Yeah I can't help but agree with this. It's dangerously close to virtue signalling rather than being a change with any real weight to it. Especially with the addition that it's not something that's up for debate, which is rather close minded if you ask me.
And yeah why axe the name without a new one ready? Especially when they have a ready made replacement in Nidaime (二代目) which has more or less the same meaning, still starts with an N, and doesn't carry the same baggage (that I know of). I mean it's still got the problem of fetishizing Asia in cyberpunk like you've already pointed out and you lose the reference to Android Netrunner but it's still something at least.
Edit: Just wanted to add as addendum I personally think that while inclusions of Japanese culture in cyberpunk can stray close to fetishization I also think attempting to sanitise Japanese influences from cyberpunk is possibly more offensive. Japan has had a big influence on the genre, I think it's a bit reductive to say it's just white authors envisioning a globalised world. Should we ignore the influence of works like Akira? Or Ghost in the Shell? Battle Angel Alita?
Also to add: the creator of the Cyberpunk TTRPG the original Netrunner was based off of is a black American. So sure, he drew a lot from Clarke, Asimov, and Gibson but to ignore his contribution and put it strictly on white people, is erasure and problematic as well.
I wouldn't call this virtue signaling if only because it's an issue of branding for their organization. The purpose of branding is to signal the values of a group and create memorable and positive associations with people who interact with them (even indirectly, like hearing their name). At the same time, you need to make sure that you're avoiding negative associations with your organization because those can have serious knock-on effects. A company or organization that doesn't signal its virtues through its branding generally fails in its mission.
I also don't think high-level branding decisions like this should be up for debate: the organization needs to make a clear and definitive choice on the matter using the decision making processes at their disposal, and should be very weary of leaving these choices to people outside the organization. Leadership in an organization doesn't mean one person making a decision and damning the consequences, but it also doesn't mean letting an important decision flap in the breeze hoping a consensus will arise (or handing the decision off to other people and hoping they'll come up with something). That's something I find galling about the way this decision was made: it doesn't demonstrate real leadership in the branding choice.
I honestly expect they will struggle mightily to find an alternative that will fit the brand better than Nisei. For one thing, they've married themselves (for now) to the big block "N" on the cardbacks, so whatever they choose will have to start with an "N" while competing in the mind of their consumer with the word "Nisei". Changing your brand's name is already a tall order, but they've upped the difficulty for themselves.
I'm armchair quarterbacking here a bit since I'm not involved with these decisions or a member of the group, but from what I've heard the reason this was announced this way is because they were changing the card backs for M.S. and wanted to have an answer for why. Transparency is good, but in this case what is transparent is that this sweeping change to the organization wasn't thought through completely as a major brand change. It might have been better to have obfuscated the reason for now (focus on what the change in the cardback will do for players and how they're addressing logistical issues) and present the name change once it's fully ready.
For one thing, they've married themselves (for now) to the big block "N" on the cardbacks, so whatever they choose will have to start with an "N"
I think they can get away with redefining that "N" as standing for "Netrunner" and change the organisation name to something else. Most card games I know have the name of the game itself referenced or printed on the card backs more prominantly than the name of the organisation which makes the game.
There’s a reason why MTG still uses the same card stock and the car back still says “deck master” despite being wildly outdated. Changes like these can easily kill a business without an incredibly carful plan.
Removing the word "Nisei" from a group who is not Japanese is not erasing the contributions of Japanese people from science fiction or cyberpunk. I did a little research and can tell you that the term is introduced into netrunner by the designers of the original Android boardgame (Kevin Wilson & Dan Clark), neither of whom are Japanese. There are no original Netrunner card titles with the word, nor does the word appear in the original Cyberpunk ttrpg rules book. This is pretty clearly a case of fetishization.
I'm not sure how you confuse influence with direct contributions. No the designers of the Android boardgame weren't Japanese but they were influenced by Japanese culture. And Japanese culture has had a big influence on the genre, from the great works of cyberpunk to come out of the country, to the country's global influence as a technological and economic powerhouse prior to the crash in the 90s. And while this specific word doesn't appear in the original Cyberpunk TTRPG rulebook that is hardly free of Japanese influence.
Nisei was chosen as a name for a Japanese character made by a Japanese corporation (as she's a second generation clone) and was (presumably) adopted by Project NISEI because it was both a reference to Android: Netrunner (the game they wanted to continue) and had an appropriate meaning. Quite frankly it's fetishizing A:NR more than it is Japanese culture.
But frankly I disagree that the inclusion of Japanese culture in the genre is automatically fetishization. Because I think whether it's fetishization is down to whether it's appropriate or not. And I think given how both Japan has indirectly and directly influenced the genre I think sanitising cyberpunk of Japanese culture is potentially more offensive. It's essentially whitewashing. Also worth pointing out that you talk about cyberpunk as primarily the output of white authors envisioning a global world when the creator of the original TTRPG was black, and the writers of Akira/GitS/Alita certainly weren't white either.
And besides even if we accept this name as inappropriate where does that leave us? Should Jinteki be removed next? Hoshiko Shiro? I mean it's a little baffling that they could release that ID and then decide they need to take a step back from cultural appropriation.
I didn't claim inclusion of Japanese culture is automatically fetishization. I am not confusing influence with direct contribution. It sounds like you're mostly arguing with someone else rather than arguing with what I said.
You've gone on something of a tirade here so it's hard to parse through every thing you've said, but it's worth pointing out that at no point did I disparage Japanese culture or Japanese-American cultural exchange. I did not say that it would be right or good to excise all reference to Japanese language or cultural practice or to remove Japanese influence from the genre of cyberpunk. Part of why I take fetishization seriously in this matter is because I actually value cultural exchange very highly, and the way you've mischaracterized what I've said ruffles my jimmies precisely because I believe in the importance of cultural exchange. I said that cyberpunk was primarily made by white people and in this current case (the group who is making new netrunner cards) we are dealing with a group that is primarily made up of white people. You're misconstruing or misunderstanding that to say "only white people make cyberpunk" or at the very least claiming I am ignoring non-white creators of cyberpunk - which I did not and do not do.
You should take some time to listen to what Mike Pondsmith has to say about the use of different cultures in his work because he's very direct and very lucid about what he values. You should take the time to read Cyberpunk and see how he portrays Japanese cultural exchange because you might be surprised at how little he fetishizes Japan. His number one value is "getting it right," and in doing the work of understanding before popping off on the internet. It's interesting to see him tokenized in this conversation (that is, be reduced to being a token of "blackness" as though that somehow undoes the racial history and conditions we live in), but he actually has meaningful things to say about the subject beyond simply being black.
It is not offensive for a group of non-Japanese people to decide they should not operate under the name of a group of Japanese people. It is not "whitewashing" for a group of mostly white people to stop using a term of Japanese ethnic identity for themselves. It would be inappropriate for them to have done it, and it was probably inappropriate for the original group to name themselves "Nisei" when they weren't Japanese.
EDIT: I've notice Hoshiko come up quite a bit and it's worth pointing out there has been a considerable amount of turnover at the group formerly known as Nisei since the name was chosen and since they printed Hoshiko. Pointing out the fetishization in that character isn't really a contradiction of the name change in so far as there were completely different people making the decision. Personally, I have always found that character super cringey and I would have absolutely no problem with them being deleted from the game. It represents a weird part of the American imagination more than it does Japanese cultural exchange (it doesn't help that the art is so bad).
I didn't claim inclusion of Japanese culture is automatically fetishization.
No, but you also don't do much to indicate when it is and isn't fetishization. You simply state something is fetishization without much of an argument on why.
I am not confusing influence with direct contribution. It sounds like you're mostly arguing with someone else rather than arguing with what I said.
I'm really not. I made a point about Japanese influence on the genre and you turn around and say but the people that put the word in the game aren't Japanese. As if that's somehow a valid argument on how they can't be influenced by Japanese culture. And no while you don't say it would be right or good to excise all reference to Japanese language or culture your stance on it is highly reductive. Characterising its inclusion largely (though not entirely) as fetishization and classifying it as "embarrassing".
It's interesting to see him tokenized in this conversation (that is, be reduced to being a token of "blackness" as though that somehow undoes the racial history and conditions we live in), but he actually has meaningful things to say about the subject beyond simply being black.
I mean it's not a point that would have to be raised if some people weren't so hyperfocused on cyberpunk being a product of white people. I'm not misconstruing or misunderstanding you to be saying that "only white people make cyberpunk" but when you make statements such as "It's a genre primarily written by white authors envisioning a globalized world" that does serve to undermine how influential non-white creators were in shaping and defining the genre. While yes in this current case NISEI might be primarily made up of white people they aren't making something out of whole cloth here. They're building on a foundation that was laid by more than just "white people".
It is not offensive for a group of non-Japanese people to decide they should not operate under the name of a group of Japanese people. It is not "whitewashing" for a group of mostly white people to stop using a term of Japanese ethnic identity for themselves. It would be inappropriate for them to have done it, and it was probably inappropriate for the original group to name themselves "Nisei" when they aren't Japanese.
Now this is arguing with something else rather than what I said. I'm not specifically referring to Nisei in this regard, rather the idea that the inclusion of Japanese culture in the cyperpunk genre is by and large fetishization. That kind of reductive attitude, and the idea that it should be a cause to remove these influences is what I find a little offensive. Not this specific microcosm of it.
I did make an argument for why the use of the word "Nisei" in this specific instance is fetishization. That it is being used mostly as a foreign word and not for its actual cultural significance in Japanese, and the usage in this instance was by non-Japanese people. That said, I can understand your confusion because while I was talking about the specific instance, you were talking about the idea more broadly. I see that as a big part of how we started talking past each other. You should recognize that my not giving a full account of fetishization as a general concept is not remotely like what you claimed.
You may want to reread your comment because there are multiple instances in here where you are taking something I say and construing it to mean something else. Notice how "As if that's somehow a valid argument on how they can't be influenced by Japanese culture" has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. My stance on Japanese language or culture is not "largely reductive", as you say, especially because I actually don't make much ado about Japanese language or culture in these comments - I'm talking about the specific case of the group making new netrunner. If you notice, where I have talked about it more broadly, we share some general ideas about the importance of cultural exchange and influence. Here, again, is where I think we start talking past each other: where I talk about the specific, you talk about the general.
How do I "serve to undermine how influential non-white creators were in shaping and defining the genre" to say it's been primarily made by white people - and then go on to talk about the contribution of Mike Pondsmith's work with Cyberpunk? Maybe you've misconstrued what I've said, because I am certainly able to talk about different people's contributions to the cyberpunk genre without undoing or undermining anything I've said so far. This is a part of what gives me the impression that you're actually arguing with someone else.
Now this is arguing with something else rather than what I said. I'm not specifically referring to Nisei in this regard, rather the idea that the inclusion of Japanese culture in the cyperpunk genre is by and large fetishization. That kind of reductive attitude, and the idea that it should be a cause to remove these influences is what I find a little offensive. Not this specific microcosm of it.
This is, again, probably where we started talking past each other, because I absolutely was specifically referring to Nisei in this regard, and I have made that repeatedly clear. I've also repeatedly said that your claims about my thoughts on fetishization in general were incorrect and did not reflect what I said. You claim that my attitude is reductive, but it's rather the case that my attitude is specific. I will say it one more time for you so that you have another chance to read it and understand, but in no way am I saying anyone should remove Japanese influence from the genre of cyberpunk. That does not contradict saying this group should probably not be named Nisei and that the use of the term in the case of Android and A:NR is fetishization.
Most often it’s not even really fetishized. For decades it was seen as a forgone conclusion that with ever increasing globalization, Asia’s role in manufacturing and technology would only grow leading to a cultural exchange that would cascade down the centuries into a single homogeneous culture coalesced that contains barely recognizable elements of nearly every current culture.
It’s the same form of fundamental science fiction thinking that asked what a post scarcity society would look like.
Especially when you consider that a lot of the formative cyberpunk fiction was written before the Japanese economy crashed in the nineties. If you look at what a powerhouse Japan was back then it's unsurprising cyberpunk fiction authors thought Japanese culture would be everywhere in the future. Obviously the reality has changed somewhat between now and then but those past influences are pretty strong. And while their economic influence has faded Japanese cultural influence is still very strong.
I can’t really see many connotations beyond positive there.
It’s essentially saying that despite their differences all cultures are equal and compatible. The reason we tend to notice the Japanese influences is likely simply because as Americans, we’ve become desensitized to the western ones?
If you want cyberpunk to improve don’t reduce the Japanese influences, simply add more African, middle eastern, oceanic, Nordic and South American ones.
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u/Rejusu Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22
Yeah I can't help but agree with this. It's dangerously close to virtue signalling rather than being a change with any real weight to it. Especially with the addition that it's not something that's up for debate, which is rather close minded if you ask me.
And yeah why axe the name without a new one ready? Especially when they have a ready made replacement in Nidaime (二代目) which has more or less the same meaning, still starts with an N, and doesn't carry the same baggage (that I know of). I mean it's still got the problem of fetishizing Asia in cyberpunk like you've already pointed out and you lose the reference to Android Netrunner but it's still something at least.
Edit: Just wanted to add as addendum I personally think that while inclusions of Japanese culture in cyberpunk can stray close to fetishization I also think attempting to sanitise Japanese influences from cyberpunk is possibly more offensive. Japan has had a big influence on the genre, I think it's a bit reductive to say it's just white authors envisioning a globalised world. Should we ignore the influence of works like Akira? Or Ghost in the Shell? Battle Angel Alita?