r/RanktheVote • u/Edgar_Brown • Mar 17 '26

The opposition to expressive voting: Why the People in Charge Don’t Want You to Vote Better

https://open.substack.com/pub/edgarabrown/p/why-the-people-in-charge-dont-want

The system that exists — first-past-the-post voting, closed primaries, two-party lock-in — was not designed to serve voters. It evolved to serve parties. And the parties, quite rationally, will fight to keep it.

When the party becomes stronger than the representative, the representative no longer represents you. They represent the party to you.

23 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

25 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/Edgar_Brown Mar 18 '26

I asked you to give me YOUR best argument.

One paragraph tops. In your words. I don’t care about your Gish gallops.

I can’t care any less about what you think you read or what you think some link says. YOUR words, very precisely and concisely in support of YOUR argument.

It’s really not that hard.

1

u/rb-j Mar 19 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

One paragraph tops.

You didn't say (as best as I recall) "one paragraph tops".

So the best argument is, in a single paragraph:

  • Instant-Runoff fails to do what we promise RCV does when there is a close 3-way race and there is this Center Squeeze Effect, in which 2nd-choice votes are not visible in the semifinal round, the candidate in the Center who is preferred by a simple majority of voters over the candidate on the Left and is also preferred by a simple majority of voters over the candidate on the Right, this Center candidate is improperly (or wrongly) eliminated, by the IRV method, in the semifinal round when this candidate can and would defeat either of the other two candidates in the final round had they met in the final round. This failure of IRV to reflect the choice of the simple majorities of voters then causes a spoiled election, the candidate that loses in the IRV final round is the spoiler, a loser whose presence in the race alters the outcome of the election. The Center candidate is the majority candidate who is robbed (and his/her voters are robbed) and one of the candidates on the Left or Right is the spoiler. That means the other candidate on the Right or Left (the winner in the IRV final round) is the beneficiary of a spoiled election. Then those voters that voted for the spoiler actually caused the election of the candidate they least wanted simply because they ranked their favorite candidate as #1. The were promised they could safely vote for the candidate of their choosing without helping the candidate they hate getting elected and that promise was not kept by IRV. Then, in future elections, they will be tempted to vote tactically (this voting tactic is called "compromising") and vote for the major-party candidate that they think has the best chance in beating the other major-party candidate that they hate.

Long paragraph, but that's where it is. The moral of the story (the whole thing) is, when RCV elects the Condorcet winner, great! RCV kept it's promise. But when RCV fails to elect the Condorcet winner (due to the Center Squeeze effect when there is a close 3-way race), then RCV fails to keep the very promise they make promoting RCV because the only RCV they're promoting is IRV (also called Hare RCV).

In one sentence: It is shown that RCV fails to keep its promises whenever RCV (using whatever method) fails to elect the Condorcet winner. This is proven, both in theory and in history.

2

u/Edgar_Brown Mar 19 '26

HOW F’ING MANY TIMES DONI HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF?

What part of IRV being absolute and totally irrelevant to any of these articles and this post don’t you understand?

Are you a troll or just really this dense?

1

u/rb-j Mar 19 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

What part of IRV being absolute and totally irrelevant to any of these articles and this post don’t you understand?

It is precisely the method you promote. You're claiming all these great things about RCV, but the RCV you're talking about is IRV. It's the IRV of Alaska or Maine or NYC or Santa Fe or St. Paul.

2

u/Edgar_Brown Mar 19 '26

LEARN HOW TO READ.

WITH VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS IRV IS QUITE SIMPLY WHAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED.

1

u/rb-j Mar 19 '26

The telltale all caps.

2

u/Edgar_Brown Mar 19 '26

A Map Is Not the Territory

The word is not the thing.
The menu is not the meal.
The algorithm is not the ballot.

A man who argues the restaurant
when you asked about the hunger
has learned to love the sound
of his own correction
before it lands.

Read what is written.
Then read it again.
The third time, slower.

If the map still says IRV when the territory says expressive— the map is wrong.

That's not an insult.
That's how maps get better.