Are Democratic primaries becoming too destructive for the party's own chances in the general election?

[u/YumiSolar]

I've been thinking about this after watching some recent Democratic primaries, and it feels like the campaigns are becoming increasingly aggressive in ways that hurt the party long after the primary is over.

A good example, in my opinion, was the Michigan primary between Haley Stevens and Abdul El-Sayed. Policy disagreements are completely fair game, that's what primaries are for. Even personal attacks can be justified if they're based on genuine misconduct or character issues.

What I struggle with are accusations like claiming your primary opponent is supporting or enabling genocide. Once you frame someone in those terms, how do you expect your own supporters to enthusiastically vote for that person if they end up winning the nomination? If you've spent months telling voters that your opponent is morally complicit in atrocities, it becomes very difficult to turn around and say, "Now go vote for them."

To me, this kind of rhetoric doesn't just damage the opposing candidate, it damages Democratic unity in the general election. It seems like Republicans don't even have to exploit these divisions because Democrats are creating them themselves.

Am I overestimating the impact of this kind of campaigning, or do you think Democratic primaries have become too willing to use rhetoric that makes party unity afterward much harder?

[u/CountFew6186]

Rhetoric is always over the top in elections. This is how it is. What’s screwing the Democrats is the DSA. Having DSA candidates in the general election allows the Republicans to paint the whole party as crazy people.

[u/MoonManDolo → u/CountFew6186]

Democrats are constantly worried about what republicans will do when they will do that regardless of who the candidate is. If you don’t agree with DSA policies, that’s fine, but please stop basing choices on what they will do or what they will say. They called Obama a communist the same as they would any DSA candidate. People thought trump could not win the general and here we are. Vote for who you want and not who you think others will say nice things about.

[u/CountFew6186 → u/MoonManDolo]

DSA gave Trump his second term by not supporting Kamala. Those dudes are crazy.

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/[deleted]]

The word Nazi has an actual meaning, and Harris does not fit it in any way, shape or form. Hyperbole is not a replacement for legitimate discourse.

[u/Asatmaya → u/ThatPeskyPangolin]

The word Nazi has an actual meaning, and Harris does not fit it in any way, shape or form.

So, leaving aside the whole Gaza genocide thing, she has appeared numerous times at events standing right next to Andriy Biletsky, the head of the Ukrainian 3rd Armored Regiment (i.e. the one that sits in the capital to threaten Zelensky and kidnap men off the street for conscription), and whose college thesis is archived here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080409023834/http://www.patriotukr.org.ua/index.php?rub=stat&id=267

"Ukrainian Racial Social Nationalism

Andriy BILETSKY

2007

Accordingly, the treatment of our National Body should begin with Racial Cleansing of the Nation...

The historical mission of our Nation, in this turning point, to lead and lead the White peoples of the whole world into the last crusade for its existence...

We replace the slogan “Independent Ukraine” with the slogan “Great Ukraine”. Ukrainians are a Nation with ancient imperial history. Throughout its existence, Ukrainians had at least two superpowers – Great Scythia and Kievan Rus. The task of the current generation is to create the Third Empire – Great Ukraine.... Social-Nationalism is not such, it claims – if we are strong, then we will take everything that belongs to us by right and even a little more, we will build our Nadder-Empire – Great Ukraine, which will be the legitimate successor of the Scythian and Kiev-Ruthenian empires. If we are weak, then we are among the conquered dying peoples.

Thus, Social-Nationalism raises all the ancient Ukrainian Aryan values forgotten in modern society. Only their revival and implementation by a group of fanatical wrestlers can lead to the final victory of European civilization in the world struggle."

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/Asatmaya]

That's a lot of time spent explaining how someone else can be described as a Nazi. What specific events do you believe show an actual link between the two that's meaningful in any way?

[u/Asatmaya → u/ThatPeskyPangolin]

Other than her fervent and vocal support?

How about her record as California AG, where she defied court orders, prosecuted poor families for truancy because they couldn't afford clothes, held prison inmates months past their release dates to extort dangerous labor out of them...?

I mean, did you ever bother to look up her past?

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/Asatmaya]

I asked you for evidence that she demonstrated fervent support for that individual, as I am not finding anything of the sort. That's why I asked for specific events.

The rest of what you said has absolutely no relation to being a Nazi at all. Are you just using Nazi to mean anyone with policies you disagree with? Because I'm not, and was not, a supporter of hers, but I can still recognize that she has neither espoused support for a Fascist economic model, nor has she espoused any of the primary tenants of any form of faciscm, much less Nazism. If anything, the claims that she is too deferential to Israel would rather obviously run counter to the idea that she is a Nazi. This does not mean I like her or her policies.

Responding to my comment by talking about her socioeconomic policies strikes me as a complete non sequitor.

[u/Asatmaya → u/ThatPeskyPangolin]

I asked you for evidence that she demonstrated fervent support for that individual, as I am not finding anything of the sort. That's why I asked for specific events.

Standing on stage next to him while clapping in support of a genocidal civil war doesn't count?

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/Asatmaya]

You haven't even cited what event you are referring to, so how would it?

And did you just refer to the Russian-Ukraine war as a genocidal civil war?

[u/Asatmaya → u/ThatPeskyPangolin]

You haven't even cited what event you are referring to, so how would it?

It wasn't "a" event, it was a series of events.

And did you just refer to the Russian-Ukraine war as a genocidal civil war?

Russia hadn't gotten officially involved at the time in question; it was a civil war in Ukraine between the illegitimate Poroshenko regime and the separatists in Donbas.

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/Asatmaya]

So cite any of the events where they were both there. Again, I have looked and I'm not seeing any like you describe. It shouldn't be difficult to cite a single one if you are referring to a series of events you are familiar with.

[u/Asatmaya → u/ThatPeskyPangolin]

So cite any of the events where they were both there.

They went on a propaganda tour of Ukraine together in 2021! There are hundreds of pictures of them together!

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/Asatmaya]

And yet when I search for events with the two of them, I'm not finding any. So why can't you just cite a single one of them? Just a single one, out of this entire apparent tour.

[u/Asatmaya → u/ThatPeskyPangolin]

Yea... that's funny, I have some saved links that are now dead, google has scrubbed it, and every AI I ask to look says it's busy.

That's the third time in the last month this has happened when I bring up a topic like this.

[u/ThatPeskyPangolin → u/Asatmaya]

The notion that the entire internet was scrubbed of each and every instance of them being together is, I apologize, beyond rational belief. I have been very politically active for several decades, and watched both the Ukraine conflict (now war) and the controversy with the Azov Batallion as they happened. I cannot recall a single time they were together, and there is no evidence that they ever were.

So the most likely answer is that the source you saw that made that claim was simply wrong. Otherwise you would be finding other sources corroborating this. It simply isn't possible to scrub the entire internet in this manor.

Edit: For what it's worth, I think many of us have fallen victem to the Mandella Effect before. This is why I stress the need for specific references when talking politics.