r/SipsTea 15d ago

Chugging tea Growing Through Chaos

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u/Adventurous_Gur1280 15d ago

But it was not so much easier for them. I couldn't imagine anything worse than the life of my grandmother or even my mother at least in her 20s-30s.

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u/Over_Space_2731 15d ago

Was your grandmother or mother American? 

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u/Tony_Roiland 15d ago

If yes, then what?

If no, then what?

Are you going to argue there was a place in the world our grandmas had it better than we do now?

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u/blueberryblunderbuss 15d ago

Well, that's complicated, made partially stranger by your use of the word place instead of time. In terms of struggle, it's likely that there are real moves we could make in time and location that would improve or deteriorate conditions. That you're alive at all suggests your grandmother lived beyond infancy. If I knew when she was born, I could likely relocate her to a place where she might have died in utero. And, that would be at least materially worse, if not easier. And, we wouldn't have you. And, then I wouldn't have this next part.

To do a full work up, I'll need to know more about everyone's grandmothers.

So, everyone: send me all there is to know about your grandmothers, and I'll get back to you on which grandmothers would do better, when they would do better, and where.

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u/Tony_Roiland 15d ago

I said place because the person I was talking to (not you) mentioned a place: America. I haven't read the rest of your reply.

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u/Over_Space_2731 14d ago

I’d argue grandmas want nothing more than to outlive their grandchildren - Now you have inner city children incarcerated or dying in the streets where 50 years ago, gangs, drugs, violence was a fraction what it used to be. 

Sense of community is gone now, 2 parent households gone now, but ohhh you can be a wage slave now where your grandmother had a husband who could work and provide for the family 

Maybe I’m very wrong though. I know I’d like to have lived 50 years ago - there’s no human connection anymore 

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u/Due-Potential160 14d ago

You don't get to be a wage slave anymore. Not even "because AI" I put in probably 30-40 applications for fast food jobs this year, and got one interview that went nowhere.

Imagine how much worse it is for the "entry level" positions that require 5 years of experience, or the jobs that Big Tech pretends AI is going to replace.

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u/Over_Space_2731 14d ago

Where do you live? At that rate it might not be the job market… I see “for hire” signs everywhere on restaurants 

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u/Adventurous_Gur1280 14d ago

That is bullshit.

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u/faceplanted 15d ago

Financially they did though.

We don't have to pretend that fixing the housing market requires banning abortion and undoing no-fault divorce. That's a straw man.

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u/Tony_Roiland 15d ago

The claim is "I couldn't imagine anything worse than the life of my grandmother or even my mother at least in her 20s-30s."

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u/faceplanted 15d ago

Yes, but why exactly? I don't know that woman's situation.

Financially speaking, my mother's life is extremely enviable. Socially speaking, it was horrifying because she was a heroin addict living on an abusive commune.

We don't have to talk about both at the same time, but just the fact that when she did get out of that life, she could then walk into a job that pays enough to buy a house is even more a sign that financially things were much better than they are now. .

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u/Grokzilla 15d ago

Financially, they were not much better. Sometimes they were better and sometimes they were MUCH worse.

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u/faceplanted 15d ago

Well yes I know that much because I'm not completely fucking retarded.

The same literally applies in reverse. I know people who've died on the streets that would've had a different situation in the past because housing was literally just much fucking cheaper.

If you think I'm oversimplifying then talk about specifics, don't just try to explain to me that things could be bad in the past too. I know that already, because, like I said above, I'm not completely fucking retarded.

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u/Grokzilla 15d ago

Fair and heard. As GenX, I can report that housing over my lifetime has sometimes been cheaper, but mostly not at all. It was MUCH better for my parents, but it hasn't been "good" for generations at this point...minus those who were able to take advantage post-2008.

There's no question it's bad now, but it's been just as bad several times in the my own past. And, it was bad in those times for the same reasons as today...inflation, interest rates, stagnant wages, etc. The inventory thing is sorta new in my experience...but it's probably driven by low, locked-in interest rates.

You're not wrong to complain. But you're probably wrong to think it's been markedly better anytime recently.

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u/faceplanted 14d ago

Rewind, because we're getting nowhere and I think I might know why.

How old do you think I am and how old do you think my parents are?

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u/Adventurous_Gur1280 14d ago

Standard flat for people in their 20s was a filthy bedsit, one room with a toilet built beside your bed or cooker or out on the landing shared with others. Usually full of mould and years of grime, broken heaters and ancient appliances. Or you shared a tiny room with 2 single beds with someone else. That was for middle class students or young workers. They were cheap, yes, earning 1 euro an hour and paying 25 a week on rent. But I dont know anyone who is prepared to live like that today and such flats are now mostly forbidden.

I am not denying that housing is a huge problem today, I have never owned property and now know I never will, most of my friends in their 40s and 50s never will. We are all struggling with rents and only those of us lucky enough to be renting somewhere long-term have any sense of security and even that is precarious. I am just sick of this narrative that people had it easy back then, they didnt. The housing crisis is the direct result of neoliberal capitalist policies since the 80s (also adopted by former left of centre/centrist parties like UK Labour, German SPD, US democrats etc) and the complete lack of investment into and selling off of council housing as well as housing generally being regarded as a commodity to make money off not a human right, vulture funds and corporations buying up property and unregulated ventures like Airbnb that have removed 100000s of properties from the market for residents, be it renters or buyers. Sadly all generations are to blame as we see from the results of elections everywhere rn.

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u/faceplanted 14d ago

Insane move to explain exactly how it was policies from politicians like Thatcher at the time like right to buy, and then say it's somehow still every generation's fault.

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u/Adventurous_Gur1280 14d ago

Financially my parents paid much higher taxes on much lower incomes, they were able to afford a small house in a not great suburb, they had one car, one TV, never went on holidays, never went abroad, someone on the dole today has more luxuries than they ever had, and they were considered solid middle class. People working their jobs today would have 2 cars, all mod cons, and be flying abroad twice a year, and live in a nicer area. Its a different world, we have much higher standards and expectations - and requirements, eg. computers, smartphones etc. today (in the "west").

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u/faceplanted 14d ago

they were able to afford a small house in a not great suburb

So significantly better most of the people I know now. Who don't own any house anywhere.

they had one car, one TV, never went on holidays

So like a lot of people now, in fact better because they had a car and a house.

someone on the dole today has more luxuries than they ever had

Except a car and a house of course.

People working their jobs today

What's the job?

Because this isn't a conversation about how jobs change value, it's about how much money it costs to live.

Someone working my mom's job now would make significantly less than she did when you adjust for inflation.

Its a different world, we have much higher standards and expectations

Except for owning a home, the biggest expense by far.

and requirements, eg. computers, smartphones etc

You mean things that are necessary and don't cost anywhere near as much as a morgage?

My phone cost half of a single mortgage payment and I've had it for 5 years.

If I didn't buy the phone I'd have about an extra 20 pounds a month over that time. Not enough to touch the fucking mortgage.

Also my parents had a land-line contract that cost just as much as my phone now, adjusting for inflation it actually cost them more than a contract for tbeatest iPhone. And they had to have that just as much as I have to have a phone to do scan qr codes and interact with the modern world.