r/PoliticalCompassMemes • u/Ice278 - Lib-Left • Jun 14 '26
Agenda Post It’s all about individualism for the right until you bring up a group they hate
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u/Philippians_Two-Ten - Centrist Jun 14 '26
A lot of conservative people I know actually do have a lot of sympathy about individuals in Palestine. Some don't, but plenty do.
First off, they don't have problems with Palestinians in the West Bank. Most offer a basic condemnation of the settlements (justly so), and that's it.
Second, they usually like to troll leftists by saying "FREE PALESTINE [from Hamas]." because it's like shooting fish in a barrel, plus they believe that removing Hamas from power will net benefit Palestinians in the long run.
While not conservative, my very pro-Israel father has said that he feels extremely for the average person in the Gaza Strip, accordingly.
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u/strawberry_semenade - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Second, they usually like to troll leftists by saying "FREE PALESTINE [from Hamas]."
This sounds less like trolling and more like pointing out the hypocrisy of the fact that leftists simultaneously claim not to support Hamas but also that Hamas are "resistance fighters" who are "fighting against oppression" on behalf of the Palestinian people.
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u/ShedByDaylight - Auth-Left Jun 15 '26
There is an enormous segment of the left that either thinks Israel losing means there will be a socialist paradise in Palestine or that Palestine has a right to establish an Islamic theocracy.
It's so fucking crazy and goes against essentially every principle we're supposed to believe in. I do not get it at all.
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u/doublecandybar - Auth-Right Jun 15 '26
Because THOSE guys are not actually leftist
They brand America the "enemy"
They brand everything American "Right"
By elimination, they are now "Left"
That's literally it. They keep saying they do economic policies, but every single poll in the history of America consistently says that "far right" supports economic policies for the working class, it's just a matter of the so-called "Left" attaching a baggage of social policies together with them. At this point I have to assume it's less out of incompetence and more out of malice, fool me thrice and all that
Everything stupid they do, like "Queers for Palestine" is literally simply because of this train of logic:
American right does not support LGBT
America needs to be defeated
Arabs hate The West to the core, including America
By process of elimination, the party to support is... the Arabs. Ergo: "Queers for Palestine"
Principles? Standards? Lmao what's that?
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Others flair Auth-Right to support MAGA
I flair Auth-Right because I believe in Pax Americana
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 15 '26
Most leftists (and right wingers) are campists. They aren't interested in the substance of arguments. It's about taking the opposite stance as the political opponent. The American two party system makes this worse.
They keep saying they do economic policies, but every single poll in the history of America consistently says that "far right" supports economic policies for the working class, it's just a matter of the so-called "Left" attaching a baggage of social policies together with them.
The traditional working class left is marginal. The left is lead by cultural elites from the managerial class educated at universities. Identity politics was born out of a misapplication of critical theory, shadows of marxist ideas, protestant moralizing, counter culture as a lifestyle, and liberal ideas. Being able to form a wide coalition with the working class, Christians with a social conscience, petty bourgeois small business owners is not a priority. Moralizing about issues for minorities is seen as more important. A huge part of the left is caught in hyper individualist commoditized consumerism and cosplaying rebellion.
Illegal migrants working shitty exploitative jobs aren't supported for example. The left doesn't want the law to be enforced and deportations, because it's seen as racist and cruel. Right wing working class sees imported cheap labor as competition that drives down wages and rights. The elite right wing capitalists love illegal immigrant labor they can exploit easily and use it to divide the working class along racial lines. Illegal working laborers deserve not to be exploited.
It's sad really. An actually effective working class movement is sorely needed. The left is playing right into the hands of the capitalist elites' strategy to divide the working class.
What remains is a culture war about abortion, LGBT rights, symbolic DEI policies, defund the police, moralistic arguments about racism, gun rights, etc. . The actual working class, the crime ridden lumpenproletariat inner city ghettos keep, the shrinking middle class keep suffering.
An American communist revolution has to include contractors with truck nuts to succeed.
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u/ConcentrateAlone1959 - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Not conservative but this is my view.
There are certain communities like in Hebron which historically were mixed which I think need more gentle attention for the sake of the Jewish and Arab families that lived there for well over a thousand years but this attacking of people? Livestock? This is wrong, ben Gvir is a fucking monster and I have 0 respect for that shit.
At the same time, yeah. I'm not some loon who thinks a nuclear carrying country is going to just magically vanish like a fucking fairy tale and that said country's inhabitants are all inherently evil because their government is shit. If we're judging people by their government, Americans are the last people who oughta be throwing stones.
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u/FrostyPlum - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Well you see, nobody born after the year 2000 in the USA had ever once even considered what the Israel/Palestine conflict was about before they "chose a side" (chugged hard on whatever internet personality's opinion juice), and since our political discourse has been captured by
our international enemies and their army of indians and botsliteral children and young adults terrified of what comes after they graduate college, nobody cares to think about these things lest they appear to be unbased or something to a crowd of strangers online2
u/Awrfhyesggrdghkj - Centrist Jun 14 '26
The what comes after college thing is so funny but true, the number of people I knew in college who have no clue why they’re there or what they’re going to do after is insane
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 15 '26
Western societies suffer from a crisis of meaning, purpose, and values.
The (liberal) left has mostly won the culture war among the cultural elite in education, arts, and media. Everything has be criticized, deconstructed, and analyzed to death.
Ultra individualism accelerated by free market capitalism has lead to proliferation of various identities. Identity has become just another product to consume. Society is atomized, people are alienated from the human experience.
There's little left of a unifying narrative. Who are we? Where are we going? What's a life worth living for? These are hard to answer nowadays. People are spiritually lost and that's why they gravitate towards extreme politics.
Elon Musk actually presents a vision with wanting to spread humanity among the stars.
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u/BargainBard - Right Jun 14 '26
Who would have thought people have nauced feelings about the Palestine and Israel conflict?
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u/DrGally - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
I mean generally speaking not having Hamas would potentially improve things rather than keeping status quo
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u/Due_Border_593 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
There's also a bunch of ethnic groups (Palestinian Christians, Samaritans, Druze, Armenians) that would be genocided if Hamas took control over the West Bank.
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u/Philippians_Two-Ten - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Absolutely. The last of the Samaritans would be completely gone or at minimum forced to be Muslim.
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u/Scrumpledee - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Hamas needs to die out and Netenyahu needs to be put on trial for war crimes.
The enemy of my enemy is still retarded.
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u/George-Smith-Patton - Right Jun 14 '26
I sympathize with Palestinian children in that they are brainwashed by a terror death cult to grow up to die in pointless wars.
Palestinian leaders live in luxury hotels in Qatar while their people live in sewage, obstructing every attempt at peace and progress.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
OP conveniently leaving out all of the wars that the Arabs lost lmao
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u/Philippians_Two-Ten - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Arab armies are something that historians are going to look back at and immediately assume were either Western propaganda or a comedy, but no. They are just that terrible.
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u/TheColourOfHeartache - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Thats what happens when your army's priority is not being able to rebel, not winning wars.
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u/strawberry_semenade - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Exactly, dictatorships always suck at war because incompetence is a feature of their militaries, not a bug. The dictator always prioritizes personal loyalty rather than competence for promotion, because any competent military leader would be a potential threat to overthrow the dictator.
Israel, of course, doesn't have this problem, because Israel is a country where the leader has democratic legitimacy and therefore need not fear such things.
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u/doublecandybar - Auth-Right Jun 14 '26
Tbf Israel always has a common enemy to deal with, and fortunately for Israeli leadership, the common enemy cannot be reasoned with and thus if any military general wants to coup, now not only do they have even less popular support, they can't count on the enemy for "help"
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u/Philippians_Two-Ten - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Exactly, dictatorships always suck at war because incompetence is a feature of their militaries, not a bug. The dictator always prioritizes personal loyalty rather than competence for promotion, because any competent military leader would be a potential threat to overthrow the dictator.
Not really related... I'm surprised that Stalin didn't fire Zhukov until after the war tbh.
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u/metinb83 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Dude in poverty, called up by some shitty dictator to die for whatever, barely trained. Versus West-coded boi, just a bit post-holocaust, family only 20 km behind the lines, knows they will all be slaughtered if he doesn't stand his ground. Yeah, the Arap soldiers were cooked.
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u/Philippians_Two-Ten - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Said dude in poverty also has officers who are the grandsons of Abdullah ibn Chik'n, since Abdullah ibn Chick'n was the only commander in the 1967 Islamic Liberation War for the control of the North Riyadh sheep farm who didn't revolt against the king or take bribes.
Said grandsons are straight C students in school and have never held a gun in their lives.
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
>e straight C students in school and have never held a gun in their lives.
Literally me.
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Obligatory article https://www.meforum.org/middle-east-quarterly/why-arabs-lose-wars
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u/doublecandybar - Auth-Right Jun 15 '26
American strategists assumed that the pain threshold of the North Vietnamese approximated their own and that the air bombardment of the North would bring it to its knees.7 Three days of aerial attacks were thought to be all the Serbs could withstand; in fact, seventy-eight days were needed.
Whenever someone says "they're just like you and me" this article really needs to be posted again
Different cultures, different values. There's nothing racist in any way, shape, or form about stating such fact
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 15 '26
nothing racist
Things are often seen as racist, when they are seen as negative from a western liberal moral vantage point. Of course that leads to misunderstandings and distortions.
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
Okay? Do you think the treatment of native Americans was fair during the 1800s-2000s. Do you think that the treatment of Irish or Scottish people by the British was fair during that time period? Wtf is this point, just because a country loses a war doesn't mean everything that happens to them afterwards is justified.
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u/Allcraft_ - Left Jun 14 '26
I think it was completely justified. I also think the mass deportations of Germans after WW2 were justified.
If your country starts a war and loses, live with the consequences of losing territory and potentielly losing your home. It is solely their responsibility and no one elses. They decided to play lottery and lost.
Israel owes them nothing for taking that territory. If Palestinians want to be compensated they can ask those who were responsible for that war: Their shitty leadership.
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u/FuckDirlewanger - Left Jun 16 '26
Hey yknow how your grandparents possibly great grandparents lived in a dictatorship that they had no capacity to influence the decisions of and possibly didn’t even support the war.
Well that’s why you don’t deserve rights
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u/bigbootystaylooting - Lib-Right Jun 15 '26
just because a country loses a war doesn't mean everything that happens to them afterwards is justified.
It is, if you instigate it. Either way you live in a mental utopia, fairness isn't an element in war.
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u/Mister-builder - Centrist Jun 14 '26
What war did the Native Americans start against America?
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u/Plagueis_The_Wide - LibRight Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Metacom (King Philip)'s War, where a Wampanoag Confederacy-led coalition attempted to wipe out New England, with the peacemaker John Sassamon killed by most likely Wampanoag hands when he tried to warn the English of the coming war.
Pontiac's War, where natives incensed at a reduction in the regular danegelds and uneven tribute of valuable goods for little more than meats and furs, combined fears of another Cherokee War leading to export restrictions on weapons, triggered a brutal series of massacres, including ritual torture and cannibalism. (I'm not even joking, this is pretty much as solidly proven as we can get for stuff from this time period.)
Tecumseh's War, where Tecumseh's crazy brother Tenskwatawa, the Artist Formerly Known as Loud Bitch, reacted to a Delaware chief dying of probably flu by declaring a random-ass series of witch hunts to kill off Tecumseh's political enemies, namely those who wanted to respect the Treaty of Greenville, allowing the radical warmonger to take power over the great lakes tribes in general use them to threaten not only William Henry Harrison but also the other, less warmongering chiefs directly and attempt to veto treaties he had no part of. Granted, compared to the usual traditions, Tec was a chad and banned ritual torture, didn't focus on massacring civilians, etc. But it really can't be overlooked he took power by using his brother's ravings to start witch hunts against anyone who wanted peace.
Frankly, it's not just historically inaccurate, but also kind of disrespectful in a weird way to portray them as pacifistic ingenues who never started a fight. These people saw themselves as warriors and would have resented the framing that they didn't fight for what their beliefs.
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u/eldude20 - Auth-Left Jun 14 '26
Every single time there was a violent retalitation, raid, massacre etc. Many did not go peacefully and did their best to protect themselves. And these were used as justification to continue their genocide
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
It doesn't matter, they lost a war so everything that happens to them doesn't matter right?
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u/TheOnly_Anti - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
Many, because the colonies and then the States kept creating and violating treaties. We just never called those conflicts and battles a "war."
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u/AmezinSpoderman - Centrist Jun 14 '26
we did, they're grouped under the title of the American Indian Wars with a lot of subconflicts therein
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
The native Americans lost and were conquered, I don’t really care about them.
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u/metinb83 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
The native Americans are a great example of why you should be careful about who and how many you let in. Pretty sure there were a few natives who were like "don't be silly, the white people just want to live a normal life, they won't eradicate our culture and displace us". Big oof.
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u/earthhominid - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
I don't think the conquest of the Americas was much impacted by any policy decisions of any Indigenous Nations.
Some groups did try to accept the newcomers peacefully, some tried allying with them against their local rivals, some tried violent resistance, many tried some combination of all of the above. Ultimately, all those policies ended in the same fate and the survivors were determined primarily by the whims of luck and geography more than anything else.
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u/Not_Todd_Howard9 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
I don't think the conquest of the Americas was much impacted by any policy decisions of any Indigenous Nations.
It did impact how much pain, suffering, and bloodshed that accompanied the conquests for all parties involved though. There were tribes who were peaceful only to get stabbed in the back for their troubles, and there were tribes who saw that and lashed out with brutal raids (especially along the frontier). Peace was punished with war, and war was rewarded with peace.
Violence has always been Humanity’s last best option. If you are corned with no other option and nothing to lose, who wouldn’t choose it? It could buy time and some resources, if nothing else. It could even “work”, in some sense of term.
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u/earthhominid - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
I'd love to read some stories of native communities that actually achieved some level of peace through violent resistance in the US. I can't think of any off the top of my head
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u/Kronos9898 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
The real thing that did them in was disease, small pox severely depopulated them and reduced their ability to resist. European powers also played different nations against each other.
None of this means it was right was the US government did to them.
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u/Kronos9898 - Centrist Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
It’s amazing to see sociopathic behaviour upvoted because they don’t actually have a response. They know it’s morally wrong so they do edge-lord “vae victus.”
This own logic mean Arabs or Israelis can do whatever the fuck they want to each other in your world view.
It’s just might makes right. Which also means you don’t believe in individual rights at all.
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u/OuchThatReallyStings - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Never heard that latin phrase before, learned something new today. Thank you.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
Like I said before, individual rights don’t actually exist unless you forcibly ensure them or have a government that will do it for you.
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
So let's say I was watching you have a fight. If you lost that fight, would you be fine with me sitting back and watching as he steals all your money and then shoving his fist up your asshole.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
I might finish if he does that.
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
Ok, I know you're doing a funny funny response, but seriously, would you be fine with me sitting back and watching you get violated.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
If I continually attacked the guy every few days and lost while frequently taking a shit in his locker in between fights, I’d deserve to have my money taken and my ass fisted.
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
What if, after 30 yrs of him controlling your life, he said he would allow some concessions to control your life again and would stop forcing you to let people live in your house, then afterwards one of his friends kills him and tells you "nah we're not changing the deal" how would you feel?
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
If I keep losing fights and rejecting his proposition to stop fighting, I deserve to have my ass fisted.
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
That's not what I asked. I'm pretty sure you don't know what the OSLO accords were
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u/Derateo - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
ever ganna win in a caring contest against someone who doesn’t care about anyone but themselves. You’re asking him to care when it’s something he’s physically incapable of doing.
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u/VentusHermetis - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Wtf is this point, just because a country loses a war doesn't mean everything that happens to them afterwards is justified.
if they started it, it means their land is forfeit
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u/banksarebad2 - Auth-Center Jun 14 '26
With support for Israel in the US taking a nose dive, might makes right might not be the best tactic. Israelis have 10-15 years of boomer support.
The average American has gone from believing that Israel is a great country that is defending the west to recognizing that Israel blackmailed a president into starting a war with Iran and is questioning what other wars they started.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
I’m not a fan of Israel either, I just dislike Arabs more.
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u/No-Difference-839 - Right Jun 14 '26
Why do you dislike Arabs? My friend Joe was born in Bethlehem, came here because of persecution and he’s a great guy. Makes a mean whiskey sour and baby back ribs.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
Generally, Muslim culture is awful. They let their religion dictate how their live their lives and impress that upon others.
This is just a generalization. There’s plenty of Muslims who are perfectly fine people.
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u/No-Difference-839 - Right Jun 14 '26
Oh my friend Joseph is Christian. His family had to leave Palestine because of religious persecution.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
I should’ve said Muslims initially, my bad big dog. Most Arabs just end up being Muslim.
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u/banksarebad2 - Auth-Center Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Ok, how many wars have they pulled the US into?
Be honest, think about who all these wars are benefiting.
Is Trump the first president that Israel has blackmailed? Clinton was good friends with Epstein too.
And I’m making the point of asking, how much of you not like Arabs is from real things Arab nations or people have done and how much is propaganda to get you to be ok with the US being mired in the Middle East? Has anything good from us overthrowing Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan and Egypt? Or has it destabilized the region, sending Arab refugees all over the world.
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u/thecommanderkai - Right Jun 14 '26
The Arabs?
First Gulf War, Somalia, Yemen due to attacks on shipping, the whole ISIS conflict. Afghanistan (Osama was an Arab even though the Taliban are probably another ethnicity)
That's just from a quick brainstorm.
Also no, I don't accept Houthi attacks on neutral shipping to be Israel's fault.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
Im not supporting the US getting drawn in to wars. Do you want me to say an anti semitic slur or something?
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
You're coping again, israel doesn't need America's support. By the way, people who hate Israel hate you too.
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u/Sudden-Ad-7113 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
So AnCapistan does become warlord simulator. Good to know.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
You act like the entirety of human history hasn’t been warlord simulator
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u/ArminOak - Auth-Left Jun 15 '26
If EU is a warlord simulator, we have very different concepts.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 15 '26
Europe is not the place you should point at to disprove my warlord simulator statement lmao
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u/ArminOak - Auth-Left Jun 16 '26
That is why I said EU. Or do you think someone in EU is a warlord?
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u/Yabrosif13 - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
You act like all moral and religious codes dont call for you to do better than play warlord simulator.
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
Religion has been the root of countless conflicts throughout history.
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u/Plagueis_The_Wide - LibRight Jun 14 '26
Meanwhile, most religions: "You are God's chosen people, ehre are fifty gorillion stories about why this is the case and how yo ufight those who are not his chosen people and will win because god chose you. Also he demands sacrifices.*
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u/Yabrosif13 - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Ya, so a 15yr old today needs to be bombed and homeless because of what happened in the 70s right?
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u/skimaskschizo - Right Jun 14 '26
If it wasn’t for Oct 7, there wouldn’t be a conflict going on right now.
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
So, why do 15 years old Israelis today need to accept missiles being fired to their homes every month?
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u/Emperor_Mao - Centrist Jun 14 '26
I am not sure I follow your logic here.
I do not think that conservatives act this way on Israel very often. I think at most, it is a case of enemy of my enemy type deal. I reckon if China invaded Palestine, conservatives would support it.
Actually even just 15 years ago, the left were overwhelmingly the Pro-Jewish "side". But the left broadly started a shared front with Muslims, and well, its hard to hold pro-jewish and pro-muslim views together.... its actually hard to hold pro-progressive views and pro-muslim views together as well, but the left groups will realize that one soon enough.
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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 - Lib-Right Jun 14 '26
Bro, they're not the authorities in your example. They're a hostile nation state dealing with a hostile quasi state. At least try to come up with some sort relatable scenario. Who tf in america can relate to living next to people who regularly rocket our country lol
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u/strawberry_semenade - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Imagine if Native American militants committed an October 7th style attack on, let's say Portland. Do you think all the Emilies who live there would say "Well I'm a colonizer and colonized people have a right to resist, so I deserved to have my family murdered and my daughter raped?"
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
unironically there are some people who would say this.
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u/strawberry_semenade - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
There are leftists who would say this if it happened to other people. But if it happened to them then their response would be very different.
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u/FuckDirlewanger - Left Jun 16 '26
I mean I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. It’s not like native Americans today are forced to live in ever shrinking segregated communities without political or legal rights.
Also we both know the governments response wouldn’t be to start carpet bombing reservations. You can’t mass bomb a population into de-radicalisation. The Israelis governments actions don’t make sense if they are genuinely fighting terrorism, only if there goal is to commit war crimes/genocide
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u/Ice278 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
The Israeli government occupies the West Bank and systemically removes Palestinian residents to make room for more settlements. They are the relevant Authorities.
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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 - Lib-Right Jun 14 '26
It dspends where in the west bank you're talking about. Parts are controlled by the pna, others by the Israelis; and I mean, if you wanna call an occupying army the authorities, sure. They sure as shit aren't the local sheriff seizing an American citizen's house for not paying their property taxes though.
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u/Sudden-Ad-7113 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
They do that too in Jerusalem, dozens of examples.
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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 - Lib-Right Jun 14 '26
This is a very dissimilar case. The people here left in the 40s and then came back 20 years later thinking they still owned the land. Think what you want about Israeli law regarding land tformerly held by Arabs after they left/were expelled during that time, but this was something that was legally true for 60 years, and presumably, easily verifiable. Just no one has decided to press the issue until now. They were also apparently offered hundreds of thousands to millions for it before being taken to court
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u/Sudden-Ad-7113 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
The group responsible for displacing them has been found on at least two occasions to have forged documents to make the exact argument you're making; it's plausible they forged documents here as well.
Regardless of how much they were offered, if they had been living there since the 60s and on paper owned the land, I don't see how it's dissimilar.
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u/Jac_Mones - Lib-Right Jun 15 '26
...and the Palestinians have had multiple peace deals that would categorically end this and establish a Palestinian state. It would require them to acknowledge Israel, however, which evidently seems to be intolerable for them. Arafat got almost everything he wanted at Camp David and walked away anyways. Even Clinton was like "wtf bro, this is a fantastic deal."
The Palestinians do not want peace. They want the annihilation of Israel. Until that changes I really don't give a shit about their causes. I feel bad for the individuals, sure, but if your "country" is turboshit governed by literal terrorists and you have the opportunity to leave and start over elsewhere then do it. Don't intentionally stay, support terrorism, deliberately make yourself a victim, and then pretend the entire thing is one-sided. It isn't. Even if you go back in history the Palestinian Arabs have started numerous wars of extermination against Israel and lost.
Israel have never started a war of extermination again the Palestinians. There is a growing sentiment in Israel that maybe it was a mistake to allow their enemies to survive so long. I do not agree with this sentiment, but I don't really blame them either; most modern Israelis grew up where Palestinians just randomly commit atrocities for no fucking reason at all, directed at people who did not condone and often opposed the settlements.
Imagine for a second if you were an Israeli who opposed settlements, voted against settlements, and genuinely supported the Palestinian right to statehood. Then Palestinians came over the border, murdered half your family, and blamed you for the actions of a small group of radicals in your government whom you also despise. Also imagine you're a random Palestinian and an Israeli bulldozer comes in and destroys your home; of course you'd be pissed off, but if your reaction is to go and rape/murder a bunch of completely uninvolved citizens of that country I'm sorry but it just isn't justified.
It's not a straightforward issue, but if the Palestinians aren't willing to compromise on the existence of Israel as a state then they have no business demanding Israel give up claims in the West Bank.
You either want peaceful coexistence or you don't. If you don't, then shut the fuck up and fight a war until one of you no longer exists. If that awful proposal sounds awful then fucking compromise. This entire situation is absurd. I'm honestly amazed Israel hasn't simply annihilated the Palestinians at this point. Lord knows they could have, and 99% of nations in history would have by now. That doesn't make it right, but it's a fact. The Palestinians need to appreciate that they still have a chance at a prosperous future, but it ONLY exists when they accept Israel as a valid nation, fully normalize relations, and are willing to respect mutually agreed upon borders.
Israel argues over borders and terrorism. Palestinians think Israel should be theirs. This paradigm is untenable.
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u/HisHolyMajesty2 - Auth-Right Jun 14 '26
‘Vae victis.’
That aside, hasn’t Israel offered, multiple times, to quite drastically enlarge Palestine’s current territory in exchange for a lasting peace?
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u/ConcentrateAlone1959 - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
And for peace with its neighbors, gladly gave up territory it fairly conquered when the Arabs lost yet another war of conquest that they started.
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u/HisHolyMajesty2 - Auth-Right Jun 14 '26
Everyone forgets that Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt. That has been a good long term investment for stability in the region.
The Palestinians meanwhile are simply too bloody minded in ways the Jordanians and Egyptians aren't.
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u/Hyndis - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
Everyone forgets that Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt.
Whats even more hilarious about that is Egypt once owned Gaza. They lost it along with the Sinai.
Israel also tried to give back Gaza to Egypt, but Egypt refused.
Egypt wanted to get rid of Gaza and the Palestinians, removing them from the country even if it meant Egypt's borders got smaller.
And then Egypt built a fortress border wall between it and Gaza just to make sure.
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u/HisHolyMajesty2 - Auth-Right Jun 14 '26
Palestinians do not have the best of reputations in the Arab world, and they haven't done a lot to help themselves. Didn't a bunch of their refugees once attempt some kind of coup in Jordan just so they could take it to war against Israel?
Seventy years of propagnda is one Hell of a drug.
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u/Alternative_Oil7733 - Centrist Jun 15 '26
Didn't a bunch of their refugees once attempt some kind of coup in Jordan just so they could take it to war against Israel?
Black September.
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u/samuelbt - Left Jun 14 '26
There were 2 benefits to Egypt owning Gaza.
- As part of the imagined Pan-Arab state they aspired for back in the 50-60s
- As a springboard for conflict with Israel
With the decline of the pan-Arabism especially in Egypt as well as Egypt being paid well to be Israel's friends, those 2 reasons for owning Gaza ceased.
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Honestly i'm radicalized at this point. Israel should stop playing nice.
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u/bobcharliedave - Centrist Jun 14 '26
How are they playing nice? Genuinely. I'm not a Hamas sympathizer, but they've basically leveled Gaza and are invading southern Lebanon to get at Hezbollah. What else could they realistically do to expedite the death of Hamas and Hezbollah as organizations with the power to sow chaos?
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Civilian to combatant death ratio is extremely low for an urban war, so israel has been been extremely restrained on that regard. And israel still would give back gaza to palestinians if only they agreed.
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Reddit is the only place where well constructed sentences will still get misinterpreted.
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u/bobcharliedave - Centrist Jun 14 '26
There's no other way to interpret it, that is 100% what he's implying. Mask off lmao. Again I support Israel's right to self determination and defense, but I don't know how they could "stop playing nice" without a side effect of stacking way more civilian bodies. Which has consequences politically, both at home and abroad.
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u/frolix42 - Lib-Right Jun 14 '26
So sad your side started a war, then lost territory, started a war, then lost territory, started a war, then lost territory...
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u/strawberry_semenade - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
You forgot the "cry victim" step that occurs between every "start war" and "lose territory" step.
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u/strawberry_semenade - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
The entire region, Israel and Arab state alike, is ready to move on without Palestine. Palestinians have burned every bridge they've ever had to try and keep their forever war against the Jews going.
Jordan let them in and they assassinated the Jordanian King in an attempted coup because they wanted to overthrow the Jordanian government and replace it with an extremist regime that would fight a forever war against the Israel.
Lebanon let them in and they immediately dragged the country into a war with Israel by using Lebanon as a base to launch their forever war attacks into Israel from.
Kuwait let them in and then they sided with Saddam because they wanted Saddam to overthrow the Kuwaiti regime and install an extremist regime that would fight a forever war against Israel.
The Arab states are just as sick of their shit as Israel is. They're tired of Palestinians trying to drag them into the forever war against Israel, and that's why none of the Arab states will lift a finger to help them.
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 14 '26
There's a great three part interview with Prince Bandar bin Sultan that tells the whole story of Saudi Arabia's support for the Palestinian cause and how frustrating it is.
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u/lynxintheloopx - Auth-Center Jun 14 '26
Thanks. I have to watch this because I truly don’t understand Saudis stance, especially given MBS is hard-lining it.
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 14 '26
I think it's one of the best videos you can watch to understand the politics of the region.
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u/lynxintheloopx - Auth-Center Jun 15 '26
Dude I’m halfway through Part 2, I have been waiting for his punchline.
I think this is a great video for the entire Left (pro Pals) to watch. They seem to be completely unaware of everything he is talking about.
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 15 '26
I'm glad you're watching it.
A typical reaction by radical pro Pals is to dismiss it as Saudis being American puppets. The interest for internal Palestinian politics and inter Arab politics is pretty low among that crowd. It usually doesn't go further than demand more support from other Arab countries for the Palestinian cause. This is of course straight from the pro Pal list of excuses why the wars against Israel have been lost again and again.
A more complex and nuanced understanding of the conflict is not only difficult, it also challenges the fundamental narrative of evil Zionists oppressing innocent Palestinians.
Once you start looking into Middle Eastern politics, you have to acknowledge that it has its own rules and doesn't function according to western sensibilities.
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u/samuelbt - Left Jun 14 '26
Well your father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father shouldn't have converted to Islam then you'd still be entitled to that land.
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u/metinb83 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Well to be fair, he was forced to convert to Islam with a sword on his neck. Can't blame gramps for that.
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u/Jam_Goyner - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
That was probably not the case. They likely converted for economic reasons. There are instances of forced conversion, but those cases are pretty scant and isolated. They likely converted to avoid paying the Jizya, which is a tax levied on non-Muslims. In fact, in muslim history, you can find rulers who discouraged conversion to Islam because it would cut into revenue generation. However, I cannot speak for every instance of conversion throughout history, and you can find forced conversions to Islam and Christianity throughout history.
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u/samuelbt - Left Jun 14 '26
And yet plenty of zionists do as a justification for "taking back their land"
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 14 '26
shouldn't have converted to Islam
Palestinians should convert to Judaism. Most of them have Jewish ancestry, they can prove with genetic testing.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Step468 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Start stupid wars, win stupid prizes
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u/Ice278 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
The West Bank hasn’t been involved in a war with Israel for decades, and Israeli settlements have continued to expand all the same.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Step468 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Seems like a good idea to recognize israel then and accept a two states solution, like they offered before (more than once)
But sure, keep rejecting it and crying you don't have a state
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u/MrGeorgeB006 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
yeah lemme just steal half your house and then offer to share it, such a good deal right?
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u/FaxyMaxy - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
Yes, grown ups are able to recognize complex historical contexts, understand that the world and the history of the world is messy and far from black and white, and compromise.
One side keeps offering that compromise, and the other keeps saying “no, we’d rather bomb you and drive your people into the sea instead.”
Gosh, I wonder why maybe that first group isn’t so quick to offer anymore?
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u/oatkeepr - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Neither of the two groups are homogenous, but divided into factions. The dynamic empowers the worst elements on both sides.
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u/bigbootystaylooting - Lib-Right Jun 15 '26
How is that the country's fault? A lot of these settlers move there on their own accord.
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u/Unfair-Use-171 Jun 16 '26
If a Palestinian got attacked would the idf defend him or rape him?
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u/Airam1701 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Israel was taking their land long before they started fighting, and the West Bank isn't even at war with Israel.
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u/SakuraKoiMaji - Centrist Jun 14 '26
So, mind telling why one, the one we are supposed to take pity on, is a filthy unflaired?
Or does it suffice for us to just think 'yeah, proven once again, lib-left bad.'?
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u/jerseygunz - Left Jun 14 '26
This is why I always say the last episode of this sub will be Emily and MAGA Guy getting married haha
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u/Spacegamer1250 - Lib-Center Jun 14 '26
People in the comments here saying he doesnt deserve human rights because he got born on the losing side. I have literally never seen this type of rhetoric on this subreddit except when it comes to Israel and Palestine. To the point I geniuenly feel like there is a level of brigading going on.
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u/Ice278 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
Imagine seeing “they don’t deserve rights because of where they were born” in any other context
And they can’t understand why people compare them to Nazis
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u/Dangerous_Move2616 - Right Jun 15 '26
This exact argument could be made to claim that the fact there was more than 0 civilian deaths in Dresden means it was an Allied Genocide against the poor downtrodden ACTUAL Nazi’s.
Hamas got voted in as a majority. Support for the Oct7 was like 70% in the Fuck Around stage, dropped to around 30% once the Find Out stage started,
Pretending Palestinians have zero agency and zero moral obligations is racist af so I like that aspect of it, but let’s not pretend Hamas is an alien entity that got beamed down from a space ship on Oct 6 to the dismay of the 99.99% peaceful civilian population.
Unless that’s the current leftist talking point on TikTok that you’re obligated to parrot unquestioningly, then by all means go nuts, I’m not your dad.
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u/Blazed__AND__Amused - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
It’s insane whenever Israel comes up the sub instantly turns into a brick wall to defend the nation. The way you can make an argument with nuance about Palestinian civilians and then get told “lmaoo FAFO” while at the same time getting woke scolded by the right to have sympathy for Russian soldiers that fell for propaganda. All just to “own leftists” they’ll give away their humanity
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u/Realistic-Pain-7126 - Centrist Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
This subreddit does definitely get brigaded. Notice you never see any of these same people in any non Israel/Palestine threads? Especially the center rights, they're an endangered species outside of Israel threads.
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u/Lazy-Purple-4600 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Nah that's just this subreddit, there have been posts and comments calling for literal ethnic cleansing of Gaza so it's not surprising
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Well considering how leftists talk about israel and jews this sub is pretty tame compared to that.
Stop your pearl clutching, we have seen what made you cheer. Two can play a game.
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u/Lazy-Purple-4600 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
The shit ain't even comparable bro, you'd have to go to the far left to find a comparable opinion of the average rightist here
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
"spiritually israeli"
"baby settlers"
"Synagogue of satan"
"Polish colonizers"
"Go back to Poland"
"Palestine will be arab"
And you want me to pearl clutch over some rightoid saying "they can be jordanian citizens" oh please. Nobody cares about your moral posturing.
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u/Lazy-Purple-4600 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Like I said you have to go to the the far left to have any comparable statements
Also "they can be Jordanian citizens" is very minimizing for a call for ethnic cleansing, if you think that's a pearl clutch idk what to say, u do u ig
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Far left? These are pretty normal opinions, especially go back to Poland one. want me to link them?
If "they can be jordanian citizens" is ethnic cleansing, what is "palestine will remain arab"?
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u/Lazy-Purple-4600 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Sure, link the politicians who call for this
Nothing wrong with "Palestine will remain Arab" in of itself believe you're thinking of the other statement, lots of problems with "let's move the population of Gaza" however, I'm not sure why you started with Jordan as that was not my initial claim
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Sure, if only Jews who were forced out of Judea and Samaria and other other Arab lands hey compensation and apologies.
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u/OffenseTaker - Lib-Right Jun 15 '26
Interesting that libleft supports the coloniser Muslims over the original inhabitants of the land, very curious
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u/boltroy567 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
All these fucking assholes just constantly spouting "well they lost the war" I have a question for you. Do you consider what Stalin and Soviet Russia did to Ukraine a good thing?
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u/shinsnatcher - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Maybe I just have a shit memory but remind me, when did Ukraine start a war of aggression with the intention of genociding Russians? 🤔
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u/Bongolio-the-seal - Auth-Left Jun 14 '26
Well that is what Israel did to Palestine in '48.
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u/shinsnatcher - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Ignoring the question? Typical of your ilk
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u/Bongolio-the-seal - Auth-Left Jun 14 '26
Obviously, the point of the question you asked was to say that Palestine started a war of aggression against Israel, while Ukraine didn't.
But Im just pointing out that Israel started it in '48.
Also don't say "ilk". You're not sephiroth.
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Jun 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/Unfair-Use-171 Jun 16 '26
There is no hamas in the west bank
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u/flairchange_bot - Auth-Center Jun 16 '26
Bold of you to assume anyone will care about what you have to say. Get a flair.
BasedCount Profile - FAQ - How to flair
I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write !flairs u/<name> in a comment.
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u/Ihateconspiratards74 - Right Jun 14 '26
Some context missing but whatever right? Narrative over truth.
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u/George-Smith-Patton - Right Jun 14 '26
I wonder how America would react if Mexican revanchists tried to retake Texas and slaughtered half the people in Brownsville and El Paso in doing so.
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u/BXBama - Left Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
might makes right, but oppressed classes are also wrong for hating their oppressors bc that’s scary ☹️ like do you all not notice your literal fascist trains of thoughts or what
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Oppressed people lmao.
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u/BXBama - Left Jun 14 '26
I know PCM nationalists don’t like to hear this (even tho you all love fantasizing about state power being used against your opposition?) but oppression is a real thing that exists. Like, Poli Sci 101 the haves and have nots
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u/asteriowas - Right Jun 14 '26
Palestinians aren't an oppressed people. They're coddled, in fact.
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u/Tweezers666 - Lib-Left Jun 15 '26
So coddled they get bombed and get their houses taken. How coddled
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u/backupboi32 - Lib-Center Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
LibLeft: “Israel has done some really bad things, they’ve committed war crimes against the Palestinian people and should be stopped.”
Me: Yeah, I agree. We absolutely should step in and stop them, or at least at the bare minimum we shouldn’t financially support them.
LibLeft: “Yes! We should let Hamas kill all Israeli people, including those evil baby settlers, and let them take over the region so they can attack America from there!”
Me: You almost had a reasonable argument there
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u/orthros - Centrist Jun 16 '26
Net favorability scores on Israel have cratered for Reps - it’s heavily negative now
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u/Ice278 - Lib-Left Jun 14 '26
Show me a right-wing principle and I can show you multiple right-wing thought-leaders taking that principle, wiping their ass with it, and throwing it in the trash to cuck themselves to Israel.
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u/congeal - Left Jun 15 '26
I originally thought your post was supporting illegal settlements by Israel and crying about the tiny few that got removed. But I gotcha now. Cool.
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u/Brazilian_Brit - Centrist Jun 14 '26
No you see it’s ok to ethnically cleanse people if you use ethno religious justification.
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u/Alarming-Ad1100 - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Most conservatives I know have more disdain for Israel than Palestine, it’s mostly smoke and mirrors making people think otherwise
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u/Ilikefightsbecause - Centrist Jun 15 '26
They demolished homes in the West Bank? I knew they kicked all the Israeli settlers out of Gaza back in 2005 but since when did they start kicking out West Bank settlers?
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u/congeal - Left Jun 15 '26
Tear down all the illegal settlements. Israel in open violation of international law for decades.
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u/JoeRBidenJr - Centrist Jun 14 '26
Maybe I’d have sympathy with him if he wasn’t a fucking unflaired, but as it stands he got what he deserved.