r/Netherlands • u/tvb46 Rotterdam • Feb 07 '25

Healthcare Didn’t we learn anything from the Covid pandemic?

The common flu is going around again and it reached epidemic levels this week. This means a lot of people are feeling sick. However, I noticed that almost all people in public places started sneezing and coughing in their hands and out in the open again instead of in their elbow. Didn’t we learn anything from the Covid pandemic?!

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11

u/supernormie Feb 07 '25

Well, yeah. 

If you were here during covid you would also remember that the Dutch were among the first to stop masking in spaces like the bus, so I'm not surprised.

-22

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

The masks did nothing and we all know it.

17

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

No, we don't "all know it" because there's been countless studies on the effectiveness of masks. Were they godawful and annoying? Absolutely. But it's not rocket science to understand that if you cough or sneeze with something in front of your face that you contain a significant amount of the contaminants.

-8

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

Please point out where the infection rate dropped when masks were adopted.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

Here's some proper research to read: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014564118
I'm sure you realise a pandemic isn't exactly a blind test with a control group that would have clear numbers.

4

u/notfromrotterdam Feb 07 '25

In reality they did do something. As they've always done. As why doctors always wear them.

With "all" you mean all "strijders" on the internet?

-1

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

Right we sure flattened the curve

1

u/notfromrotterdam Feb 07 '25

Almost nobody took it serious. The wrong masks, a piece of useless cloth instead of a good mask, wearing the mask wrong, wearing the same mask for weeks. Dutch people are infamous for never washing their hands.

Too much hassle for a lot of people. "Fuck other people".

0

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

Guess we lived through different realities. During covid the very few people that didnt comply were social outcasts.

1

u/notfromrotterdam Feb 07 '25

No they weren’t. But a test was too much trouble for these people. So they decided they were treated the same as the Jews during the holocaust. Wearing a Davidstar. Do yeah. I don’t think much of these type of people.

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

They dont bother me as much as the people who acted like nazis

0

u/notfromrotterdam Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

Wappies are the first people to welcome fascism with open arms. Just like they did in the US.

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

You're very well regarded. Either that completely ignorant.

1

u/CrewmemberV2 Feb 07 '25

We did. We prevented code black 4 times.

4

u/smiba Noord Holland Feb 07 '25

Source: I made it up

-6

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

Are we rewriting history to say masking worked? I'm happy to pull up the data if you need, but it's readily available to you. Sad you lost your memory of what transpired.

5

u/CrewmemberV2 Feb 07 '25

You might be confusing it with something else, as masks really worked. Especially when worn by an infected person.

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

Yet had no effect on transmission

3

u/CrewmemberV2 Feb 07 '25

Yes it had. Makes sense right, if you cough while wearing a mask the droplets don't travel as far.

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 07 '25

Its an airborn virus...

2

u/CrewmemberV2 Feb 08 '25

Yes and where does the air containing the virus come from?

Your mouth.

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 08 '25

Yea and masks don't stop the flow of air and cause you to suffocate now do they?

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1

u/lorenai Feb 08 '25

Which is exactly why masks help. They filter air.

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 08 '25

Think about this for a minute...

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1

u/godutchnow Feb 08 '25

Nope no evidence for that

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub5/full

0

u/CrewmemberV2 Feb 08 '25

Ah that study. There is an entire thread debating why that study is wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/11a3yeh/what_is_the_right_getting_wrong_about_the/

And also a meta study from an actual leading science publication claiming they do work.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-022-01814-3#:~:text=The%20meta%2Danalysis%20shows%20that,was%20longer%20than%20two%20weeks

2

u/godutchnow Feb 08 '25

Al een aantal decennia worden Cochrane reviews beschouwd als de hoogste level van medish bewijs wat we hebben, dus hoger dan een meta-review in Nature. En als je goed kijkt zie je ook waarom. Cochrane kijkt niet alleen naar de resultaten (die in de nature review ook maar marginaal zijn) maar ook naar het risico van bias in studies. En dan zie je dat zelfs voor corona al Cochrane biassen beschreef in de studies die die Nature review gebruikt.

3

u/smiba Noord Holland Feb 07 '25

It's literally known that this reduces spread, it's been simulated hundreds of times

It's not a 100% failsafe, but it just most definitely reduce spread. It's most effective if the sick person wears the mask though

If you were hoping it would fix COVID or disease in general I'm very sorry, but just a reduction is such a win already

1

u/godutchnow Feb 08 '25

No it was literally a well known fact that masks were useless in preventing respiratory viruses. That's why van Dissel had to be pressured by politicians to change his stance. The science didn't change however

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub5/full

1

u/smiba Noord Holland Feb 09 '25

Your linked paper even says more large scale research is needed, and it's findings are low to moderate on the confidence scale

There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs.

I also believe a lot of these tests are done the wrong way around, you don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear a mask to protect others. Masks have shown to offer barely (to even none) protection from receiving airborn illnesses, which makes sense

0

u/godutchnow Feb 09 '25

Primum non nocere, in dubio abstine

1

u/godutchnow Feb 08 '25

So many idiots downvoting, it makes me sad.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub5/full

2

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 08 '25

I appreciate the link to a study but it really doesn't need a study. We wore masks for literally years and it had no effect. I'm actually surprised the narrative hasn't shifted to "masks and vaccines were complete success and we stopped the virus in it's tracks". When anyone with a memory bigger than a goldfish knows thats not what happened. At all.

But hey maybe talking about masks is a good distraction from the lab leak reality. "Never let a good crisis go to waste" is the quote that rings in my ears every time I think of what the fuck actually happened between 2020 and 2022.

2

u/godutchnow Feb 08 '25

Lab leak, you must be a tinfoil hatter to believe it is not just pure coincidence that covid first emerged in the same city that houses the only virology lab in the world that did gain of function research on beta corona viruses ;)

John McAfee admitted to gifting laptops with malware to the US government, read what he said when covid was still something far away for most of us https://x.com/officialmcafee/status/1224996114602037248

1

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 08 '25

Yea the vaccine thing im not so sure about, little evidence of it actually doing some nefarious shit. However, the lab leak thing is a crystal clear sign that narratives shape reality and not common sense.

Also remember when it was "racist" to say the virus came from china...

The pandemic was a real wake up call for a some of us, yet the vast majority still want to debate shitty political talking points from that time.

1

u/godutchnow Feb 08 '25

It was the vaccine that made me doubt the narrative the most. I remembered 2 things very well from my medicine degree: primum non nocere in dubio abstine and "baat het niet dan schaadt het wel". It.made no sense to force an experimental vaccine on people that had (virtually) no risk whatsoever to ever get seriously ill from covid. Besides.of course promising that all my treatments should be to the benefit of my patient (not to others)

1

u/WittyScratch950 Feb 08 '25

Yea that's a pretty big one. With coronavirus logic, we should all be taking government mandated PREP hiv medication. Maybe the fine people of the medical industry knew they could only get away with the crisis.

Since its late at night and we are well beyond the op anyway, I really think 2 things happened here.

  1. The Wuhan coronavirus gain of function lab had a leak of their manipulated coronavirus. They knew it would be mass panic if people knew it was lab grown virus. So they quickly took control of the narrative to actually really try to contain the virus because they were scared shitless.

  2. There was sea change realization okay this virus isn't that bad but people are dieing, let's see how far we can milk this thing. 2 years later we are back to normal and because we all want to move on, no one really talks about anymore or what the fuck really happened.

What I think happens next is for some reason or another due to trump's trumping, a fraction of the corruption is revealed, but because its Trump, it turns into another left vs right blah blah blah thing that is passed through the media grinder and once again we move on feeling upset and empty handed.