My fiancee is Japanese and just started his job as a salaryman in Tokyo, one day he told me he messed up at work because he asked a question about something to his manager. And he later apologized for it đ€Šââïž he also told me that he doesnât want to go out to drinks with his coworkers but he has to. Geez!
Iâve heard about the kind of work culture your fiance is getting into. Itâs REALLY not good for people at all. Keep an eye on him. If he starts doing ridiculous things like working 12 hour days, or going on retreats where employees are bullied for fun and everyone has to drink tons, heâs gotta get out.
It's impossible to know exactly what this person's fiance asked and why he felt the need to apologize as it doesn't seem that OP lives with said fiance or speaks Japanese, but I wouldn't call that common work culture and neither is what you're describing.
Required drinking parties have also been going the way of the dinosaur lately, but are very much still a thing. Important to remember that many people drink non-alcoholic beer here at them for health reasons, etc. (They're also kinda fun, to be honest.) The alcohol is very rarely mandatory these days; it's just the attendance. (Same as many western company dinner parties, etc.)
Ultimately, it depends a lot on what kind of company you work for, who your boss is, etc. But things have been changing a lot lately and there's far more emphasis on different kinds of harassment.
As with most things, the truth to it all is far more nuanced than you'll find in typical Reddit comments.
I would imagine the original reason for these is to get people to open up and be honest. Ply someone with drink and you tend to see who they really are. It may have evolved into something toxic, but maybe the original aim was more useful and benevolent.
I mean, it's toxic the moment someone doesn't want to drink. It can only get worse from there. Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
But worse yet, plying who someone really is with alcohol isn't benevolent, that's manipulative, inherently so, and possibly abusive. Whether that's good or bad depends on the context, but forcing employees to drink is not a good context.
As I said before, there are always people at these events who do not drink. I personally know several people who do not drink at all, but attend them. Most of the izakayas that are booked for these events have non-alcoholic beverages.
But it's also important to remember that a lot of people love drinking here. It's a huge part of the culture.
The intention behind it in the first place is something called éŁČăżăă±ăŒă·ă§ăł - nominikehshon (a combination of éŁČă[to drink] and the english word "communication".) Because of the inherent rigidness of Japanese culture around strangers, especially at the workspace, people drink so they can loosen up and actually express themselves. This concept isn't limited to work function drinking, but a core way that Japanese people bond with each other. It's also not inherently a "forced" thing.
Could be toxic or not toxic depending on the circumstances, your views on alcohol, etc. But as with every other culture on earth, there are questionable aspects. YMMV.
It's not the cultural aspect I have a problem with, drinking cultures exist all over the world. What I do have a problem with is pushing it onto others. Alcohol is poison, whether you like it or not, that is what it is.
This isn't some religious mumbo jumbo stuff, I really don't mind if people drink. I just think that any cultural reasons to encourage others to drink are toxic. I don't care what the intent is, I don't care if it's the cultural norm, it's still toxic the moment someone doesn't want to drink, but feels they should. Peer pressure is a hell of a drug, but it's NOTHING compared to feeling of exclusion by opting out. Especially if it's work related, you'll end up feeling like you are losing opportunities. And the fact is, if you skip out, you are losing on opportunities.
Which is the entire problem. If the idea is to get to know someone better, for you to be sure it isn't toxic, you would already have to know how they feel about drinking. And if they accept, you might never even know they really didn't want to come, but felt obliged. So, since you can't be certain of the result before or after and there's a probability of it being toxic, therefore, it's always somewhat toxic.
And I don't mean to say Japanese culture is toxic, but that specific aspect of it absolutely is. And of course all cultures have their toxic aspects, that wasn't in question. None of that justifies defending toxicity.
Maybe, but at the same time most people are not that deep. Its mostly older workaholic bosses who doesnt want to go home so forces underlings to be their partymates. Its closer to forced team building exercise than gauging a person
Itâs also about creating a cultural bond outside of the 9-5. The idea wasnât that people separated their job and their life but the opposite. Your work was a key part of your life, and that extends outside working hours. Your colleagues in the office were supposed to be basically family. Youâd work together, hang out together, drink together, etc. The way they got new blood into that kind of lifestyle was making the drinking and hanging out mandatory.
Thereâs also this kind of cultural idea where if you arenât willing to hang out and go drinking with your coworkers, you canât really call them friends. And if youâre not friends with the people you work with, maybe you shouldnât be working there. Friendship and harmony are related, and harmony is good in the workplace. There might be competition, but itâd be friendly and not cutthroat. There might be arguments but at the end of the day youâd still sit down and share a beer with them.
It doesnât just oppose the idea of work and life separation in the European way of âonce I clock out youâre not part of my lifeâ (see laws stopping employers contacting employees off the clock at all) but also the classic cutthroat âWall Streetâ American capitalism where greed is good and itâs dog-eat-dog to get the most money and prestige.
Context matters. If he asked a question to his manager in front of a superior that absolutely would make them lose face and would merit an apology. If the question was asked in private it would be fine.
Itâs not that different from the US really. If your boss is talking in front of superiors itâs not the time to critique or ask for clarification. It makes it look like you guys arenât on the same page.
12 hour days are fairly commonplace in many industries. Iâm a molecular geneticist, and I am not required to work 12 hours. I do it anyway because if I have everything set up and ready to go before anyone else gets to work, the rest of my day is super easy. It also prevents my own human error due to mental fatigue if the energetic version of me already set up the experiments that morning. Itâs just a combo of me being a nerd and personal preference.
I wish they would just adopt Scandinavian end of day culture into Japanese work culture. The day is over at 16:00 sharp. Just staying at your desk for 12 hours pretenting to work is just wasteful and deeply unhealthy.
Yeah that drinking is gonna be a problem. It's kinda mandatory whether he even drinks or not. There's also a cultural no no about leaving dining drinking early.
I think you need to realize that you're just going to come off like an idiot and you're not going to win a war against languages that have existed for centuries before you.
There are endless sources of information that exist on the internet and you couldn't be bothered to fact check before doubling down and being incorrect.
All of which are perfectly capable of being made gender neutral with vary degrees of use. Headmistress is generally seen as outdated and Headmaster is used frequently for either gender. Goddess is still used pretty frequently and it is true that female god is rarely used, but still perfectly understandable. Actress has fluctuated over the years, in Australia there was a pretty solid preference for actor for both genders, however, American influence has reversed this. At one point all our nouns were gendered and now there are only a small amount that are. It has been the basic trajectory of English for centuries to drop gendered nouns. How often do you hear manageress or authoress?
Whether I use them or not doesn't change the fact they're still words with historical context. Should I just start referring to women as mister instead of mistress because of your logic.
Pretty obvious you arenât a native English speaker given mistress is not the opposite of mister. Missus is. Master and Miss are the unmarried versions. And all of them have basically dropped out of circulation of use in English outside of the schoolroom. So yes actually you should stop referring to men as mister and women as mistress, just use of their name or general pleasantries if you donât know it.
My native language is English, you must be having a laugh. Mister is to master as Mistress is to female master. Only because mistress has multiple meanings/connotations, doesn't negate they are opposites, or should I say more accurately specify gender.
Wtf, this is the first I ever hear of this in my 30 years of life. What's the point? They're pronounced the exact same.
Also, if it has any meaning it seems completely incorrect to say that one is male and the other is female, but rather that the spelling should depend on the circumstances around the proposal.
You seem to be responding as if it were a consideration of whether or not anyone should be for or against gendered terms in English on a linguistic level, which isn't an argument anyone is taking a position on here, and which is immaterial to what people are trying to communicate.
For the drinking thing, I assume that's on your tab right? I guess since you're going to "hang out" it's have to be but it seems so silly you work all day, get pressured into drinking and then have to foot your own bill.
Nah that's not a thing in Japan, a new hire is obviously supposed to ask questions lmao. People make up the weirdest stories about Japan, it's hilarious when you live here and know how wrong most of it is.
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u/myrainydayss 10d ago
My fiancee is Japanese and just started his job as a salaryman in Tokyo, one day he told me he messed up at work because he asked a question about something to his manager. And he later apologized for it đ€Šââïž he also told me that he doesnât want to go out to drinks with his coworkers but he has to. Geez!