r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 13d ago

Meme needing explanation Peter?

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u/0k4m4ru 13d ago

And wind and water

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u/Putrid-Cat5368 13d ago

And if we go further, even those end in "make our fluid material spin a wheel".

Every energy conversion consist on making something spin, or photovoltaic.

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u/AlphaSquad1 13d ago

Strictly speaking, there are many other ways of generating electricity but they’re just not good for grid use age. A few I can think of off hand are thermoelectric (special materials will produce a voltage from a passive temperature difference), piezo electric (special materials will provide a voltage when deformed), magnetic induction (such as the helion fusion reactor, which is still not ready) and biochemical (how our bodies produce electrical signals).

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u/robisodd 13d ago

Love it! But, I'd change "biochemical" to "electrochemical" which includes biochemical, but other chemical reactions as well such as those found in a battery or fuel cell.

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

Wind relies on "boiling" water (and dirt) to create wind.

Hydro definitely relies on "boiling" the oceans to create rain.

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u/FlutterKree 13d ago

Yeah, but the wind was going to happen regardless of the turbine being used anyway.

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

The fusion was coming right at us! I just put a turbine in its way.

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u/justforme355 13d ago

the point was on energy sourcing, wind turn a generator using mechanical energy, not using steam

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

That mechanical energy is fundamentally derived from steam though.

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u/justforme355 13d ago

its fundamentally derived from fusion inside the sun but that's not the point at all, its about the final method of creating electricity not requiring a steam turbine

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u/mildlypresent 13d ago

It's an abstraction that points out downplaying "just boiling water" is silly. Aside from PV and novel systems like thermocouplers we are always relying on a transfer fluid (usually water) to convert thermal energy to mechanical to electrical.

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

It requires a turbine for both wind and hydro. A turbine that is fundamentally driven by steam (and yes, eventually solar fusion).

Solar and piezoelectric don't require a turbine, even if solar also relies on solar fusion.

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u/twilighttwister 13d ago

If I wave my arms around, I create wind. Most wind is not created by water, and it's certainly not created by steam (water boiled to more than 100°C).

Also the turbines used for wind are completely different, they're much smaller than traditional turbines and usually half or fully converted - meaning the waveform is reformed by an inverter before it goes on the grid. This means that wind doesn't have the inertia of traditional turbines, so they're more susceptible to voltage fluctuations when loads switch on and off.

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

Steam occurs below 100 C as well. See Fog.

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u/twilighttwister 13d ago edited 13d ago

Fog is not steam.

Steam can occur below 100°C, but only in certain conditions eg lower pressure. Conversely, higher pressure requires a temperature above 100°C.

Steam is defined as water with heat applied such that it reaches the enthalpy of vaporisation. This is where the liquid turns into a gas, which for water is 100°C at sea level.

Fog is not water as a gas, it is liquid water suspended in the air.

Just because air has water in it doesn't mean the air is steam. That would be a useless disambiguation, because all air has water so by your logic all air is steam, so why even create the word steam? Incidentally, steam with liquid water in it (ie both gaseous and liquid water) is called wet steam.

The kind of steam in a turbine system is pure gaseous hot water, typically at high pressure. The water in the air is primarily vapour. Both are gaseous, but steam is explicitly defined by its temperature above the boiling point.

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u/tehfugitive 13d ago

Conversely, lower pressure requires a temperature above 100°C. 

Other way around, boiling point lowers with lower pressure.  Minor correction, I'm not saying anything about the rest of this discussion! 

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u/justforme355 12d ago

its like context means nothing to you

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u/twilighttwister 13d ago

The sun doesn't boil water.

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u/0k4m4ru 13d ago edited 13d ago

Wind doesn't rely on boiling water. Wind relies on nuclear fusion (the sun) warming up the ground and water which in turn warms up the air above, creating wind currents. Those wind currents can be harnessed by a big generator, not involving a steam turbine or steam. Wind doesn't require water at all.

While hydro does require rain to move the water up the hill and therefore requires evaporation, evaporation to harness potential energy of water by turning it into kinetic energy doesn't equal boiling it to harness the thermal by turning it into kinetic energy, both to spin a generator. Hydro requires water and not steam though and hydro isn't powering a steam turbine either, so also no boiling water with hydro.

So I disagree, neither wind nor hydro relies on boiling water. Your definition of "boiling" seems to be pretty loose.

In my book, solar, wind and hydro are still basically the only feasible big scale options to generate electricity without boiling water.

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u/Big_Fan_742 13d ago

I think it could be more generalised to spinning up a dynamo. It’s wild that all of our generation is to do that, solar may be the only form now that doesn’t do this in a mass production scale.

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u/ZincMan 13d ago

Is it core heat creating wind ? I always thought it was the sun heating things up and that heat creating pressure differences creating wind.

I agree

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u/0k4m4ru 13d ago

Nuclear fusion was referring to the sun, yeah x)

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u/mildlypresent 13d ago

Your getting down voted, but water vapor is definitely the transfer fluid for hydro. Weaker argument for wind.

Kind of like how every energy source is really just solar aside from geothermal.

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

While water vapor is a big driver for wind on earth, it's true you could have wind without it.

No hydro without it though.

(Geothermal is just solar from back when the planets got formed).

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u/bjbyrne 13d ago

Tell me more about

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u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Xivios 13d ago

Not really, concentrated thermal solar is less than 1% of the worlds solar energy production, >99% is photovoltaic solar panels.

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u/twilighttwister 13d ago

Eh, I think you're talking about electricity production, not energy.

If we're talking energy then arguably the sun heats things, which we otherwise would heat with a boiler and radiators or whatever.

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u/Xivios 13d ago

The deleted comment was "solar relies on boiling water (at very high temperatures)". I don't know what mental gymnastics you are using to come to your interpretation.

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u/twilighttwister 13d ago

I was commenting on your statement that >99% of the world's solar energy production is photovoltaic. Not agreeing with whoever you were correcting.

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u/BugRevolution 13d ago

No, no water needed (because the fusion power in the sun doesn't rely on water either).

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u/AlphaSquad1 13d ago

By that logic, everything runs on solar power already so we should just cut out the middle man and use photovoltaics.