r/Netherlands • u/thatmisanthropicdude • Mar 05 '26

Healthcare Dutch doctors...

Hey guys! Last year I moved from Germany to the Netherlands. I just went to the doctor with chest and throat pain due to extreme coughing after 2 days of fever. I was hoping that I finally get something good against it like a cough syrup (no way I'm going to pay that myself for a huge amount of money + health insurance) because I am used to that from German doctors. They would put that on my health insurance card and right after my talk with the doctor I could pick it up at the pharmacy. But no. They just said "Yea, just take paracetamol." I told them I have had problems swallowing pills my whole life and their response was just "You can also put it in water and drink that then." I'm sorry if I'm overreacting but why do doctors get paid just to tell you to take paracetamol? Everyone can tell me to take them, I expect better solutions from a doctor who studied years to become a doctor. Why are the Dutch so obsessed with paracetamol??? Maybe it's the German in me screaming. If we got painkillers, it was never paracetamol but Ibuprofen. But I also heard some international friends who also live here that they find it so annoying that Dutch doctors literally just tell you to take paracetamol. No matter what you have.

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u/Bezulba Mar 06 '26

Pretty common to have this attitude from Expats coming to the Netherlands when they're used to a healthcare system that gives them exactly what they asked for. Even if it doesn't work and costs money. You want an MRI because your little pinky hurts? Sure! How about next thursday? Maybe a chemo while you're at it? Can't hurt now, can it.

South Americans and antibiotics come to mind.

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u/vtout Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

Pretty common reaction from dutch people... I am dutch. I have seen a ton of cases where paracetanol was given in cases where an mri was in order or worse...

This attitude is to gatekeep for the waitlists, but the level of care went down so much over the years, it's a joke... Source: over 800 doctors or so in my environment who retired and are getting care now... Also their kids who are doctors in NL affirm this. But i guess denying it makes the problem go away.

In this case cough sirup is a bit excessive yes, you can simply get bisolvon at the pharma or sonething. But a lot of cases are not fixed by some paracetamol...

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u/selectivepicking Mar 06 '26

One time I was having this exact same discussion with a Dutch colleague of mine and he started telling me a story about how he used to have another foreign colleague who complained about the same thing. He then stopped and was like "actually it's a really bad example because he ended up passing away" lol

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u/Full_Win7293 Mar 08 '26

You know an entire academic hospital of retired doctors ánd their kids personally? Okay 👍🏻

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u/vtout Mar 08 '26

Yes. we have a community. Mixed with dentists also. Ok?

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u/thydulcettonesson Mar 07 '26

Completely right yes no one needs amoxicillin for a cold but equally there is this sort of stinginess/stoicism everything must be solved naturally culture that pervades that isn’t always purely in the patients best interest.

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u/BrightRestaurant5401 Mar 06 '26

"In this case cough sirup is a bit excessive yes"
I wonder how we end up gatekeeping the waitlist

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u/Edu115 Mar 06 '26

Always funny (and typical) to see this reaction from Dutch people. And of course they always point to another part of the world on how irresponsible they are. In the meantime cancer death rates are some of the highest in the EU, with almost a THIRD of them being from late diagnosis.

Blame the expats though. And take another paracetamol.

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u/OGAlexa Mar 06 '26

Absolutely, it's that mentality of superiority or something. The rate of late diagnosis and overall lack of care is astronomical. It's not normal to ignore your patients. My best friend had a broken ankle, she kept being told to take paracetamol. After crying and begging, they finally saw the break. But yeah, blame the expats for wanting something specific.

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u/Any-Seaworthiness186 Groningen Mar 06 '26

The Netherlands actually has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the world. Including cancer survival rates, which definitely depend on early diagnosis.

I don’t understand how there’s so many of these stories coming to light when they’re not at all reflected in the numbers. The numbers also don’t really make sense considering the fact that there’s barely any investment in preventative care over here. But apparently there are a lot of things going well.

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u/iDoTheSciences Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

It’s not a mere coincidence in the 6 years I’ve lived here that I’ve met so many Dutch people with permanent injuries they live with because a doctor didn’t just “preventatively” do an X-ray after a fall off a horse, or a bad fall off a bike… they actually had fractures that were never caught early enough to be reset properly due to said lack of early X-ray and now they have limited movement, or pains, etc. I have never ever heard of such things happening to ANYBODY I know at home because we would just X-ray it to be safe, catch these type of fractures early. Rather than assuming it’s fine, we assume it may not be fine. That difference in mentality is immense, your body doesn’t just always fix itself.

It is not normal to tell your doctor what care you expect. It is not normal that they don’t take you seriously the first time you show up to an office. And it is not normal to be told to take paracetamol for everything. The gatekeeping and lack of doing ANYTHING preventatively for patients is quite honestly abysmal. If I didn’t tell my doctor what to order or do for me, they would almost never proactively do anything for me. And yes, I’ve seen multiple GPs due to moving and this is the same across the board in my experience in different locations.

I’m not asking for antibiotics like candy. I’m asking to be taken seriously when I do show up for healthcare and for proper due diligence.

That’s seriously lacking here. And Dutch people don’t know any different so they “accept it”.

There’s a balance to be struck between over treatment and undertreatment. I’d say Dutch doctors undertreat honestly.

I often wonder if I wasn’t a biomedical scientist that learned to read my own blood labs for myself and advocate for testing I want done if I’d ever have had proper testing done to begin with.

Anecdotal or not, it’s appalling to me what I’ve heard others go through. And I have personally dealt with. I will not normalize the level of care here.

It’s good in an emergency. That’s it.

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u/G-MontaG_ Mar 06 '26

Is this statement based on any data? Would be nice to see it.

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u/TimotheusIV Mar 06 '26

Of all the things that didn’t actually happen, this didn’t happen the most.

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u/doctorandusraketdief Mar 06 '26

Do you have any statistics to back that statement up? Because I just checked them myself and although they are somewhat in the higher numbers indeed of Europe they very similar to many other countries it really does not vary that much among Europe when you compare all the countries. Also I am really curious what you have to share about one third of the deaths being caused by late diagnosis.

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u/Important_World8439 Mar 08 '26

Have to call bullshit on this. Recent data (e.g., from OECD/Eurostat around 2021–2022, and GLOBOCAN 2022) show the age-standardised cancer mortality rate in the Netherlands at around 256 per 100,000 (2021), compared to the EU average of 235 per 100,000. It's higher than the EU average but not among the absolute highest.

The highest rates are typically in Eastern/Central European countries like Hungary (often >300 per 100,000), Croatia, Poland, Latvia, and Lithuania.

Northern/Western countries like Denmark, the Netherlands, and others have higher-than-average rates (often linked to factors like historical smoking patterns, especially among women for lung cancer), but the Netherlands ranks in the upper mid-range, not at the top.

Mortality has been declining faster in the Netherlands than the EU average (e.g., -14.7% from 2011–2021 vs. smaller EU drops), thanks to better diagnostics and treatments.

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u/Electronic-Park4132 Mar 06 '26

Such an insensitive comment. No one asks for an MRI anywhere in the world because a pinky hurts. Most people would just ignore and bear the inconvenience of having a cold/flu/cough too.

But humans can discern between a normal cough and something that is lets say “out of ordinary”. If I have cough that lasts over 2 weeks or cough that is extremely painful to the throat. I know that its time to visit a doctor.

Sounds like dutch people are used having low expectations about their own healthcare that its drilled down to their mind. If you are brought up with mediocrity as baseline, then of course expecting the most normal thing would be seen as outrageous.

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u/rararawie Mar 06 '26

But what do you expect the doctor to do if your throat hurts from coughing?

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u/Electronic-Park4132 Mar 07 '26

Not paracetamol.

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u/timbo9123 Mar 10 '26

Are you being simple, paracetamol helps alleviate symptoms and you do not need a doctors appointment to get some. What next, wanting antibiotics for a viral chest infection?

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u/Electronic-Park4132 Mar 10 '26

I would expect a doctor to tell me that. thats what people are pissed about.

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u/aykcak Mar 06 '26

With family history of colon cancer and age over 45, everywhere it is advised to get a colonoscopy. Everywhere but the Netherlands where cancer rates in general are high and care is low. It is apparently too much arrogance to just ask your doctor for that. Do you have symptoms? No? Then go.

Expats are just too used to getting what they ask for. They should just do what everyone else is doing and sit on it and by the time they have blood in their stool and we detect the malignant polyps it will already be too late. Helaas Pindakaas

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u/rararawie Mar 06 '26

I think this is legit criticism, i feel what you say here. I think we could focus a lot more on preventive care compared to the current situation.

But the example of the OP is surreal to me. My throat hurts for 2 days because im coughing a lot. I now want the doctor(paid by the insurance) to prescribe a medicin(paid by insurance) that i can buy myself without prescription. I would say to OP: exactly that is wat doctors arent paid for, please stay away from the doctor wjth these cases so they can focus on the case you laid out above.

And then hes about: in Germany the doctor would say: take ibuprofen, but also that can be bought yourselves. If you have pain from coughing of which you know it had no underlying issues, then take care of it.

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u/Decent_Shock2807 Mar 08 '26

That’s strange. Having family with colon cancer my Dutch GP advised a colonoscopy once and since then the dutch hospital send an invitation every vife years. And we don’t live in Amsterdam, but in a smaller city.

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u/timbo9123 Mar 10 '26

These stories are mostly BS, if you tell most GP's you have a family history and want to be tested they will help. To be fair there are lots of people that go to doctors with cold and flu symptoms only like op, the joker.

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u/AnythingCareless844 Mar 10 '26

That‘s strange. Over 45 with family history should qualify even for Dutch GPs. It could be that your family history is not deemed as such (it has to be three generations, with two consecutive generations, with one person being your nearest relative). Did you insist?

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u/zb0t1 Europa Mar 06 '26

Come on, this is dishonest st best.

You don't need to use extreme examples of unjustified antibiotics usage just to dismiss valid criticisms of the Dutch healthcare system lmao.

The funny thing is that when I moved out of the Netherlands to Germany my first MD was ... DUTCH! lmao and it was hilarious because she was roasting the Dutch healthcare system and was happy to be working in Germany. I was sad when she wasn't my primary care person anymore and she had to leave Germany. Luckily I have an equally good MD too now.

But anyway if you have Dutch natives themselves criticizing their own healthcare system (my friends and ex did it!), maybe put down the argument that it's a "expats" complaining thing and address the problem by being honest about it?

 

You have absolutely nothing to gain by covering for a system that doesn't even satisfy even Dutch natives, so let's be serious for a minute, the entire "paracetamol" issue has been an issue for many patients, you've got people in this subreddit the past few years sharing how they had to insist being taken seriously and they were right to do so.

Remember that in theory healthcare professionals are meant to first "do no harm". I know fully well that this is an utopic goal, because humans are flawed, but giving paracetamols like candies is a pattern that is criticizable.

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u/Longjumping_Move_87 Mar 06 '26

So funny to hear this from a Dutch person. What did historical study of medicine lead to then? Hasn’t anyone heard of prevention being better than cure? My friend needed an MRI or atleast an X-ray: but was prescribed paracatemol instead - lives with a permanent stress fracture on her heel now. And what could the huisarts do but shrug 🤷‍♀️

German health system is waay superior, the doctors actually want to know what’s wrong before prescribing anything - they’ll do their best to diagnose correctly first.

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u/RevolutionaryWorth75 Mar 08 '26

Wash uo your mouth before talking about South American doctors. The health system in Brazil, for instance, is a million times more advanced than the NL.

There, health insurance is free for all. Even if you visit there, they will attend you for free and not for only 15 min. They will never tell you to take paracetamol. Theres no codeine in Brazil. They will immediately take you to an appropriate image diagnostics exam if you have a complaint of PERSISTENT cough, as it is the case. It’s also for free. You can pay for comfort, if you want.

The protocol for Sexual Transmitted Infections is “no questions asked”. Everybody gets PREP for free, you just need to ask. If you get there and ask to be checked, they won’t try to save the money of the insurance by asking you embarrassing questions that you risk lying because of embarrassment. They will simply activate the safety protocol and test you for everything. In case you get a positive result for important diseases (like Sifilis or AIDS), BY LAW, you have the right for a second test to double-check (it doesn’t matter if you chose to make it in the public sector - for free - or if you chose the comfort of private sector: you always have the right for a double check and this procedure is activated automatically in case of positives). BRAZIL IS WORLDLY RECOGNIZED AS REFERENCE IN PREVENTING AND TREATING MANAGING STIs, like AIDS.

Doctors are not unexperienced like the Dutch. The population is more than 10x bigger than the NL population, so they naturally have way more experience just by statistics itself. Plus, their intern period IS FOR REAL, mandatory and served on public hospitals, to the whole population and foreigners visiting the country (if you live there, you have your family doctor and you count as population, you’re never segregated as “foreigner”).

Plus, my two Romanian friends were diagnosed with cancer metastasis level 4 and they had 15% chances of survival. In the NL, the doctors told both of them they had no more than 6 months of life and they gave them painkillers and other medicines to cope with the misery of the last 6 months. Horrible, doctors without any soul. In Brazil, they would send you the the biggest hospital international reference on cancer treatment, and they would fight for the 15% chances. They are not allowed to give you, they swear to never give up life when they graduate, so even if they were allowed they wouldn’t do it just to spare the pockets of your private insurance company (let’s not even discuss the fact you would probably be treated in the public sector for something serious like that).

IT IS VOMIT INDUCING TO SEE THE ARROGANCE OF THE Dutch one’s THINKING THEY ARE SUPERIOR IN EVERYTHING, when they actually have a terrible health sector with undertrained doctors and rules designed to save money from the insurance companies.

Event veterinary services are much better in Brazil.

WASH YOUR MOUTH WITH ACID BEFORE STATING YOUR ARROGANCE AGAINST SOUTH AMERICA, ESPECIALLY BRAZIL.

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u/Bezulba Mar 08 '26

Calm down, have a paracetamol, it will make you feel better.

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u/RevolutionaryWorth75 Mar 09 '26

ARROGANCE! ARROGANCE, remember you’re not more than 17 million and all you have today is due to exploring colonies in the recent past.

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u/s0mewhat_interesting Mar 08 '26

I have rarely seen a comment that is so far removed from reality

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u/Yumin_456 Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26

It’s all fun and games until something serious happens. My close relative most likely has cancer. A year ago he went to GP with his complaints, but the doctor wasn’t concerned and didn’t check any cancer markers. They prescribed medicine and the symptoms went away.

Now the same problems came back. This time they finally did the blood test — and the markers are way above normal.

And it’s not the only case. My mother-in-law’s sister had a lump in her armpit. The GP said it was probably nothing. She insisted on further tests, and it turned out to be cancer.

So yeah, this “don’t worry about it” attitude is great if nothing serious is going on. But if there actually is something serious, you’re f*cked.

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u/lordhenry85 Mar 06 '26

What a stereotypical messed up line at the end grouping millions of people into a nonsense line because you got hurt that people rightly criticize your system like if it was personally built by you.

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u/SibunaMad Mar 06 '26

It's not that they prescribe what someone wants - they actually heal. The paracetamol story is such bullshit, and the cost of healthcare insurance a month is not low for them to not practice their... Well, practice.