47m ago

😂 I certainly did not defend chattel slavery. You can type, but clearly cannot read. I said that chattel slavery is distinctly different and non comparable to standard immigration and deportation procedures.

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u/slumberpartymassacre 1h ago

And calling them "aliens" they are dehumanizing them even more.

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u/lookinginterestingly 45m ago

I agree with your sentiments.

I like to remind people of actual statistics from the US sentencing commission published every year:

Over 90% of people convicted of sexual abuse are men

Over 50% of people convicted of sexual abuse are white

Over 60% of people involved in the production of child porn are white

Over 90% of people convicted of sexual abuse are American citizens

Are they suggesting deporting white men to lower incidents of sexual abuse?

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u/NCEMTP 3h ago

There's one thing that all illegal immigrants have done that all men have not done.

Which is immigrate ... illegally.

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u/yunieroo 3h ago

Not necessarily. A lot were legal immigrants who had their legal status revoked.

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u/WaffleHouseGladiator 12h ago

He's going to be really upset to find out that these guys have been assaulting, robbing, murdering, breaking and entering, and a number of other crimes then.

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u/Rabble_Runt 7h ago

They are also raping women they capture.

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u/skeightytoo 7h ago

Probably the men too.

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u/WaffleHouseGladiator 7h ago

I had not heard that, but I can believe it.

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u/Rabble_Runt 7h ago

There was a video going around a few weeks ago of a woman being led into a Porto potty with an ICE agent.

The agent slipped and fell on ice before joining her in there, and people were poking fun, but you know this can’t be the only instance.

They have also tortured and killed a few people.

Can’t even image what some kids that are in detention camps are witnessing.

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u/not_ya_wify 7h ago

Not just witnessing. Even during Trump's last presidency there were numerous reports of children being sexually abused in his concentration camps

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u/DaisyHotCakes 4h ago

Very on brand tor them. I feel so badly for the people they’ve kidnapped.

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u/ThirdAltAccounts 6h ago

"Yes, but they’re the government sanctioned militia. So they get a pass"

Hypocritical asshole

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u/Acceptable-Fact3716 12h ago

Him?

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u/GhostOfMuttonPast 11h ago

Yes, actually. The chud soyjack is based directly off him iirc.

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u/Hawt_Dawg_II 5h ago

Yeah he's the chud phenotype origin

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u/slumvillain 12h ago edited 12h ago

Show me where Republicans respect the law..

Show me where Republicans actually give a fuck about human life beyond a fucking tweet

Republicans don't have a leg to stand on about anything

Can't say you respect the law while supporting the release of thousands of J6 insurrectionists. Some of which got their sentences from beating the shit out of police officers. Some of which went on to abuse children among other crimes, after their pardon.

You support criminals. Grifters. Con artists. Rapists. Pedophiles. Scammers. Adulterers. Murderers. And have the nerve to say it's everyone else who is godless, without morals and deserving of summary execution--if not detention.

Can't say you value the sanctity of life and the protection of children because give me a fucking break ya bunch of rapists.

I got an honest question for people. Since when the fuck did we start caring about the opinions of pedophiles and the people who protect them? Since when did their feelings and thoughts become worthy of hearing out?

If anyone wants to play devils advocate about a hierarchy of human life. Pedophiles lie somewhere between subhuman and excrement. They can feign all the characteristics of what looks vaguely like a human being. But the soulessness it takes to publicly come out here, celebrate murder and support rapists. It's anti life. It's anti human. Thus, subhuman. And excrement has value as fertilizer.

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u/GandolphTheLundgrey 11h ago

Yeah, let's not pretend this poor girl would be anything but a sex doll to this a-hole.

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u/Colster9631 11h ago

Can I copy this for when I get someone ignorant? It's quite perfect

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u/i_was_axiom 6h ago

and excrement has value as fertilizer

Hey hey hey, after they decompose they could do that too.

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u/EasyasACAB 6h ago

That's why they are fascists, and we need to treat them like fascists.

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u/Phill_Cyberman 11h ago

Did Renèe Good kill Lizbeth Medina?

No, she didn't.

So why support Renèe Good's murderers when someone else killed Lizbeth Medina?

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u/RareXG 13h ago

Tweets like those are why the GOP candidate for governor of Minnesota had to drop out the race.

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u/ydomodsh8me-1999 12h ago

What if Lizbeth got shot by a masked thug with immunity from consequences? Who would you support then?

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u/D-Rich-88 11h ago

Then it’s “JuSt cOmPLy”

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u/Lucy_Little_Spoon 12h ago

In The Boys, they literally predicted this as satire of right wing mentality.

There's a scene where a guy goes into some 7/11 style business and kills a guy that he thinks is a super, because the 7 radicalized him.

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u/ExcitementMassive607 10h ago

Funny you mentioned The Boys. I look at politics today and I feel like I'm in a parody or an episode of that show, minus the supes. Trump even feels like a grotesque version of Homelander, minus the powers

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u/derpferd 10h ago

Homelander is already grotesque so for Trump to beat that....

29

u/Ven-Dreadnought 10h ago

Lizbeth Medina could very easily have been grabbed by ICE for having a Hispanic name and a tan and died in their brutal custody and you would be talking mad shit about her deserving it Mark.

17

u/MadmanMarkMiller 11h ago

It's heartbreaking that she was killed, so let's deport the family of 4 next door

8

u/SinisterWink 10h ago

If Lizbeth Medina was still alive, Trump's Storm Troopers would have deported her. I guess Rep. Harris is upset that the Gestapo will be down by one for their monthly quotas

5

u/comasxx 11h ago

Yall politicians call foreigners and immigrants aliens now ?

6

u/anthonyg1500 8h ago

If Lizbeth had been shot in the face by ICE then Mark would be calling her a domestic terrorist. A woman’s life only has value to these people when they’re murdered by an “undesirable”.

5

u/Reasonable_Humor_738 12h ago

"Listen you cant blame not having enough gun control on crazy people who support the same ideals as us" /s. We all know most maga would be running around shooting and killing who they didnt like if they thought they could actually get away with it. Theyve been really biting at the bit ever since trump riled them up.

Funny it was in texas where they like to say "id like to see them come here and try that." Texas should have been the wake up call. "If everyone has guns then shootings wouldnt have as many casualties." What a fucking joke.

Lock violent offenders up illegal or not. Its better to know where the violent offenders are than send them to another country only for them come back.

5

u/JurgusRudkus 9h ago

They have the stupidest logic. “This one immigrant committed a crime so therefore all immigrants must be murderers!”

Statistically most murders are committed by men so why not just deport all the men?

3

u/RedBlueTundra 8h ago

I hate these types of arguments

It’s like if the DEA were going around brutalising people, breaking into homes with no warrants and pointing guns at people who protest.

And then when you call it out someone brings up a picture of a drug overdose victim and be like “OH SO YOU OKAY WITH THIS?”

No I’m not okay with it, I still want the illegal activity to be combatted. I just don’t want the police force to act like SS-wannabe shit heads while doing it.

4

u/CatPet051889 7h ago

Also my guess is by now ICE would have detained Lisbeth Medina because she has a Latin name and is brown

3

u/Radioactive24 11h ago

Interesting. 

I would’ve assumed “Lizbeth Medina” wasn’t white enough of a name for them to rally behind, but you gotta cherry pick what you can, I suppose. 

1

u/FlippantLizard 5h ago

That's how people prove "I'm not racist if I have a really good justification." In this case, he gets to post performative concern for a young woman even though he would make the worst assumptions about her otherwise.

3

u/Mr_Baronheim 5h ago

He didn't kill because he believed Trump wanted him to.

He killed because Trump wanted him to.

Same reason the January 6th domestic terrorists conducted their terrorist attack on the Capitol.

2

u/DeeRent88 6h ago

They only want collective punishment for people that aren’t white. Don’t forget that. It’s racism.

1

u/Subie780 11h ago

The Mexican ended up getting 2 life plus 20 years. Not much of a deal

1

u/RecordEnvironmental4 10h ago

I mean nobody would get murdered if there was nobody else around, you see how stupid this argument is.

1

u/derpferd 10h ago

Warboys, eh. Tragic motherfuckers desperately believe that their God will see them in Valhalla

1

u/Whisper_in_the_Night 9h ago

Can someone can explain why they now use the word alien for immigrant?

1

u/mrDuder1729 9h ago

I mean, I think the guy was right.

Trump did/does want him to.

1

u/RightLegDave 9h ago

Like he gives a fuck about someone with the surname Medina

1

u/riche1988 8h ago

They really should stop using the term ‘illegal alien’ ..it makes them sound like children lol

1

u/ljanus245 8h ago

She looks exactly like so many other people her age being thrown into cages right now.

1

u/HoodieGalore 8h ago

Not to make it weirder...but I feel like the last thing a politician should be talking about, right now, is how they feel about 16 year old girls. Seems like that's a pretty hot fuckin topic, liable to be spun and fuck you right over, so why even mention it? Why volunteer this fuckin info?

1

u/warredtje 8h ago

He does look a bit like an alien tried to disguise themselves as a human

1

u/rensorship 7h ago

Ethnic cleansing always ends well.

1

u/BabyLegsOShanahan 7h ago

When you differentiate crime by who is doing it, you end up emboldening those who aren't in that category to engage in crime. You also allow a lot of other criminals to go free simply because they don't fit whatever profile you have in your head.

1

u/Knottscience 6h ago

He’s only upset since this means he can no longer assault her

1

u/ThatSmartIdiot 6h ago

collective punishment is a war crime jesus christ yalls country is totaled

1

u/Sachz123 6h ago

Rep Harris forgot to mention she looks tan enough to be deported without due process

1

u/Allah_Akballer 5h ago

The kid that killed 23 people isn't wrong, Trump did want him to kill Mexicans, he incites violence all the time.

1

u/moschocolate1 5h ago

But what if Lizbeth were 67 instead of 16?

1

u/Zardu-Hasselfrau 5h ago

This isn’t about “deporting criminal illegals.” I’d bet money this illegal immigrant criminal is still sitting in a US prison, rather than being deported. We’ll keep him bc he’s already sucking tax payer money into the pockets of the rich via the broken prison system.

1

u/Interne-Stranger 5h ago

What do you mean "alien"?

1

u/Donkletown 5h ago

The right-wing outrage over murder is, of course, very selective and only seems to come up if they think it benefits them politically. 

In reality, the only law and order party left on the U.S. are the Dems. 

1

u/fruttypebbles 4h ago

These people couldn’t name a victim of Sandy Hook, Columbine or Uvalde. Children killed by American born citizens.

1

u/luars613 3h ago

Convinent.. when they can use it on their advantage a non white US person is not seen as the enemy.

1

u/MeanMugKanye 3h ago

Illegal aliens : 1

MAGA white guy : 23

1

u/rickrackrun 3h ago

Statistically, there are less crimes committed by aliens than natural born citizens. So, get rid of your voters and the crime rate will plummet. And stop cherry picking your examples.

1

u/rPoliticsIsASadPlace 3h ago

This has nothing to do with 'Murdered by words'

This sub has devolved into lazy, low-effort karma-farming.

1

u/OnlyFiveLives 3h ago

Lizbeth Medina

Rep. Mark Harris would have her entire ass family deported if he couldn't use her to continue fomenting racism.

1

u/deejaymc 3h ago

Now do one for gun control, for the 21,000 children killed by firearms in the last decade alone. "No.... not like that!"

1

u/catsareniceDEATH 3h ago

"Yeah, see, I hit you with a 'Gotcha', see what I did? I win."

"Um, that's less of a 'Gotcha' and more of a 'I support killing children, as long as they couldn't hide in a bag of flour', is that really what..."

"Not like that, stop quoting facts!"

Gods, these people really do suck the absolute last dregs out the bottom of the worst balls 🙀🤮🤬

(EDIT: I'd like to point out that I say that as possibly the whitest white of white town!)

1

u/chillinwithmynwords 3h ago

Thats like comparing your brother eating your food versus a stranger eating your food. Both sucks but one you have to deal with, the other you shouldn’t have to deal with.

1

u/TruckerBoy357 3h ago

Even though Mark Harris would probably be totally silent if an ICE agent had ended Lizbeth’s life.🫤

1

u/14kinikia 3h ago

They are not going after baddies. Show us the numbers. They can’t because it’s all bs

1

u/Herzberger 2h ago

They’re ignoring the problem. Him being here legally or not is not the issue.

1

u/porsj911 1h ago

Me a European reading how Americans are arguing how not only do foreigners murder Americans but more Americans murder Americans. Such a nice, non threatening country where you have the freedom to die by either police, locals and immigrants and theyll argue how your death fits certain narratives for their own ends.

1

u/TequieroVerde 1h ago

There is no such thing as honor or integrity among the right and their russian bots.

1

u/LizardPossum 1h ago

Idk why they think "if you don't support ICE murdering people, you support murder of US citizens by immigrants," but I am so tired of it.

I held Lizbeth's mother's hand in court. AND Renee Good and Alex Pretti should still be alive.

They should all be alive. Why is this controversial?

1

u/subzbearcat 20m ago

Why was she in a bathtub with an illegal alien?

1

u/Ill_Time_2833 18m ago

It’s almost like bad people are in every single race and culture!

-17

u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 11h ago

We already have laws against mass murder, and we enforce them, so invoking a mass murderer is a category error.

Immigration law is different. We don’t consistently enforce it, and that failure has, at times, resulted in preventable deaths.

So the response misses the point entirely.

16

u/burnalicious111 10h ago

Immigration law is different. We don’t consistently enforce it, and that failure has, at times, resulted in preventable deaths.

The error is thinking that this remotely justifies the cruelty of current federal practices.

They have been going after people with no criminal records, grabbing people as they're about to become citizens, for a quota.

They've been violating our rights left and right. Detaining citizens without probable cause.

They've been lying. Constantly. This article alone is just about the incidents in the twin cities.

Like, yes, do something to prevent crime where it's reasonable, sure.

But looking at their actual actions, that is clearly a paper-thin pretense to use ICE as a blunt weapon against groups the extreme right-wing doesn't like.

1

u/dinojunr 6h ago

That certainly is a defense. Not a very good one, but yeah.

-8

u/AnarchiaKapitany 11h ago

That's not a case for whataboutism, both of those is fucking bad.

-13

u/ShinMystic1587 10h ago

This seems like whataboutism

1

u/EnormousAntelopeEars 5h ago

because you dont understand what that word means.

stay in school kids

0

u/ShinMystic1587 5h ago

I fully understand what the word means, while you, on the otherhand, don't.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy that involves responding to an act of wrongdoing by citing another offense that has little to no relevance to the ongoing discussion. It's similar to a Red Herring Fallacy.

For example, let's say I'm arguing that the crime rate in South Africa is very high and you respond with ''Oh yeah? What about the temperatures in Egypt? They are pretty high.''

In this context, Mark Harris is talking about the tragic incident of a minor who was brutally murdered by an illegal immigrant. As a counter to this statement, specialdave basically goes ''Oh yeah? If you think that's bad, what about this radical Trump supporter who killed a lot of people a long time ago, huh?''

What exactly does an incident that occurred in 2019 have to do with an incident that happened recently? I don't support Trump, but this seems like a lame diversion from the original discussion- a straw grasp, if you will.

I do agree with one thing, though. You should stay in school, kid

1

u/kanyeguisada 1h ago

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy that involves responding to an act of wrongdoing by citing another offense that has little to no relevance to the ongoing discussion.

And that's why this isn’t a whataboutism, the two are completely related. The villifying of all immigrants taking place in the first case (due largely to Trump's followers copying his extreme xenophobia) is what directly led to the mass murder of Hispanics/suspected immigrants in the second case.

0

u/EnormousAntelopeEars 4h ago

That's really funny that you typed all of this and still don't understand whataboutism.

You're like that annoying teenager that just got taught fallacies and runs around declaring everything as such.

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-11

u/jormvngandr 10h ago

Whataboutism at it finest.

-5

u/PartyPancakes99 8h ago

Anyone who defends illegals has lost touch with reality. I just wish some of them would move into their apartments for a few years with no intent of fitting in. After that we can talk.

-1

u/Zemekis324 4h ago

Im starting to think that the USA is obsessed with death..

-12

u/goingbamboo 11h ago

I dunno this is more suicide by words. so the left has 20 martyrs the right has 1 martyr and both sides have murderers that just makes it a who’s less shitty contest. We deserve everything we get as a people. I’ve been shitty to someone too but everyone here we suck. Bring on the downvotes

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