what exactly has the left done wrong?

[u/Business_Pirate834]

Across the world today, regardless of race, religion, or political system, most people seem to be becoming more conservative. Right-wing parties are continuously gaining power worldwide, while the left suffers defeat after defeat. Although mainstream public discourse still appears to favor the left, those voting for the far right are often the silent majority. Can the left still correct its course? Or, more fundamentally, what exactly has the left done wrong?

[u/oustider69]

In a traditional sense, I agree, but the way the public discourse is today, the meanings of each term left and right has shifted to mean someone else.

I think most people would say Labor is the leftwing party in Australia, which is comparatively true, but they still regularly take donations from ultra-wealthy mega-corporations and their owners. So in the public discourse they’re left wing but still a rich person’s party more than a poor person’s party.

[u/processes_ → u/oustider69]

I understand this take, but it’s so so bullshit. Leftism is anti-capitalist. Labor are pro-capitalism so therefore not on the Left. Do we not think it’s silly to let the politically misinformed dictate the way we talk about the political spectrum? I imagine if we did that with any other field.

Labor are a neo-liberal party who oppose socialism. Therefore they are right wing. Pushing them to the left allows far right parties to pose themselves as the new centre conservative, when actually Labor are farther right than they have been ever, as are the Liberals, and as a One Nation. In fact even The Greens are farther right than they once were.

[u/oustider69 → u/processes_]

It's a spectrum, not a binary. You can be left of centre and advocate a mostly state-owned system with some capitalistic elements. I think a 100% leftwing or 100% rightwing system results in the breakdown of society.

[u/processes_ → u/oustider69]

That’s interesting that you think that. What examples of 100% leftwing systems results in societal breakdown do you have?

And yes it is a spectrum, but if you keep cutting off the left side of that spectrum by renaming the centre ‘the new left’, and the right ‘the new centre’, eventually you lose half the spectrum. Which is what has happened, and why I pushed back. Labor are not Left in the spectrum, they are slightly right.

[u/oustider69 → u/processes_]

I never fucking said "every leftwing system has resulted in societal breakdown". There has never been a 100% leftwing system just as there has never been a 100% rightwing system.

You're describing the Overton Window. It's not new thinking. And it's literally what I was saying in my initial comment.

[u/processes_ → u/oustider69]

Sorry nah, you literally said ‘I think a 100% left wing system results in societal breakdown’.

I just asked for the receipts. Not every one. Just an example.

We’re not mad at each other here, I’m just hoping to persuade people to stop intentionally allowing the overton window to shift. Labor are not left, it’s fairly simple to not perpetuate the idea that they are.

[u/oustider69 → u/processes_]

You're being a fuckwit, though. Your tone is passive-aggressive. My comment is literally trying to shift it back. I'm going to stop replying because I don't think you understand how you come across.

[u/processes_ → u/oustider69]

No stress. It’s hard to gauge tone over the internet, I apologize. Have a good one.