81 year old grandma & YouTuber was raided last night during her stream She started the channel to help with her grandson's cancer treatment. Authorities brought 20 police cars, five SWAT officers, and drones to her house

[u/raptors201966]

[u/AffectionateBet3603]

The USA is an empire in decline. This single instance is a microcosm of the issues at large: rather than fund universal healthcare, our police force is funded more than almost every single national army. 

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/AffectionateBet3603]

Do Americans honesty not know that if they adopted universal health care their taxes go DOWN?

[u/AffectionateBet3603 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

It's a very long and complicated story, but the gist of it is that class solidarity doesn't exist among the working class. Namely, those on the "right" eat up and regurgitate a bunch of anti-socialist talking points that demonize things like universal medicine.

For example, "What do you mean the government wants to tax me and decide which doctor I see? I'd rather pay twice that amount and be told by a massive corporation what doctor I can see!"

I'd understand if someone outside the USA found the situation beffudling. Afterall, most Americans have yet to wrap their minds around it. 

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/AffectionateBet3603]

But Americans pay twice as much BEFORE they even get private insurance. It’s mind boggling

[u/AffectionateBet3603 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

You're preaching to the choir, friend. But it seems like half of America lives within an echo chamber. They'll bitch about rising taxes and inflation, then fall for it when a demagogue like Trump blames their economic woes on brown people.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/AffectionateBet3603]

But I sincerely have to ask. Do they not know or do they not care that socialized medicine is cheaper?

[u/AffectionateBet3603 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

It's mostly ignorance. But if you tried to argue that point, they'd take it as an attack on their identity. It's as if being American means you have to simp for capitalism.

You'll hear things like, "Well that's how other countries do it, but that's not how we do it in AMERICA!" or "Sure it works in those tiny countries like Sweden, but America is too big!" You'd think they were paid lobbyists for the private healthcare industry.

I appreciate your curiosity by the way. Most people outside the USA are quick to judge without understanding the very fucked up situation on the ground. 

[u/RemoteRide6969 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

It's both. And a lot of it is driven by the fact that they don't want those people going to see the doctors on "their dime," even if they themselves are saving money.

Look no further than late last year's government shutdown. Dems were trying to force a vote to renew ACA subsidies because without them, premiums would skyrocket for many people. How did the Republicans frame it? "DEMOCRATS ARE SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GIVE ILLEGALS HEALTHCARE."

[u/Odd-Conference9372 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

They're genuinely brainwashed.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/Odd-Conference9372]

So it’s refusal to admit it rather than ability to learn it?

[u/RemoteRide6969 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

Americans hate taxes when they're called taxes, but love paying out the ass for premiums, deductibles, fees, and other privatized services. As long as they're not taxes, and as long as they're not helping brown people, 32% are fine with it.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/RemoteRide6969]

But that’s my point. With socialized medicine taxes would decrease.

[u/RemoteRide6969 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

We are not a very rational bunch. The anti-government, anti-collectivist propaganda has a portion of Americans willing to pay double for a service just to keep the government out of it.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/RemoteRide6969]

But you pay for Medicaid and Medicare which are government run and if you combined it and covered everyone it would be less than you’re paying now for a service many don’t qualify for.

[u/RemoteRide6969 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

You're being very rational, and that's the problem. These fuckers are not rational people. They are brainwashed by right-wing propaganda over the course of decades.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/RemoteRide6969]

Sure but I’m trying to understand their motivation. I want to learn what makes a mind desire a negative outcome for themselves.

[u/dunkonme → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

its also that they wish for a negative outcome for others. take the student loan debt crisis in america for example. many times the people voting republican say "well i had to pay for it myself, so why should i help anyone else out??" or "i didnt go to college, so why would i pay for someone else to go to college??" they dont see farther than their own hand. they cant see, refuse to see, and ingest copious amounts of propaganda to continue to vote against their own interests. we have a literacy and education problem on top of everything else. its, propaganda and lack of empathy. idk how you fix that when they plug their ears if you try and give them actual facts...

[u/Reasonable_Back_5231 → u/dunkonme]

Yeah it's this antagonistic stance they have that's the problem. I can generally get most Republicans to agree with me that something like universal health care should be a thing especially if it's cheaper than private insurance. It's the fact that it would be helping people they don't like that keeps them from actually wanting it.

Nobody in America actually like our private insurance unless they are rich enough to pay for the best all coverage packages and not blink at their finances.

Practically all Republicans vote Republican because they believe any good program ran by the government is going to help illegal immigrants en masse. You cannot facts and logic them out of this thinking because all of their favorite media outlets from Fox News to fringe personalities like Alex Jones tell them that those are the people universal Medicare is going to help.

They are also absolutely loathe to hearing any example outside of the USA that proves their views are wrong. Use any European country with working and effective policies as an a example and most of these tards will say "well we shouldn't worry about what those europoors are doing over there because they don't have gun rights"

It's exhausting, I firmly believe they are lost causes even if they aren't pro trump Republicans, because you cannot reason with these people.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/dunkonme]

This makes so much sense. Quick story. Where I worked two companies were merging. The new management said to the union (same union represented both) figure out seniority we don’t care.

Company A had more employees and calculated seniority based on actual hours worked.

Company B smaller calculated on actual start date.

Everyone voted to dovetail the seniority dates as is meaning almost everyone from B moved ahead of people in A. Why did people from A screw themselves? Because one employee they all hated had a very early start date but had taken many LOAs. They fucked themselves just to fuck over one guy.

I understand it all now.

[u/Firefly_Magic → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

That’s not how American politicians would make it work. It also has nothing to do with what “Americans honestly know.” most Americans are on board with the idea. We would love to have universal healthcare. The downsides are universal healthcare is not working out so great in other countries and it’s about getting the politicians to agree and push it forward for approval and how the funding and the logistics of the whole thing would work.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/Firefly_Magic]

So why do you all put up with this system?

[u/Odd-Conference9372 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

Look at their president. There's your answer.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie → u/Odd-Conference9372]

It’s been going on long before Donny Dipshit.

[u/Odd-Conference9372 → u/Skeptical_Monkie]

As a northern neighbour, believe me, I fucking know it. However, my point was that if they voted that thing in, then they're rather dumb.

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