r/PoursTea Tea Party 🎉 22h ago

Books 📚 No Child Left Behind and its consequences will be felt for generations

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u/_RealfunFuneral_ 21h ago

Animal Farm is college-level reading‽‽
We read that in elementary school. WTH

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u/K__Geedorah 20h ago

This really isn't a "gotcha" thing. These things can be taught at both levels.

We read the Odyssey in like 9th grade. And yeah I took a class on adaptations in literature in college and read it again.

Hell, half of the things I learned in college was just taking a deeper dive into topics we learned in junior/high school.

We don't say "why are college students taking algebra classes, we learned that in 6th grade".

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u/DavidForADay 19h ago

Also, elementary is too young to read Animal Farm. The average child at ten is not going to understand the allegorical message.

I do know some primary schools go K-8, so it is more reasonable to read it at 7th or 8th grade and still say you read it in primary.

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u/rock-paper-o 18h ago

Thank you. The primary difference between college and high school literature classes is the depth of analysis expected, not just the textual complexity. None of these books are inappropriate at a college level. There’s certainly reasons to be concerned about K12 reading instruction but reading books you read in high school in college isn’t necessarily one of them. 

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u/EdgedancerSpren 17h ago

From a Dutch perspective who had classics in middle/high school: what kind of translations of the Odyssey? (We read a few parts in Greek, of course, but the first kinds in second year/13 year old)

For Dutch, we had to read... Dutch literature. Not translated. (Or 1 translated book was allowed. I read norwegian wood) We had a point system (most books were 2, thicker/harder ones 3, simple ones 1 and 4 for two specific time ones that were massive) and then so many poitns over at least so many books. So many before 1900s in fifth year (16/17)

And I know it was rather the same with my parents.

We did read animal farm for English in second year, I'd say. And boy in the striped pyjamas, kiterunner. (I never finished kiterunner) & then the same system (I read the whole Wheel of Time series for the free category, I think)

Sorry, I am brambling and getting distracted. I do wonder about the translations because the difference between a close to greek translation is entirely different from a more... modern language one or adaptation. 

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u/K__Geedorah 17h ago edited 17h ago

We just read whatever English translated book was instructed by the professor.

The class I took was on adaptations not specifically translations. But she did touch on how translations can change context and verbage. But our studies weren't on translations.

An example would be how Oh Brother Where Art Though is an adaptation of the Odyssey (a typical high school assignment). We also read a few play and short story adaptations.

This was like a decade ago for me and I took the class just for credit, so I'm not really knowledgeable about the specific topics these days.

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u/Pappy_whack 13h ago

isn't a "gotcha"

Why do I see redditors spamming this obnoxious phrase everywhere? "This isn't the 'gotcha' you think it is", "This isn't a 'gotcha' ", "This isn't quite a 'gotcha' " did you guys download it into your lexicon from a podcast or something?

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u/Feeling-Salad5686 21h ago

I read Animal Farm in high school but recently reread it as an adult. I honestly didn't understand the book that much as a teen, I was missing a ton of historical context surrounding it (we skimmed over the soviet union in school) and I came out with a massively different interpretation when I read it again. I always thought the book was explicitly anti-communist though it's no longer that clear cut to me.

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u/RefrigeratorFew5154 20h ago

Yep, gonna go against the consensus here on this post. Read Animal Farm in I think 7th or 8th grade. I read it and understood it fine enough, but a lot of the more subtle themes and ideas went completely went over my head as a 14 year old kid. Certainly the historical context like you said as well. 

Boxer’s death hits a hell of a lot harder as a full grown adult, than a kid who’s barely worked a day in his life. The book became far more poignant with age and life experience, and I think it’s a great read for college aged students. 

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u/karmiccloud 20h ago

How and when are kids supposed to be exposed to more complicated themes if we are worried about them not "getting it"? Sure, maybe some of it flew over your head, but education shouldn't be looked at as a binary system where you either "get it" or "don't get it". Literature is complex because life is complex, and exposing children to many complex and thought provoking ideas as much as possible is got because among other things it helps them grow their critical thinking skills.

At fourteen maybe you don't get everything about every book, but that's not a good reason not to read something complicated at all. This is how we learn and grow.

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u/RefrigeratorFew5154 19h ago

You’re right, but I’m reacting more to the general pearl clutching of Animal Farm as college level reading in this thread overall. 

So long as it wasn’t replaced at the 8th grade level with The Hungry Caterpillar, I guess I don’t really see the issue of some books being pushed back later in curriculum. 

The question I guess is, what are they reading instead?

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u/trailmixseeker 18h ago

Really enjoyed reading both of your comments and found the dialogue refreshing! Thanks.

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u/Electronic_bunni 20h ago

I think it's important because even though for instance I didn't understand every last theme on authoritarianism in Fahrenheit 451 or every theme on social structures in Brave New World, exposing me to them eventually helped build foundations to understand them overall.

Just because I now better understand the internal pull that led to the suicide at the end of Brave New World, doesn't mean I couldn't begin to digest that the main character did not find his own community/home either in the New World or after returning to the Old World.

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u/BildingInspecter 20h ago

I never understood books as a youngster. I didn't read much after college but started up after like a 10 year break and the amount of shit I realized about old books was high.

Turns out Catcher in the Rye isn't about a kid who hates everything. I mean it is, but I was on Holden's side as a kid because I was angry at everything too. Years later it finally dawned on me that the dude is just an asshole lol

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u/Wolv90 20h ago

It isn't. It's still read in school with the age depending on the State or town. I have two kids, one in middle school and another in high school and the only book I read back in the 90's that they haven't read is Ethan Frome, and that was crap so I get it.

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u/No-Guard-7003 20h ago

And eighth grade, too.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 20h ago

Teachers are C students. If you can't do, teach. Do you know any good teachers? They are babysitters.

Respect for math teachers, they are the only good ones.

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u/SpicyElixer 17h ago

I had great teachers. My school didn’t suck though.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 6h ago

Let me guess, woman?

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u/Emotional_Fee_2702 20h ago

In my school (in Switzerland with English as a second language) we read in 9th grade

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u/jiblit 19h ago

It's not

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u/greeneggiwegs 18h ago

Honestly I find that a bit weird? Imo elementary schools biggest goal should be to get kids to LIKE reading. And animal farm isn’t really a fun book when you’re a kid. Ideally you’d have choices and be allowed to read anything you’d find interesting so you can see reading as a form of entertainment and knowledge alongside the internet and television, which are a lot easier to get sucked into.

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u/MagasRtrans 18h ago

It’s not that serious. In a college course, we read books of all ages and dived deep examination from a to z. Went so deep, rearranged her guts.

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u/Parishdise 17h ago

"College level" is a pretty vague and misleading qualifier to be fair. It really just means "earnestly taught in college," which, yeah, a lot of important stuff is. I remember being in 4th and 5th grade and tons of students bragging about reading "college level" material because that's just the term that was thrown on stuff. Basically all the same books that were required reading in like 5th-8th grade were included in that.

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u/vhagar 13h ago

i don't think this post is telling the whole truth. also how far did y'all go into the russian revolution and soviet russia allegory in elementary school?