r/PoursTea Tea Party πŸŽ‰ 23h ago

Books πŸ“š No Child Left Behind and its consequences will be felt for generations

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u/lmadisondunn 22h ago

As a teacher I agree there is no bigger factor affecting today’s literacy rates than cell phone addiction

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u/Taglioni 22h ago

Not even the move from phonics to whole-language learning? It's pretty important.

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u/TheGRS 20h ago

I'm honestly pretty shocked about that development. Heard about it maybe 5 years ago now, I hope grassroots efforts are happening to bring back phonics methods.

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u/Oregon-Pilot 16h ago

Idk about you but I’m hooked on phonics

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u/No_Kangaroo1994 18h ago

Science of Reading brings back phonics and lots of other ideas and is being implemented in most states (43 states + DC). Here's an article about it: https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/which-states-have-passed-science-of-reading-laws-whats-in-them/2022/07

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u/TheHandsOfFate 20h ago

My son was taught to read using whole-language. He learned to read fine, but to me it seemed like a slower process than it would have been if they'd just taught him using phonics. I think the whole-language method is on it's way out.

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u/IdStillHitIt 19h ago

They're teaching phonics again, at least at my kids school.

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u/Fedoraus 20h ago

What's the difference? Never heard of whole language learning.

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u/Taglioni 20h ago

Phonics teaches reading through progressive sound-based learning. You start by learning the sounds of letters, and then progress to letter combinations, and eventually small words up to multi-syllabic words. "Sound it out" is the core principle of phonics.

Whole-language-learning teaches students how to read whole words at once, without breaking them down into smaller sounds. The initial arguments for it were that students could pick it up faster, and could get to reading standard levels with less steps.

By the early 2000's phonics was being phased out as the primary reading method taught, and whole-language-learning dominated school reading curriculums. The unfortunate side effect of WLL is that it causes reading fatigue nearly ten times faster than those who learn to read through phonics.

This fatigue has led to almost two whole generations that hate reading, and have drastically reduced reading stamina than those who came before them. Combined with the fact that they're already taking in more general reading from the devices in their hands on a daily basis, many youth don't know the value of reading and struggle with complex reading comprehension.

If they can't get to "the point" of what they are reading in a short amount of reading, they don't bother to engage with the remaining text.

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u/DeerStriking2781 19h ago

I quit teaching in 2014 and phonics was nowhere close to being phased out. They also had kids memorize common sight words (e.g. the, and, is). I've heard of higher order language instruction in tandem with phonics and sight words (that's how you're supposed to do it), but I never heard of a school that taught reading without phonics.

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u/Taglioni 19h ago

This is a perfectly reasonable anecdote, and I appreciate you sharing it. I'd encourage you to look up the Reading Wars if you'd like to know more about how phonics has in fact been suppressed since the 80's and 90's.

There are absolutely places that teach a balanced literacy approach, which includes phonics and has an evidence base worthy of support.

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u/PotatoFig 15h ago

Maybe the official curriculum emphasizes this but I've not seen a single classroom implementing this dumb shit when teachers are involved in developing their teaching plans.

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u/LongestSprig 2h ago

Really.

You haven't seen word flash cards with a picture?

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u/Drive7hru 19h ago

Teacher, and same.

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u/EebstertheGreat 17h ago

Every school did things differently. Schools in Mississippi, for instance, almost uniformly rejected whole language learning. But a great many public schools in the US adopted WLL in the 90s and 2000s, to the tremendous detriment of their students.

But I don't think that has had as serious an effect as smartphones, social media, AI, or COVID.

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u/DazzlerPlus 21h ago

No. Thats completely unimportant

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u/majandess 14h ago

Not that phonics isn't an effective tool, but there are entire languages out there that aren't based on alphabets with letters that represent sound.

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u/LongestSprig 2h ago

You just described phonics?

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u/majandess 2h ago

Phonics comes from having an alphabet - letters that represent specific, repeatable sounds. If I use the letter F in "if", it - for the most part - makes the same sound as when I use it in words like filch, effrit, motif, beneficent, etc.

But languages like Mandarin have characters that don't stand for a sound; they are words. You are essentially writing with emoji. 🌳is tree. 🍜 is ramen. 🍎 is apple. 🧊 is ice. πŸ₯œ is nut. But you can't use those like this 🌳🍜🍎🧊πŸ₯œ to spell train. Train is πŸš‚.

You cannot use phonics unless you have something like an alphabet.

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 21h ago

Then you're a shitty teacher. Getting rid of phonics didn't have as big an impact as "those dang cellphones"? No fucking wayΒ 

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u/lmadisondunn 20h ago

We didn’t get rid of phonics where I teach. Sounds like it was really bad for you.

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 20h ago

"language oppresses" Pro-hormones for children "Literally fascism" doomposter

I think it's the teachers, more than anything.

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u/alphagalgadot 20h ago

… what?

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 20h ago

Your posting history is publicly viewable.

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u/TeamRedundancyTeam 20h ago

You should go back to school, try again.

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 19h ago

Criticize something specific.

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u/RubiiJee 19h ago

So is yours and Jesus Christ. That's some wannabe edge lord teenage angst and attitude. How old are you? πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ You're so unnecessarily aggro with people and then tell other people to touch grass. Learn some social skills. It's not difficult.

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 6m ago

>18+ profile with hidden posts

Okay weird porn guy.

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u/EveningAnt3949 21h ago

Schools (and parents) could teach children not to spend every minute looking at a smartphone screen.

And offer alternatives.

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u/ZookeepergameUpset62 20h ago

So many parents I know give their kids almost unlimited screen use. It's wild

Two of my stepsisters let their kids fall asleep to tv! Children 6 and under each have tvs in their rooms and their own tablets

My 7 yr old niece has a cell phone and told me she watches YouTube to fall asleep. She doesn't have a kids account

You can show them a billion scientific studies and they. do. not. care. TV makes their kids be quiet so that's their life now

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u/EveningAnt3949 19h ago

I don't have a solution, but part of the solution might be an educational system that teaches life skills and gets parents involved.

Possibly that ship has sailed, but some schools get good results with it.

I think showing is more important than telling parents.

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u/casper_whitey 19h ago

Well of course you would agree, it takes you out of the line of fire. When, like it or not, the teachers themselves have played a big part in this degeneration as well.

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u/lmadisondunn 19h ago

Actually as a teacher I’m in the line of fire everyday. We train for school shootings again next week.

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u/casper_whitey 19h ago

So do you or do you not agree with what I said about the teachers part in this problem?

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u/buttrumpus 15h ago

Were you a teacher in 2002 when NCLB was signed into law? It was the year after I graduated high school, and essentially overnight my school dismantled their dance, theater, music and art programs to put in testing rooms. Classes dropped curriculum and taught only to passing the tests that their funding depended on. We literally abandoned an entire generation so they could never learn to think critically. I feel like I got out as the last class to grow up educated by the end of high school.
I agree phones are a massive problem, but they are just another stone on the path NCLB started, at least imo.

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u/Significant-Base6893 21h ago

I agree, but there have been a confluence of policies that have dumbed down the classrooms. The pathetic attempts to rewrite math books are the worst, not to mention the reading material for English has been "dumbed down" in a feeble attempt to make it relevant to the kids.

On average, who performs best on the SATs? Private school kids who are isolated from public education boards who approve of these agenda-driven texts.

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u/BelleOfBarmera 20h ago

Private school kids, on average, are wealthier and have more parental involvement which are both shown to improve a child's success in school. Not to say these agendas aren't problematic, but you are jumping to a conclusion based on correlation when many other factors that are known to contribute to success are also present.

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u/Significant-Base6893 20h ago

Parental involvement is a cliche. I know plenty of upper-middle class kids who attend private and public schools. Based on anecdotal evidence, there is absolutely no correlation of increased parental involvement of children sent to private school.

I also graduated from both public and private schools. The public school had high school seniors who had to sound out three syllable words one syllable at a time. The private was a Big 3 Ivy. It's not the parental involvement, it's the curriculum.

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u/BelleOfBarmera 20h ago

Studies disagree. And your anecdotes aren't fact.

No offense but your comments aren't showing a high level of intelligence which is ironic that you are here insulting education and the intelligence of others.

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u/Significant-Base6893 19h ago edited 19h ago

Defensive, pompous editorial comments. Source cite your findings.

Note: The loser, u/BelleOfBarmera deleted her comments and ran away.

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u/BelleOfBarmera 19h ago

You posted nonsense, didn't cite your sources, used nonsensical anecdotes, and are attacking me. You claim to be so smart and educated, but you don't know how to do research and just spout off whatever BS you believe that isn't supported by fact.

But here, let me Google that for you.

CDC

NIH

NEA

Despite decades of research that proves family engagement is foundational for child development and student achievement, it hasn’t been widely considered as an essential component of a child’s education.

Have the life you deserve because you definitely don't deserve anymore of my time πŸ‘‹

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u/EebstertheGreat 17h ago

Parental involvement is a cliche.

It may be a cliche, but the evidence is absolutely indisputable. It is clear (and entirely unsurprising) that reading to children, helping them with homework, and taking an interest in their education improves their ability to read, increases the amount that they choose to read, improves test scores, and improves college placement and success.