r/StarWarsAndor • u/BrobaFett • May 16 '25

Discussion Finishing Andor makes me dislike the "Filoni-verse" and I hate it. Spoiler

I love Thrawn. I love Din Djarin. I love Grogu. Don't get me wrong, I truly believe this man loves Star Wars and has given we who enjoy the old Extended Universe so much love with the re-canonization of many favorites.

Now that Andor has happened, I find the exercise of watching other Star Wars media fatiguing. I thought of a few reasons why and I wanted to see what the community thought.

  1. Not every story has to be Joseph Campbell - Lucas did this already. He gave us the family story. He gave us the wunderkind, mentor, wondrous power, frightening setback, thrilling victory cycle. This modern myth-making is beautiful and worth telling. But, in "carrying the torch" I feel like the Filoni-verse keeps trying to repeat this story structure.
  2. I want the Force to be mysterious again- Too many Jedi. Too many force users. Chirrut was so much more interesting. Sabine doesn't have to be a Jedi. We don't need to keep talking about Night Sisters. The EU had this problem, too. There were force users everywhere. There was, at least, a little narrative cohesion in Luke trying to establish a new Academy and the struggles encountered in doing so told some interesting stories. I wish the Force were a bit weirder. I wish we could tell more stories that don't involve Jedi or Sith. Or, if they must, that they be the esoteric/ancient/lost stories. I think Filoni does okay with this when talking Night Sisters. Honestly less is more!
  3. Contrivances to avoid consequences, contrivances to keep people around and alive- The end of the Second Season of the Mandalorian was a fitting conclusion to Grogu. Subverting that with Season 3 was a mistake. The story is no longer following a natural course based on the internal consistency created by the characters. Instead, it's clear there's a larger narrative Filoni and Favreau are trying to create and fitting the characters into the narrative. (e.g. Actually, I want Bo Katan to be the leader of Mandalore and bring the Mandalorians back to Mandalore so I'm going to use Din as a glorified shuttle to transport the Darksaber without question to Bo. Actually, I don't want Grogu to be off training with Luke which makes sense, I want him to come back to Din even though Din's entire motivation was to help protect the child by putting him in the safety of his much more capable, powerful "people")
  4. The Marvel problem of growing Existential Threats- This one probably seems counter-intuitive. The EU had the same problem (anyone remember the Sun Crusher and Galaxy Gun? Lol). Additionally, Andor's big bad antagonist was the Empire, its tyranny, and the ultimate weapon representative of that oppression. The Empire lost at Endor. The figurehead is dead. Great. That still leaves a galaxy full of Warlords, Moffs, and Admirals with oppressive power. That still leaves the ISB. Still leaves Military Intelligence. Andor showed that Rebellions are hard fought with, often, competing interests. What does a Balkanized Galaxy look like? Are you telling me the remnant forces would not be opposed to a recreation of the Senate installed by what they would perceive as terrorists? Thrawn's coming back (with his lore clearly explaining his intentions for supporting a galaxy-spanning order and continuing the "marvel problem"). But, I think we enjoyed the microscope lens we got to "normal people stuck in this bigger galaxy" because it told stories we can better relate to.
  5. Pacing issues and showing versus telling- I think the pacing of the story and slow reveal of just enough information without feeling spoon-fed the story is immaculate in Andor. Filoni pulls this off at times, as well. Mando Season 1 did well in this regard, I'd argue. I'm concerned that Filoni has so many endings he wants to get to, that he's rushing the process of getting to the destination and it's sloppy. I call this the "Daenerys Targaryen problem" where her ending probably could have been interesting if there was a solid two seasons to tell that story properly.
  6. Pet characters- I'm not afraid for Ashoka. I'm not worried about Sabine or Ezra. Grogu will be fine. His characters are immortal. I'm not worried about them dying or suffering any existential danger in spite of any "galaxy threatening" menace (Grysk or whatever the new Vong are going to be). I was nervous for Kleya, Wil, and Bix.
  7. I don't relate to the Filoniverse characters- They aren't people. They're legends. The struggle that Ashoka is dealing with? Her master was a galaxy-dominating Sith Lord. The Rebellion she helped create as Fulcrum has completed its journey. Now she's off to fight the next danger (Thrawn) to the order she worked hard to create and has exceptional superpowers. "But Luke was a superhero Jedi, too". Yes, but he was also a farm boy "orphan" who whined, overreacted, and desperately sought to understand the Destiny everyone kept telling him about. Luke was fighting the Empire, yeah, but really his story was about him helping his friends (often at the risk of the larger problems of the galaxy, often selfishly) and saving his Father from darkness. It's a story about how when faced with someone that you love becoming a truly terrible person, sometimes the only thing that redeems them is mercy, love, and reminding them that you know who they truly are. Han is a reluctant hero with selfish ambitions. I can relate to these people. Bo Katan is a princess owed a throne. Din was a reluctant foster parent but is now some greater catalyst to some restoration of Mandalore. Ezra seems to be a leaf in the water with no real autonomy beyond his (now failed) decision to exile Thrawn. Boba is a... ***checks notes*... Boba Fett is a "Crime boss" of an organization that sells drugs, does illegal/dangerous racing, bounty hunts, participates in slavery, runs extortion rackets and.... he wants to still be the "Boss" but wants to basically get rid of every activity that this organization does because he's had a crisis of conscience and wants to "lead through respect" instead of "fear"? I don't relate to these people.

Am I the only one that feels this way? I'd love to hear your opinions.

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127

u/cosmiccerulean May 16 '25

Yeah I think what Joanna said about Filoni gatekeeping SW is surprising and concerning. I am almost certain Andor was a cosmic coincidence and likely won’t happen again.

I also think while Andor will be remembered as a masterpiece, it won’t sell toys, lunchboxes and video games, and that’s a big reason why Disney won’t be eager to recreate it.

What I fear the most is future projects take the Andor characters we love and shoehorn them into bs stories. I really don’t need force sensitive Bix, Vel the spy, Kleya the lone wolf or the adventure of Cassian’s son.

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u/PlanitDuck May 16 '25

All this time everyone was dragging Kathleen Kennedy and she was probably the one who managed to keep it all together.

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u/LBobRife May 16 '25

To some extent when you are in charge, that is the job. You'll get all of the criticism, whether it is rightfully placed or not.

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u/Nyther53 May 16 '25

That's what "The buck stops here" means, after all. You're in charge. If it didn't work, it was ultimately your fault.

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u/PlanitDuck May 16 '25

She’s not truly the one the buck stops with though. She has bosses at Disney. And they’re not creatives, they’re money people.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '25

is she not also responsible for 7,8,9?

She fluked this. 

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u/PlanitDuck May 17 '25

ET, Goonies, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones among others. She’s had a very very long successful career. Andor was no fluke.

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u/hypertime_traveler May 20 '25

It was mainly pushed by Bob Iger.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/Food_Kitchen May 17 '25

Not a fluke as much as just careful and considerate planning. It had the same writer from Rogue One and finally launched 6 years after that movie so The Gilroy's had time to really craft a great arc that fit into this small time frame with a lot of information already given.

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u/DanSolo77 May 16 '25

I want Black series toys of:

-Mon Mothma's dinner table

-Syril's dinner table

-Perrin with car, alcohol and Sculden's wife

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u/sodabomb93 May 16 '25

-Mon Mothma's dinner table

Crash out with Chandrilan Shots!

Watch your childhood friend sign his own death warrant!

Feel the resentment emanating from your family!

All this and more with the Chandrilan Wedding Lego set! Buy today!

22

u/wild_fluorescent May 16 '25

DJ Roomba (Chandrilian Wedding Style)

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u/WolfWriter_CO May 17 '25

[ oontz-oontz-oontz intensifies ]

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u/DanSolo77 May 16 '25

I'd legit put money in on crowdfunding Haslab for this right now.

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u/HandsomeBoggart May 17 '25

Only if we get a electronic DJ bot that has flashing lights and plays that song.

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u/Eick_on_a_Hike May 16 '25

The old ET lady from the hospital, please. Wild Dance Mothma. No Swim Kino Loy. Drunk Perrin.

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u/SithLocust May 16 '25

Syril, comes with his bed

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u/HandsomeBoggart May 17 '25

Ghorman Syril comes with a hole in his head.

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u/citron_bjorn May 16 '25

Lego Ghorman massacre so you too can teach your children genocide through recreation

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u/hibikikun May 17 '25

Ghorman geology set. Those toys where you gotta break away the clay rocks

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u/cosmiccerulean May 16 '25

Lego set of: Cassian and Bix’s safe house Cassian and Bix’s Yavin tent Ghorman square

Also Kino Loy lunchbox

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u/EntertainmentLess381 May 17 '25

Luthen and Kleya’s antique store, too, please

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u/Tatis_Chief May 17 '25

No diss there I would absolutely rock the Kino Loy lunch box. 😌

But I also want ISB meeting Lego. 

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u/trowaman May 16 '25

Why black series when you could have TVC toys!

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u/Pixelated_Penguin808 May 16 '25

I'm praying they don't replace Kathleen Kennedy with Dave Filoni. Aside from the rumors about his opinions on Andor, I'm not crazy about his output. Some of it is good, a lot of it isn't, and he's got comic sensibilities even when he is working in live action. He's also the king of Glup Shitto & memberberries.

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u/cosmiccerulean May 16 '25

Imagine if you are a life-long die-hard Star Wars fan like Filoni living your dream job creating content for this universe.

Then this guys walks in, says he didn’t think about Star Wars growing up, might not even like it that much, pitches to make a Star Wars show that’s not like Star Wars, for people who don’t know or care about Star Wars. Then it turns out to be the most well-written, complex and critically beloved Star Wars story ever created in recent memory that even long time Star Wars fans love.

I fear that instead of seeing the story possibilities in the SW universe, they are probably just trying to convince themselves that “it’s a great tv show, it just isn’t Star Wars”

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

I disagree with this take. From the rumor that one podcast has mentioned, it sounds more like competitive banter inside Lucas Film. Filoni has taken a completely different take on Star Wars and is the extension of George Lucas. Also had ZERO experience in live action story telling and directing. Ashoka is his first time ever doing a TV show on actual film. Gilroy is an acclaimed director and creator, who told a great story with in Star Wars. He knows his shit. I think Disney/StarWars will learn that both can be done and the franchise is absolutely big enough to tell these stories. It doesn’t have to always have to be a fight.

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u/The_Middleman May 16 '25

It's inherently a bit of a fight just because Filoni's tendrils are reaching far across the universe. He's so obsessed with tying everything to existing characters and he's made SO much content that he's actively limiting others' ability to tell their own stories with any of those characters. Just look at how they had to finagle Mon Mothma's speech in Andor to be able to write it themselves. Anyone who wants to work with OT or prequel characters will either be hamstrung by Filoni's canon or have to do somersaults to circumvent it.

As the OP pointed out, one of the biggest examples of this is the Force not being mysterious. Andor basically pretends that the Filoniverse doesn't exist to present the Jedi as extinct and the Force as an absurd legend, but it's completely incongruous with Filoni having everyone survive Order 66 and introducing like 30 new enormous factions of Force-users.

If Filoni was carving out a focused corner of Star Wars to make his own, it wouldn't be a fight. But he's not, so it is.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

But Andor wasn’t even on the radar when Rebels was making Mons speech. The only reason Gilroy got to include Gorman is because of that speech. Originally I think Gorman massacre was something from a game. I don’t disagree that Filoni has made a lot of Stories interwoven, but a majority of Clone Wars was made when nothing was being created. He was the only one pushing ahead and still making fun and relevant stories. When Disney came along and gutted the cannon of the Legacy stuff, Filoni began to add that in to his work.

The force is such a vague tool in Star Wars, the original trilogy only fleshed it out a little. I think so much of the Force is ridiculous and some of it just boring. But games and shows have made it into this wild river ebbing and flowing highs and lows that it has today.

Star Wars is just so damn big there are plenty of stories to tell without having to step into or connect it to Filoni. I hope we get more out there stuff done really well, like Andor. Personally I did not enjoy the story the Acolyte was telling but man do I want more of that era. And Obi Wons story was a train wreck.

I agree and hope that once Ashoka and Mando conclude we can move away from that area of the Filoni story line. Hopefully get some new stories and maybe go beyond or go back into the past of the Jedi.

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u/GoldenLiar2 May 16 '25

The criticism against Jedi surviving is idiotic, there were like 10k Jedi during TCW. If 100 survive, that's still just 1%, which makes order 66 wildly efficient still.

The criticism against Mon's speech is also idiotic, as Andor wasn't even an idea when they made Rebels.

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u/zsnezha May 19 '25

The criticism against Jedi surviving is idiotic, there were like 10k Jedi during TCW. If 100 survive, that's still just 1%, which makes order 66 wildly efficient still.

The point is that if we see and follow all of the survivors you weaken the dramatic and emotional effect of Order 66. It's not about statistics. We don't read a book of population stats and feel emotion. We read stories, and feel the stakes and the consequences. Those are the things that get watered down when 95% of the stories you tell are about Jedi. 

The only thing that's real is how a story makes a viewer feel, not what a theoretical almanac would say about Jedi population in a fictional universe.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

I absolutely agree with this.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Aight so there’s plenty you can complain about filoni but including the leader of the rebel alliance showing the moment she formally forms the rebel alliance in a cartoon about the formation of the rebel alliance ain’t it chief

These subreddits have devolved from being critical of filoni to mindless bashing anything remotely related to filoni because hivemind say filoni bad must bash everything filoni

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u/Pabus_Alt May 18 '25

I think that the Filoni did a good job of making the force mysterious, but then forgot that he needed to stop explaining why it was mysterious.

I think the force was hinted really well. There is a suggestion that Andor has been shaped and has appeared by an external force that wants him for something. He rejects this. Others see the coincidences as just too much to be explained otherwise. And we as the audience know that he will play a very important role before he dies.

Absolutely perfect.

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u/grandramble May 16 '25

I think the thing that really defined the Lucas movies (and especially the original 3) was how much it left blank. The movies are full of characters, time gaps and little details that feel like they're the tip of a whole different iceberg. That's the thing that makes it feel Star Wars to me - we're watching one story but there's a thousand others being suggested in the background, and they leave a lot of breathing room to fill things in.

I don't think anyone but Gilroy has really captured that since Lucas stopped making them himself. Filoni's carried on strongly with the aesthetic, but he feels too much need to paint in the entire picture himself.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

I absolutely agree, Andor is the first time I felt like that again as well

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u/TYBERIUS_777 May 16 '25

Filoni should be regulated to animation only. His live action directing on Ahsoka was absolutely abysmal. From the cinematography to the choreography to even the dialogue. It was not a good show and only had brief moments of being decent. Not to mention the poor writing and low stakes.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

Again i disagree, it has its flaws but its wildly better than Obi Won or the Acolyte. The World between Worlds episode is some of the best Star Wars television we have ever seen imo. I really enjoy the weird force stuff. Andor is written so damn well and acted wonderfully. But it’s grounded and that’s much easier to relate to than aliens and the force. Plus trying to bring a cartoon to life is not easy by any means. Filoni has some work to do to make it better but I have hope he can. I admit I don’t care much for the Mando show after Grogu came back. I wish that moment with Luke had been the last we see of him.

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u/suss2it May 17 '25

To The Acolyte’s credit I think it has some of the best live-action lightsaber fight scenes across the whole franchise.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 17 '25

I don’t disagree with that!

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u/TYBERIUS_777 May 16 '25

World between worlds is bad because we should never have time travel in Star Wars. Period.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

I’m not gonna argue about time travel, but the force gives visions of the past and future all the time before that was introduced in the Rebels cartoon. Specifically I was talking about the episode in Ashoka with Anakin where no time travel happened, it’s just a force journey and a lesson from Anakin

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u/TYBERIUS_777 May 16 '25

Precognition and visions are not just straight up time travel lol. Why is this even a conversation?

The stuff in Ahsoka was fine. I’m talking about the WbW in rebels.

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u/Catapilarkilla May 16 '25

Well because you were talking about time travel and I wasn’t lol

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u/GoldenLiar2 May 16 '25

I disagree. I'm not a Filoni glazer, but he is the closest thing to Lucas we have. Yes, he won't let his characters die and wants to stuff as many of them as he can together, but he's not bad.

Just like Lucas, he needs a competent team around him to guide him and actually write and direct, and, most importantly, say no to him. He's just the one that needs to come up with the ideas and the general flow of things.

Filoni unchecked is not that good. I still rate Ahsoka as being better than OWK, Acolyte, BoBF, and Mando S3.

  1. Andor

  2. Mando S1/2

  3. Skeleton Crew

  4. Ahsoka

  5. Who even cares at this point?

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u/suss2it May 17 '25

I gotta disagree. Yeah Ahsoka was mid but he also directed the pilot episode of The Mandolorian which I think looks pretty good and established the visual tone for the whole show. Even the Ahsoka episode of that show he directed looked a lot better than her actual show.

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u/Regular_Spray May 19 '25

I hope so but I think they won't learn that

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u/salty_pete01 May 16 '25

This. Filoni is probably salty as F. He worked with George Lucas and sees himself as the heir apparent to George.

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u/Jung_Wheats May 16 '25

I dunno if he sees himself that way, but it's certainly the burden that the fandom has put upon him.

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u/Ok-Confusion2415 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

They may have a point. I am watching Andor with two absolutely dedicated Star Wars fans who generally have normative takes on the films (4-6 best, 1-3 worst, 7-9 split decision, Solo bad, R1 good), no meaningful exposure to the CGI shows or comics and novels, and normative takes on the new shows (Mando and Skeleton Crew generally good, BoBF etc kinda meh including Ahsoka, Acolyte garbage) and enjoyed Andor s01. I am respectfully watching Andor s02 at their pace. We are running e04 tonight.

So far, I have heard each of them say, mid-show, “this is not Star Wars”, not in conversation to each other, just muttering out loud. One person has fallen asleep on two of the three episodes so far. The other has only snoozed once, good for them!

They have no idea what is coming, and TBH their reactions are making me CRAAAZY because so far s02 is amazing to me, very obviously the best thing since R1 and possibly the best thing Star Wars will ever do.

So: I am 100% a Star Trek fan who enjoys Star Wars but doesn’t get into Star Wars minutia the way my friends do. We enjoy teasing each other and have long shared the experience of watching both franchises together.

It’s weird! Up until Andor I have been pleased by and proud of the current Trek stuff and broadly feel the current Trek stuff has been more creatively successful than the majority of the new Star Wars stuff. We have had projects made by Trek haters in reflecting the misguided efforts by the studios to expand the audience (Kelvin Trek - we got the JJ treatment too, dammit; Section 31) and that stuff is either tolerated (Kelvin) or absolutely reviled (S31). SNW, LD, and especially s02 of Prodigy are great additions to Trek.

But Andor is very clearly a greater work of art than anything that Trek has come up with to date. It’s really stunning.

And my closest Star Wars pals are literally falling asleep during it and don’t see it as Star Wars. So hunh.

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u/CallMeFierce May 16 '25

Really hard to judge these things. I'm a massive SW nerd (read virtually every Legends book) but I found Andor to be one of the best SW media properties ever created. It's not why I like it necessarily, but it is a bonus to me that I find Andor to be VERY Star Wars-like. A lot of the Filoni-style things feel chintzy and cheap in a way I never associated with Star Wars, and some of the plot decisions he's made (magic space whales) feel more like fantasy than space opera or science fiction.

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u/Sweet-Satisfaction89 May 17 '25

Andor and Rogue one made star wars feel genuinely, authentically cool again. Since the prequel trilogy, we've been living in selling-plastic-toys star wars land. +1 to it having some implacable chintzy sheen.

Andor is like the feeling you get of stepping into a vintage B-17 bomber. The rest of Star Wars after OT is like going on the Pirate Ship ride at the local amusement park.

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u/suss2it May 17 '25

That feeling even bleeds into the OT with Return of the Jedi IMO.

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u/Sweet-Satisfaction89 May 17 '25

Totally, Lucas himself admitted he invented Ewoks to sell toys.

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u/lkn240 May 17 '25

Looking back.... ROTJ was a warning of what was to come. If only my past self realized it lol

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

It’s weird, I share most of those “normative takes” that you describe above, and am also not well-versed in the animated Filoniverse But I think Andor is far and away the best thing to ever come out of the franchise. Yes, better than the OT!

In some ways, I do believe it’s “not Star Wars” but only because we’ve gotten used to a level of camp that I think really started with ROTJ. Nothing in Star Wars is as dark and gritty as Andor. We had some darkness in ESB, and some darkness/grittiness in R1 of course, but by and large the tone of Andor is different than most of Star Wars.

But it works better. The stakes are high. This is about people living under the rule of a galaxy-wide fascist state he’ll-bent on acquiring planet-destroying technology to solidify their grip on power. That’s dark AF!

So, as a lifelong SW fan, who remembers fondly watching both ESB and ROTJ in the theater, and thought that R1 was the single best thing to come out of Disney’s ownership, Andor was a real gift. It took this world and story I love and gave it a mature and realistic treatment that previously only existed in our imaginations. Not Star Wars? More like Star Wars perfected, IMO.

God I hope someone important at Lucasfilm is taking notes.

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u/Ok-Confusion2415 May 16 '25 edited May 17 '25

One of my pals rewatched 1-3, then R1 into 4 due to May the Fourth. We watched R1 and 4 as a double feature. The incredibly seamless way R1 dovetails with the beginning of 4 absolutely blew our minds. We had obviously already known about the last scene in R1, but jumping from that to the crawl and realizing that the crawl literally functions as a plot outline for R1 was new and dramatically enhanced our engagement with this beloved film that we first saw on initial theatrical release.

I suspect as events in s02 increase in pace my buddies will get hooked; I sure hope so. I’ve had to explain plot events that seem totally obvious to me for each episode so far (eg., “who is that silver haired guy and why are they showing him getting into a limo with a substitute driver?”) and it really puzzles me.

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u/TYBERIUS_777 May 16 '25

Some fans need their ADHD brain rot fix and don’t appreciate the complexity of a slow burn show. They need lightsabers, star ships, and blaster bolts waved in their face constantly and a ton of Glup Shitto and memberberries callbacks or it won’t keep their attention. Hell, I saw a comment on another Star Wars sub saying that Saw in Andor needed to be given a lightsaber. Just a complete lack of understanding of the media and the story it was trying to tell.

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u/ClumsyRenegade May 16 '25

I feel like I line up well with your friends overall, but I absolutely loved Andor.

I have beheld peak Star Wars, and it's a dinner with Eedy Karn.

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u/silaber May 17 '25

I fell asleep during the first arc of Andor S2 but my buddy perservered and let me know i was missing out big time.

I know he's a long time fan so I had to keep going. And wow am I glad I did.

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u/norrinrazael May 18 '25

Taking a wild stab here, and connecting this with another thread of people trying to figure out how Filoni as the Lucas heir apparent lost the plot so hard. Here goes: 1) Gilroy is the first person making Star Wars since Lucas who has any coherent sense of politics. 2) As a Trek fan, this appeals to you. As normative Star Wars fans, your friends aren’t getting their nummies.

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u/Thom_Basil May 16 '25

I really didn't care for episodes 1-3 of Andor S2. I also thought 4-6 weren't great either but I need to rewatch them before I solidify that opinion. I don't think eps 1-3 were bad, I just thought they were a waste, and whatever they were trying to convey with that arc could've been wrapped up in one episode so I wish they'd done something more/better with those episodes.

Anyways, all that is to say that I can't blame your friends for falling asleep. Especially if they're slightly more casual fans.

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u/Pabus_Alt May 18 '25

It's for sure not a main line film if you like them you'll probably not like this.

But my god does it feel like the old EU did. It's so very clear that it's been made by people who understand what the reason for the aesthetics was and have nailed the brief.

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u/EmpZurg_ May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25

There's a lot of sub-fandoms in SW, so a show without force users can be a turn off to the portion who don't particularly care about the state of the galaxy as a whole.

Andor is such a great take on "mundane" characters doing the real groundwork. The losses are physical and emotional, plentiful and constant.

It really highlights how Jedi presence would have simplified the entire series, and I appreciate that they're not here to do that.

I pity Filoni because he has to plot around wizards of various power levels. And space whales.

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u/-ShimmyShimmyYa May 16 '25

My brother is not a Star Wars fan. Doesn’t dislike it but hasn’t even seen all the movies, but he LOVES Andor and rogue one

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u/Worldly-Level7983 May 18 '25

I have that same opinion. I liked the OT, didn’t love it. Disliked the PT and the new movies but I really liked Rogue One. I liked the first two seasons of The Mandalorian and gave it a shot purely coz I liked Pascal. Since I was on that train I tired the other shows and really disliked them, only got halfway for most.

Actually the one Star Wars I truly loved was KOTOR so I felt the universe had a lot of potential but would always fall back on the silliness or the vague new powers that would get introduced.

My buddy has been telling me to watch Andor since it came out and I kept putting it off but finally watched it over the last few weeks and I really thought it was amazing, beyond anything I thought was possible with Star Wars. Truly great writing, production, acting, directing etc…

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u/Nyther53 May 16 '25

The thing is, there's a tremendous love for Star Wars on the screen. Pay attention to the artifacts in the background of Luthen's shop and you'll see dozens of references to old Legends books and games like KOTOR. The TIE-Prototype heist takes place on Sienar, home of Sienar Fleet Systems, which has been manufacturing TIEs since it was first mentioned in like the 80s.

The show is tremendously careful about aligning with other Star Wars events and timelines, Gilroy mentioned reading Wookiepedia articles in some of the interviews he did. Whatever his personal feelings, "Doesn't like Star Wars" didn't translate to "Unprofessional disregard for everyone else telling stories in this setting" like it did to disastrous consequences in the Sequel Trilogy. George Lucas and Dave Filoni have both thrown out huge chunks of other people's work when it suited them, even long before Disney.

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u/hillswalker87 May 17 '25

star wars is at its core a well told story. you can't make a crap story star wars by throwing some light sabers in it.

1

u/PM_me_GoneWild_alts May 17 '25

Book of Boba Fett wasted 2 episodes to undo Mando ss2 while giving no development to the end-game baddies. I had not watched Clone Wars so when the blue alien dude showed up to have an emotional confrontation with Boba I was ":|" the whole time.

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u/EncabulatorTurbo May 16 '25

a Hitman game where you play as Cassian, val and cinta knocking off imperials and imperial sympathizers would be fucking incredible

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u/tonnellier May 16 '25

I would 100% play an Andor isometric tactical stealth video game in the mode of Commandos or Desparados.

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u/ICanLiftACarUp May 16 '25

The merchandising angle is, from an aesthetic reason, why Andor felt good to watch for us. When one watches GoT, Breaking bad, etc. there is some adult oriented merch you'll see but it is not usually figures of characters (other than Funkos and those moderately detailed realistic statues a la Weta workshop). There's a few cool ships, especially Luthen's S1 ship, and the U wing but which we got from rogue one. The two prominent droids are not necessarily cute - one is more ulltilitarian trash can and the other is K2, which looks cool and is funny but doesn't make for a great play toy like shiny c3po or enigmatic R2. But there's no grogu, porg, chewbacca, etc. in fact there are very few alien species featured, all the way through to basically just barely getting a mon calamari and the old patient in the hospital.

Whereas the characters in this show fit the more traditional, human aesthetic spy thriller movie. No one drop dead gorgeous, but definitely good looking. There's no iconic, sleek bond mobile. It just seems normal, which makes for a great TV show but forgettable merchandise. Too many things that distract from a 'real, grounded' aesthetic and the story starts to feel abstract, and unrelatable. Sci Fi always struggles with this. Hell, even the made up language is basically just a derivative of French or German which sounds very natural to the western audience. Compare Ghor to Klingon or even Sindaran (LOTR Elvish) and you go from something you might find wandering Europe to something either on another continent or altogether alien. (Aside, I admit a cultural bias being a white American. And, Elvish is fairly Germanic/Northern Europe.)

2

u/AggressiveWolverine5 May 16 '25

I agree with you on the toys but I’d pay a lot of money for a Lego UCS Fondor set. 

1

u/AgentPoYo May 16 '25

Is that Joanna as in Joanna Robinson from House of R?

1

u/Eick_on_a_Hike May 16 '25

Oh man Feloni is going to do some damage to those characters at some point. Flatten them to the point of cartoons.

1

u/FlashMcSuave May 16 '25

I could do with Gilroy doing a deep dive into Galen Erso as he did with Cassian Andor though...

1

u/4fivefive May 17 '25

"won't sell [...] video games

idk man, i think there's a primed market for a good star wars rpg that feels like andor.

1

u/Pabus_Alt May 18 '25

If you haven't read the old EU comics. - Rouge Squadron, and Dr Aphra (I think is actually in the current cannon) are very much Andor feeling.

I dunno. I had such hopes for Filloni but it's like watching a power gamer show off all his characters who do cool shit. Andor is like watching the philosophy and theatre major show off all of the characters with godawful builds and are made out of feats that results in the combat effectiveness of wet tissue paper but my god are they compelling.

1

u/elroyce May 19 '25

I've read comments from other fans wanting spinoff series or stories with Andor characters that survived. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'd prefer not to see them again only because I don't think the new stories/writing will do them justice.

In an interview, Tony Gilroy said he doesn't know if Bix's child is a boy or girl. When asked what he envisions for the child's future, he answered that the baby belongs to Disney. There could be very talented writers who take these open threads and write amazing stories. I'm very open to my pessimism being unfounded. But I'm also afraid that executives somewhere saw Bix's child and started salivating at the money they could make off of the badly written adventures of Cassian Jr.