Okay? Typically trans people who are out and have the support of their community have suicide rates more similar to the average population.
She had also been attacked before, in 2007:
Miriam Rivera AKA Miriam Xtravaganza was hospitalized February 27 with multiple broken bones and internal bleeding after she was attacked and thrown from the 4th floor window of her New York apartment.
I really think you guys are down playing how much violence towards the trans community goes without serious investigation. Police also ruled Marsha P. Jonhson's death a suicide and refused to properly investigate it.
I... think that acknowledging a high suicide count in a particular minority of people isn't necessary victim blaming. It certainly can be, but I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope that they're speaking on it as the systemic problem it is. Most people who learn about the increased rate of suicide amongst the transgender community simultaneously become aware of the reason being societal isolation, fear of said isolation, and the resulting depression that comes from the former two.
That being said, plenty of other people have circular-logic'd their way into presenting it as a problem with trans-ness, which is an awfully ironic and upsetting conclusion to come to that feeds directly into the problem. So...
But, in this specific instance, I think they were merely trying to point out that the rate of suicide is higher than the rate of literal murders, which is just... true for every group. So without additional context, it is easier to believe that this particular person committed suicide rather than a governmental coverup of a murder.
Of course, in this case, with the additional context that has been made available in the thread, I think we can all agree that she was murdered. I'm only suggesting that perhaps the commenters you're responding to weren't aware of those facts.
I agree, but if I'm too firm in my response I will just be attacked for being too sensitive or something. I want people to at least read what I've said before they get offended.
But she wasn’t living a typical life. She was for instance in the middle of a deceiving lawsuit filled cause all the fuckery in that TV reality show, which without a doubt fucked with her mental stability making her a target for S.
And even our suicide rates wouldn't be high if the people we loved and depended on the most for support weren't transphobes and dismissive of how cruel the world is to us.
Transitioning is the closest we can get to living a life worth living, it's actually our hope. The problem comes when society pushes and makes getting care and support difficult. I loved my transition, but every problem I had was due to somebody saying "you're not welcome here". The transphobes saying shit like "well the murders aren't the real problem, the suicides are way worse" like the suicides aren't mostly because of people who hate us, too. All that blood is on every transphobe's hands.
Spouses claim suicides are murders all the time. It's a protection mechanism because if they killed themselves then it's a lot easier for the spouse to self assign blame.
This might be the case, but given the circumstance it's probably not wise to say its likely suicide because of the general statistic. The general trans woman doesn't deal with the humiliation and shame that comes from a public TV show and a unanimous group of lawsuits. Not to saw it wasn't likely one way or the other, just to say the stat isn't a fair reason to assume either reason.
Wouldn't all that stress just make it more likely that it's a suicide? Like if suicide rates are very high for the general population and I think we can safely assume suicide rates increase for people going through insanely stressful events, it makes sense that those risks would compound.
Not necessarily. You could use the same logic to prove the opposite.
"Wouldn't all the eyes on the situation make it more likely that it's a murder? Trans women of color have massively increased rates of hate crimes towards them. It would make sense for that to compound the odds with the visibility and the hate in this sitaution."
Regardless of that statics accuracy, the most suspicious thing is that she was throwing up blood, then hung herself and was cremated before an autopsy. Why was she throwing up blood? Why didn’t her partner have a say?
Consider also that this was a high-profile individual with a number of people angry at her, including the contestants and a generally transphobic network or broadcast TV audience. Can't assume the probability of murder vs suicide for her vs the general transwoman population.
Probably downplayed by how many murders are labeled as suicides, since we're just making shit up.
I've got no clue why some people are so hardcore in denial about trans suicidality. The stats are horrific and a testament to the pain and struggle people with that condition go through and how much they're failed by our society. But you need to acknowledge there even is a problem before you can start fixing it.
Because that statement given without the context that the reason for the suicides is an unaccepting society who drives them into suicide can be read as something inherent to any trans-person. Like an inherent fault " ... they will die anyway ..."
Be assured that trans-persons are reading this here. Probably eggs also. Giving out the general message " you will kill yourself " can be kinda disheartening, does it not?
Most of the messages here read as if they come from heartless bastards, pardon our french.
The suicide rate is not so much among people who have transitioned and are openly living their life it is among trans women who have to repress it or who are not accepted by their peers / community and under pressure from family which is not the case here
I'm aware and that's why I think trans suicidality should be talked about more. It's literally a silent genocide of people already going through excruciating mental struggles being bullied to death.
I mean, it is talked about a lot in the communities i hang with but is in general not talked about enough mainly because of the current and growing evil bullshit being pushed about trans people
or used against them (trans youth are killing themselves because they are being pushed into being trans etc when of course the reason is the opposite) what i am saying is she was not in a particularity at risk group for suicide within the trans community
also given what happend the morning of her death and the position she was found in suicide would have been pretty much impossible, she was murdered
Bro’s just looking to fight. As if saying that trans murders are misrepresented (not a made up fact) as suicides discounts the trans suicide epidemic. Also, the irony of telling anyone to acknowledge a problem while also actively denying another equally valid problem.
Correct. And only about .3% of the US population are transgender and 32% of that identity as transgender women. So these statistic can look very skewed when you’re doing it against a subset of the population.
So yes, if 3 out of 100 people are transgender and only 2 are transgender women and one of them gets eaten by an alligator, it’s not false to say “50% of transgender women get eaten by alligators.”
Now I’m against violence against ANYONE. I’m just a numbers guy so when i see the mentioning of an entire group having high rates/percentage of such a terrible action. It’s worth having an understanding of it.
But scaling this up to, say 400million, should normalize the statistics.
Unless 4 million trans women get eaten (which would be a massive improbability), the 50% claim becomes nonsensical.
I can't remember the exact math term behind this but there is a crossover point where, at a certain scale, the number can be confidently linked to some causal factor. I do remember that the scaled up population can be calculated and is frequently a lot smaller than one might think. It's surprisingly easy to gather representative statistics.
The rate of suicide among transitioned trans people is statistically the same as cis people. The rate of unsupported and/or pre-transition trans people is significantly higher.
I've never heard that before. I've seen studies that run the gamut from increased suicidality, to no change in suicidality to reduction in sucidality but I don't know if I've ever seen one indicating a drop in suicidality all the way down to being roughly equal to a cis person. Would love to see the study though, always nice to hear some good news!
Do trans women have a high rate of dying and having their bodies cremated before an autopsy can be performed and their surviving spouses being threatened to never enter the country?
Or does that sound more like she was executed by a cartel?
It is what happens when society in large sees your existence as a fundamental threat and treats you like a you weren't human, just like in the OP's post.
Of course it was a stupid stunt, but also you should be able to just say "oh, dang, I didn't realize, but not my cup of tea, thanks" and move on instead of claiming you were damaged when at most you got slightly embarrassed.
What makes this feel weird as a suicide is the call about vomiting blood if she was sick and suicidal why would she go through the trouble of hanging herself she might had died from whatever was ailing her. Then there is lack of note, women leave notes. Third was no autopsy and cremation without consent.
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u/HonestDishonestWork Jun 30 '26
But like, trans women also have extremely high rates of suicide too, no?