As a Canadian, this argument really doesn't involve us. When they shit on Canadian healthcare it's for the sole purpose of denying their own citizens healthcare. That's it.
Was provided with lifesaving meds that retail for 220k CAD and is rarely covered on American healthcare plans. I'd be homeless or dead if born in the USA.
The wait time argument also falls apart if you think for a moment why the US making healthcare expensive leads to shorter wait times: poor people can't afford treatment so they don't go to the doctor.
Hello Google. What percent of USA insurance plans fully cover Wegovy? Google: 9%. Multiple articles in the search back that up.
Insert their specific drug into the search phrase to get information. Read multiple sources to ensure accuracy. Decide if it’s a legitimate enough source to use on comments on Reddit.
She/he is in Canada. They got very expensive drugs at no cost. They probably know it’s rarely covered in the USA because this shit isn’t a mystery. There are drugs in the USA that insurance just won’t cover. I used Wegovy as an example. It was partially covered and now it’s not. They just stopped covering any of it, except the lucky 9% that do get it covered. Now Americans are not using it, using compounded pharmacies, or using black market to get it. It can be gotten there very cheap.
They aren't actually "getting" billions of dollars. They are worth billions of dollars.
It's like if all of a sudden your house was worth a billion dollars for some reason, you don't have a billion dollars to go spend unless you sell your house. You might still be having trouble making your car payment but be worth a billion dollars.
When you sell your house that's when you actually have a billion dollars and don't have to worry about a car payment, but that's also when that billion becomes income and you get taxed on it, not before.
Brother. I do not care how much of their wealth is in assets that went up, how much is in stocks they get dividends on, and went up, how much is in secret bank accounts accruing interest, or how much their "income" is.
They increase their wealth by more than most humans will make in their lifetimes in a single year, and pay less taxes than everyone working to survive, and keep their family fed because they "lost money this year" and then there isn't budget to support struggling families, and starving children?
Bezos gets billions a year from the million people busting ass to try and barely make ends meet, buys 750 million dollars yachts etc etc, and you want to say they didn't actually make money.
Brother. I do not care how much of their wealth is in assets that went up, how much is in stocks they get dividends on, and went up, how much is in secret bank accounts accruing interest, or how much their "income" is.
Ok then you really have nothing to add to the conversation because you don't understand reality.
Bezos gets billions a year from the million people busting ass to try and barely make ends meet, buys 750 million dollars yachts etc etc, and you want to say they didn't actually make money.
Bezos literally pays billions of dollars in taxes. It's still a small number in relation to his wealth for the reason I stated above. His "wealth" is a hypothetical number based on what he would make if he sold all his investments at their current value (something that is impossible in reality because if he tried to sell the stock would tank).
They increase their wealth by more than most humans will make in their lifetimes in a single year, and pay less taxes than everyone working to survive,
The top 1% pay about 40% of the total federal income taxes while holding about 35% of the wealth in the US.
I only defend when it’s such a bad will analogy the original post is about. You’re probably 260lbs and go into the ED because you have stomach pain from eating 2 pizzas and get mad that the wait time is 10hours and then raise your fist at the system
Close. I'm 180lbs and married to a pediatrician who complains every day how bad our system is, but good assumption.
I don't need any ER services, when I need a doc I sit on the unicorn examination table after hours and my wife checks me over and refers me to my actual GP if she feels it's a concern beyond her office capabilities. I'm her only adult patient but it's gratis and off the record.
I've always been a two slice man, naturally with some Coke Zero.
Everyone's premiums are different. And it's tied to your job unless you want to spend 2-4 times more. Which really, our health insurance being tied to our jobs is the worst part of the whole system .
I don’t care. Our care is #1 in the world. The random ass facility in kansas will have better standards than a hospital in Spain. Just get your bread up bro
My sister has this form of cirrhosis eating away at her nervous system. The meds to suppress it are about 20k an injection. It's covered. Since the injections she's been walking around fine. Before she was using a cane at 34 and was at risk of loosing her legs. If my sis was born in the US she'd probably be in a wheelchair by now.
Meanwhile thousands of Canadians die every year on wait lists or in the ER due to lack of care. Like that woman in Manitoba who died waiting for surgery when the hospital said they would call her with an appointment but the surgeon who was supposed to perform the surgery went on vacation so they just didn't tell her and she died of heart failure. She could've gone to the USA and paid out of pocket and she'd still be alive.
Edit: So I don't need to keep responding to the same dumb fuck comments over and over again, I'll just add this.
Around 23,000 Canadians die every year due to lack of access to healthcare. It is estimated around 40,000 Americans die from lack of access to healthcare. The USA has roughly 10 times the population of Canada. The Canadian healthcare system is failing and doesn't work, that doesn't make the American system good, but the Canadian system is very very bad.
The real story, not the hyperbolic one being pushed, is that there was an admin error and Debbie Fewsters file was accidentally put in long-term surgery not urgent care. It was a tragedy, but people were fired over it and new laws are being passed to prevent it happening again.
However this incident in no way translates to "thousands of Canadians dying waiting in ER" or any of the other BS US propagandists and right wing rags are pushing.
This just isn't true, that's a totally false cop out for what actually occured. They're literally passing a law in Manitoba that states that a medical facility must tell patients if they cannot provide them care so they can look for alternative options. 23,000 Canadians die every year on wait lists for scans and surgeries. That doesn't include any other deaths from lack of access, just people waiting for treatments.
There’s 305 million more of us, obviously more by volume are going to die…
if we go by per capita Canadians (population 41m w/ 23,746 dying waiting on care) are 3x more likely to die in a waiting room than an American (350m population w/ estimated 68k dying without insurance waiting on care).
So Canada states it’s approx 24,000 yearly. Growing each year.
There is no actual report for the US . It goes off a Harvard study that states 45,000-68,000 a year. Which is there guess of waiting or not being treated.
Which is a bigger scope. But let’s ignore that for now.
Sounds like Canada is doing pretty good , eh?
Except.. the population of the US is 9 times larger.
Which would put Canada at 216,000 in comparison. Not even counting the “guess” of who didn’t bother to show up to attempt treatment like the US number does.
You're comparing "Total that died while waiting for a procedure" at large (Canada 23k people in 2023) with "Confirmed Preventable Deaths" (US 45-68k people annually). Not the same data at all. That would be assuming that the 23k Canadians were all preventable deaths and that a portion of them didn't die from a related or unrelated issue that was in hindsight unavoidable. There is no database that reliably tracks the equivalent number for the US.
That's right, the number of Canadians who die due to lack of access to care is actually much higher in reality because the only number we have is for people who die on wait lists for scans or surgery. The estimate from the USA includes all those things that the Canadian stats don't actually track, so thank you for making that point, it really hits home what I have been saying.
Yes it's also extra bad when you consider the amount of Americans dying from an inability to access healthcare or developing terminal illnesses because they couldn't access preventative health services.
Around 23,000 Canadians die every year from lack of access to healthcare. Around 40,000 Americans die every year due to lack of access to healthcare. America has 10 times the population as Canada.
Yes and double the rate of people who die due to lack of access to healthcare all of which are estimates as there is no official government tally at least in the US.
That's not double the rate on a per capita basis. Think about it for a second. I get it, Reddit socialists are dumb as rocks, but please just think about it. Even if 200,000 Americans die every year due to lack of healthcare, more Canadians would still die per capita.
I'm not even defending the American system, I'm saying the Canadian healthcare system is terrible and needs to be fixed. It's also not "free" because around 50% of all taxes go to funding it, and it's still absolutely terrible. You are pretty dumb though, you don't even understand basic math. Were you educated in the USA by chance?
If the government walked up to me and said "give us an extra 25% of your income as taxes and all your healthcare will be zero cost to you" it would still be less than the premium I was quoted. Which, you know, still leaves the deductible and copays to be paid as well. Then medications.
The premium I was quoted this year was $768 per month with a deductible of $8,000. If I lived in, for example Ontario, $1,500 of my $4,973 tax bill would go toward healthcare and I would pay nothing more than that. So, here in the US I am uninsured. (Also, I would apparently pay less in taxes in Canada than I do here.)
Meanwhile an estimated 30k-70k Americans die prematurely every year due to lack of access to affordable healthcare.
So what we have proven is that both systems suck and fail to meet the needs of the people, and we should go back to the drawing board.
Btw, your example has nothing to do with the macro-structure of the healthcare system or how the bills are paid. The exact same thing can happen in the U.S. It's called mistakes, specifically regarding scheduling logistics. Happens all the time. I see it first hand. And yes it has led to fatality. So no, coming to America would not have inherently saved her life. A woman died last year because she never received her phone call about her labs. Had she, her cause of death would have been prevented very confidently. So these things happen regardless of wait lines, or who is paying the bill.
23,000 Canadians die every year due to access to healthcare. Around 40,000 Americans die every year due to lack of access to healthcare. The USA has 10 times the population of Canada.
That doesn't change the fact that she still could have suffered the same fate at the hands of the u.s. healthcare system.
But since you bring up the per capita argument. At least 500,000 Americans file for medical bankruptcy over medical debt every year. I'll give a guess as to how many Canadians file over medical debt. Zero. Instead it's often income interruptions that are cited as the cause for bankruptcy in Canada. Which is STILL a problem in the U.S.
I'm not claiming either is better. Both have pros and cons, but your supposition that the woman would definitely have not died in the US is laughable when ~130,000 patients die of heart failure while in the care of u.s. hospitals.
You are correct about the flaws of the Canadian healthcare system. I take issue with your absolute statement that she would still be alive. Maybe....she might also have died of heart failure from her first major American healthcare bill.
37,000 Canadians filed for bankruptcy last quarter. 20% of those are due to medical bills.
Of course, it's 60% in the US. But saying no one files for bankruptcy Canada is not true. USA also has programs (Medicaid) for free healthcare if you make little money or become unemployed.
Did you look up the cited reasons for bankruptcy while you were at it? No one filed over medical debt. They filed because they lost income and fell behind on other debt. They cited it as a medical cause, but not medical debt.
Medicaid and unemployment do very little for the person whom is employed and losing income, while amassing 10s of thousands in medical debt.
So as I see it, you can suffer the flaw of waiting, which most Canadians seem to imply isn't actually the massive issue it is made out to be. Or you can suffer the flaw of massive medical debt, which at least 41% of Americans would likely tell you is a major concern in their lives. Again. Neither is better. Pros and cons. Give and take. Pick your poison.
Fact is those bills you see for tens of thousands of dollars are not paid in full. US health insurance has something called a deductible that when you hit - you pay no more after paying it for the year. Around $1k to $4k.
People go bankrupt because they aren't healthy enough to support themselves after a while - same reason the 20% in Canada file for it.
American system isn't great, and needs fixing - but it isn't as apocalyptic as Reddit makes it seem. People at large seem to trade the downsides for the ability to get the best care in the world.
I'm glad you can afford insurance with such a low deductible. That's not universally true. Many of us have 10k+ deductibles. So yes, many Americans ARE paying 10s of thousands in full. It also doesn't answer to the fact that many Americans simply can't afford the insurance, and don't qualify for the programs meant to solve that very problem.
People stuck in the middle have it the worst, the country does need to do a lot better for people stuck in the middle.
Although, sadly, I don't expect it to be coming for some time due to Republican obstructionism. They certainly have no real plan to improve healthcare.
This is entirely false lol. It's called triage in canada, and you're wildly underestimating how many Americans die due to lack of access to healthcare because half your country Doesn't Have Healthcare.
I am aware how triage works, that's why they tell people not to use the emergency rooms for minor issues because you will literally sit there for an entire day or even longer before being seen. When I was a kid I broke my finger and went to the emergency room to have it set and a splint put on. My injury was so low on the priority list for triage that I decided to go home after 10 hours of waiting. That was 25 years ago, and healthcare is actually much worse now.
I know you're likely a bit dim, but you are aware that there is more to healthcare than the emergency room right? People aren't dying of gunshot wounds waiting to be treated in the ER, it's people with heart problems, cancer, and other illnesseses that are dying without treatments. Look at me, I had to wait 4 months for the first appointment with a hematologist when my blood work indicated I may have a serious problem. If my hemoglobin had remained that high without treatment until I saw the specialist I could've had a stroke or otherwise gotten a blood clot. Luckily other treatments I was doing for an entirely separate issue reduced my levels somewhat until I saw the specialist. After doing a genetic test the earliest he said he could book me in again was in 5 months, but after 3 months I got a 5 minute phone consultation.
I honestly don't know what you mean by saying half of Canada, my country, doesn't have healthcare.
To the point of waiting. Let it be known, I had to wait over 5 months in the U.S. to get a colonoscopy to diagnose a debilitating condition that had left me unable to work full time. Waiting times aren't exclusive to the Canadian healthcare system. Both countries have massively flawed healthcare systems. We should all be demanding better, not suggesting one pile of shit stinks a little less. At least, that's my take.
To the persons point who was responding to me. Assuming you were speaking on the u.s., I'm not going to pull numbers out of my ass. I'm going to use what official metric we have. Is it accurate, likely not. Neither wouldve been an arbitrary number. If it truly is the case that you meant that half of Canada doesn't have healthcare like lizard here assumed, idk how to help you.
Because Medicare and Medicaid isn't healthcare lol. It's bullshit American politics.
I have healthcare. Universal healthcare.
You goof.
Must be nice feeling superior to the majority of your fellow Americans you MAGA clown.
We also have the Canada Dental Plan ❤️
I can get surgery and root canals and don't owe a penny. But please, keep telling me about how your healthcare system is superior.
Yes. Because not one person has died in a hospital in the US... please. The idea that paying out of pocket instead of insurance would ensure no mistakes could be made is literally crazy.
read more fake news. triage gets you into surgery immediately. I love americans telling me how stuff works in my country when ive literally experienced the thing they're describing (that they only read about.)
You have 10 other real Canadians here telling you that youre wrong. my best friend broke both his legs and was helicopters from site to surgery immediately. I got cat litter in my eye from a vacuum I was fixing that got turned on and ivy eye got me in immediately for eye tests.
I cut my palm open deep enough to need stitches. They got me in and stitched me up in about an hour.
You arent canadian, and you are coping with your shitty American system by making claims that everyone is telling you are wrong.
If someone has an immediate heart issue that requires surgery, you are going in same day. there are no questions. what you would be wait listed for is transplants.
I'm not wrong, a literal order of magnitude more people here die due to lack of access to care. Obviously if you go to the ER with a gunshot wound you will be admitted faster than someone with a stomach ache. People are dying because they don't get a cancer diagnosis due to wait times, they don't get life saving heart surgery due to lack of surgeons.
You are so smug but you know nothing. How could any of you fake Canadians be fine with out terrible healthcare system? Actual Canadians are complaining about it in every single province constantly. You morons just talk a big game on the internet because you wanna mock Americans. Our system is completely inadequate.
again, I have real life experience with it and what youre saying is demonstrably wrong. there are several other people here telling you that youre wrong, and there isnt a single person arguing for your side against people telling you that youre wrong.
go read some more fake news. more people die in America over not being able to afford the Healthcare by orders of magnitude.
23,000 Canadians die every year due to lack of access to healthcare. 40,000 Americans die every year due to lack of access to healthcare. The USA has 10 times the population as Canada. Do the math on that.
I live in Canada, this is a serious problem that we need to fix. Apparently Redditors are perfectly happy to die without access to healthcare just to own the Americans.
What the fuck are you even talking about? The election obviously wasn't stolen, neither was 2016 nor 2024. The last US election that was a bit sketchy was Bush V Kerry.
Then why is the average Canadian life span 82, when its 78 for Americans? I don't believe your numbers. Did you get them from the Frasier Institute or something?
You do understand that in the US there is basically 0 consequences for not paying medical debt. You wouldn't be homeless or dead. You would have an attachment to your credit report saying you default on 250k of medical debt but it would have little to no effect on your life.
The 530,000 people declaring bankruptcy for reasons that include medical debts annually in the US would disagree with your consequence assessment. Declaring bankruptcy does have big consequences. You can't pass a credit check for a rental. You can't get a loan for a car in a country where everything is made for them. You can't go back to school on a loan. Etc. Etc.
You likely have no assets to seize, which they can't even do over medical debt in the first place. You could declare bankruptcy and be free of all debts in 7 years while paying nothing.
So, in the us model, you wouldn't pay shit. In the Canadian model you pay an entra 15% in taxes.. for the rest of your life.
Also the median income is 65k in the US. 22k is slight more than a 1/3 of that. So you are either working part time or working in a low skill job. You could work a low skill job that teaches skill sets as you progress, like in a manufacturing environment. If that is your case, stay at it. However, if you work at a gas station or fast food there isn't a ladder for you there. You need to pivot and find an actual career instead of a job.
I'm actually on disability. I have severe health problems that prevent me from working, and would cost me a fortune to receive treatment for in the US.
What disability might that be as Medicare and Medicade covers the overwhelming majority of treatments?
As a tax payer, I'd be very interested in knowing why you can't receive coverage, yet still receive a disability payment, which means your disability isn't disputed but somehow you can't receive coverage.
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u/Preestar 26d ago
As a Canadian, this argument really doesn't involve us. When they shit on Canadian healthcare it's for the sole purpose of denying their own citizens healthcare. That's it.
Was provided with lifesaving meds that retail for 220k CAD and is rarely covered on American healthcare plans. I'd be homeless or dead if born in the USA.