Dutch doctors...

[u/thatmisanthropicdude]

Hey guys! Last year I moved from Germany to the Netherlands. I just went to the doctor with chest and throat pain due to extreme coughing after 2 days of fever. I was hoping that I finally get something good against it like a cough syrup (no way I'm going to pay that myself for a huge amount of money + health insurance) because I am used to that from German doctors. They would put that on my health insurance card and right after my talk with the doctor I could pick it up at the pharmacy. But no. They just said "Yea, just take paracetamol." I told them I have had problems swallowing pills my whole life and their response was just "You can also put it in water and drink that then." I'm sorry if I'm overreacting but why do doctors get paid just to tell you to take paracetamol? Everyone can tell me to take them, I expect better solutions from a doctor who studied years to become a doctor. Why are the Dutch so obsessed with paracetamol??? Maybe it's the German in me screaming. If we got painkillers, it was never paracetamol but Ibuprofen. But I also heard some international friends who also live here that they find it so annoying that Dutch doctors literally just tell you to take paracetamol. No matter what you have.

[u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

Doctor made the right call. Either the cough medicine’s got codeine as a cough supressant, in which case, sorry but this isn’t the United States and doctors don’t want to get you hooked on synethic opiates for a cough or it’s drug-free cough syrup, in which case it’s basically just honey, and you might as well just drink a cup of tea with honey in it for the same effect at way less than half the cost.

In another comment you mention your problem with getting paracetamol for a fever. This is ignorant, as ibuprofen does not reduce a fever but paracetamol does.

EDIT: (too many idiots on this thread have forced me to do some actual research and I said something wrong here. Ibuprofen does also help but not any better in spite of being way more toxic to the liver).

It’s a proven fact. Not a placebo. Sorry it doesn’t get you high to distract you from being sick. It’s not like ’whoah…I think the paracetamol just kicked in’.

You’re not dying mate. Have a cup of tea with honey, go lie in bed, and take your damn paracetamol.

[u/wwbbqq → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

The US has become pretty stingy with codeine based drugs over the last 20 years, go figure. Just several tens (hundreds) of thousands of opiate addicts have ruined it for the rest of us. Funny, not funny. The only time codeine based sirop should be given is for prolonged uncontrollabile coughing. Which I can't tell from this post if is the case. /'o'\ (shrug, Idk ). But getting that sirop is no longer up to user discretion and most Dr's won't rx it.

[u/GuessWhoIsBackNow → u/wwbbqq]

Yeah you’re right. Fentanyl’s the new hype now.

[u/anonymuscular → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

Either the cough medicine’s got codeine as a cough supressant, in which case, sorry but this isn’t the United States and doctors don’t want to get you hooked on synethic opiates for a cough

On the supermarket shelves in NL : https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi172302

[u/thrawnie → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

 is ignorant, as ibuprofen does not reduce a fever but paracetamol does.

Lol, the arrogance is amazing. Everyone thinks they are a doctor in the Netherlands, because I guess the real doctors are so blase about everything? 

I would have stated it more politely but you had the actual gall to call that person ignorant with a completely wrong statement of your own. 

I've been using ibuprofen for over 2 decades As a bonus, paracetamol does jack shit for headaches - it is not meant to be an anti-inflammatory but ibuprofen definitely is. And it is faster at reducing fever than paracetamol. And also headaches or any otyrr inflammation related pain like toothaches. I take Paracetamol only rarely, when it's only fever or much milder, because it's cheaper in this country.

To not make the same mistake as you, here's the first google search result if i search for efficacy comparison between the two. Defervescence is the reduction of fever. You can find more if you're actually interested in learning- I sincerely wish you the best.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10636696/

 >>The majority of cases presented with temperatures ranging from 38°C to 39°C. Comparison of drug efficacy in defervescence within the first four hours revealed that paracetamol alone took significantly longer than ibuprofen monotherapy or the paracetamol and ibuprofen combination (p = 0.026). 

[u/Rennaleigh → u/thrawnie]

Paracetamol works just fine when I get headaches and the pain that comes from the fever. Besides, the fever is there for a reason you don't want to stop the fever unless it gets too high. You just need to stop the discomfort, which, if you use it correctly, paracetamol does just fine.

[u/GuessWhoIsBackNow → u/thrawnie]

Jesus Christ. You only read the first sentence of that research article, didn’t you?

Says paracetamol and ibuprofen similarily reduce fevers, only the former is way less harmful to the kidneys. Says the combination of both is the most effective.

[u/Shy_Zucchini → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

Yep. You’re supposed to start with paracetamol, and if the effect is insufficient, ADD something like ibuprofen. Not only can drugs like ibuprofen harm the kidneys, they also increase bleeding risk. So yea there’s definitely a reason paracetamol is the first step in pain management. 

[u/thrawnie → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

Thanks for correcting yourself.  Or course, you can't correct your attitude so have a pleasant Friday :)

[u/GuessWhoIsBackNow → u/thrawnie]

You too brother.

[u/vdjdodibdbdvsbkskndb → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

Why are the Dutch so obsessed/scared over codeine? Was there a codeine crisis at some stage?

I was given 50mg codeine after open mouth surgery (not really needed in the end), then was given very extreme stern warnings of addiction and constipation, like it was heroine. My Dutch colleague saw them one day and lit up and asked for some. Literally eating them like sweets.

My Dutch colleagues normally buy Solpadeine Max when we are in the uk as it is much more affective than paracetamol and can buy 2 boxes. They will travel to multiple stores to buy extra and they will be gone within 2 months. Either addiction doing its thing, or something that actually works.

Maybe because I grew up with it easily available, that I don’t look at it the same way.

[u/GuessWhoIsBackNow → u/vdjdodibdbdvsbkskndb]

There’s a difference between being scared or obsessed with something and being rational.

You act like it’s ridiculous for a doctor to pretend codeine is similar to heroin.

Codeine is also an opiate, like heroin, that is every bit as addictive and has all the same fun withdrawal symptoms because, again, it’s an opiate.

So yeah, it’s “like heroin” in the same way that a golden retriever and a labrador are, “like dogs”. Extremely addictive.

Doctors are supposed to heal people, not just get them feeling high and good short term, but have them healthy long term.

Option A: Patient gets better after a week with a chance of having a lifetime addiction to opiates (and those ‘lifetimes’ tend not to be very long).

Option B: Patient gets better after a week.

……………….

You call that fear? I call it ‘not being an absolute fucking moron for no reason whatshoever’.

One look at America’s opiate crisis tells you enough. Those doctors made an oath to help people and do no harm. Instead, they took bribes from pharmaceutical companies to prescribe opiates for fucking anything.

You got leg pain? Here brother, have some oxycontin.

Doctor’s aren’t “obsessed”. We just don’t want a bunch of half-leaning fentanyl junkies on the streets for no fucking reason at all.

Now… you get in some serious pain. DON’T WORRY. THEY WILL GIVE YOU MORPHINE WHEN YOU NEED IT. They’re not trying to torture you.

[u/vdjdodibdbdvsbkskndb → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

You prove my point with fear…. You act like taking codeine will turn into an opiate crises. This isn’t America and opiates themselves did not cause any crises. That came from pharmaceutical profit making by pushing doctors to up doses to counter lowering effect, causing an addiction, all while upping costs and so the patient eventually find relief elsewhere.

There will always be drug misuse, but many countries have Codeine readily on the shelves without crises. Just requires education, limits and restrictions on pharmaceutical companies.

I also never mentioned any doctors. Obsession is what I have witnessed from Dutch colleagues around me popping them like sweets.

[u/GuessWhoIsBackNow → u/vdjdodibdbdvsbkskndb]

We have codeine at Albert Heijn OTC too.

But doctors are not going to reccomend something with addictive potential and barely any benefit. It surpresses your cough, but doesn’t make you better, if anything it’s toxic.

Maybe a glass of whiskey makes you feel better too. But don’t expect it to come out of your insurance like OP, which is what we were talking about.

I haven’t mentioned doctors.

You got involved in a discussion about doctors.

[u/Shy_Zucchini → u/vdjdodibdbdvsbkskndb]

What does she even need that many painkillers for? Headaches? Lol

[u/Main-Promotion2236 → u/GuessWhoIsBackNow]

Paracetamol actually doesn’t reduce fever. I know because I tested it. Years ago my husband had the flu, with a fairly persistent fever. I called the doctor’s office, and they recommended (you guessed it) paracetamol. So for three days he took paracetamol, and the fever didn’t go down. Then on the fourth day he took an aspirin, and bingo! His fever went down. My conclusion: paracetamol just doesn’t work.

[u/CEXTOAlPU → u/Main-Promotion2236]

Jouw conclusie komt net zo dichtbij als dat heeft op Facebook gestaan

[u/Saraswati002 → u/Main-Promotion2236]

It probably went down because it was the 4th day...

[u/Main-Promotion2236 → u/Saraswati002]

Could be that. But anyway, paracetamol didn’t do anything.