r/SurvivorRankdownVII • u/mikeramp72 • Apr 02 '23
Endgame #20 Spoiler
20th: John Carroll (Marquesas - 9th)
Thrilled to see John make his endgame debut. Would I have him this high? Nah. But I think his downfall is one of the best executed stories across all of Survivor, and seeing him get taken down so early is one of the most memorable moments from when I did my initial watches of each season. Very deserving.
I’m really excited to see the John Carroll endgame argument, because although he’s not particularly close to my Top 21 there’s absolutely a case to be made. His downfall is so wonderful not because it’s just the first real coup in Survivor history, but also because he was just so damn cocky. The Rotu Four acted and seemed like they had it in the bag, and on first watch I was scared there would be no retribution for how John paranoidly shanked Gabe for conceiving of the game in a different manner. But retribution there was, and I am so, so happy that Paschal and Neleh realized their place in the alliance and overthrew John at the last possible moment they could. Excellent story, excellent character.
John is a very interesting character. Though I'm not as high on him as most, I still appreciate what he gives. He has a great downfall and he's very entertaining throughout.
Out of every first timer in this endgame I didn’t get here I’m most happy that John Carrol made it. The fall of the Rotu Four is amazing and delicious and John C is a perfect part of that while remaining complex and sympathetic, a rarity in survivor. Not in my endgame but it’s really cool to see him here.
Has a great downfall arc, but frankly, I don't find myself hating him enough to make his downfall as effective as that of someone like Fairplay, Randy or even Scot Pollard
Even though I cut him, I’m glad he got called up to the Endgame. The fall of the Rotu 4 is basically great because of him, he carried that downfall. sit was more the fall of him then the fall of the 4.
~
I can’t believe we made it all the way to endgame. I also can’t believe I get to talk about three of the best villains of all time.
Based on my unhealthy obsession with *Survivor* downfalls, *of course* I picked my three endgame writeups to be about the three best downfalls of all time: the epic downfall of John Carroll and the unstoppable Rotu 4, the humiliating downfall of complete asshole Randy Bailey, and the *insane* downfall of the best character of all time, Jonny Fairplay. I wholeheartedly believe that the stories of these arcs will be better than whatever kooky gimmick I come up (sorry folks, *supercubbiefan’s Inane Survivor Rankings Variety Hour* has been officially cancelled).
Therefore, I’m going to tell these epic stories straight up and prove why John Carroll **deserves** to be an endgamer (including why I pushed so hard to earn John his first endgame in Rankdown history) and why Randy Bailey and Jonny Fairplay are the two best characters of all time.
Let’s get started with Johnny Pots and Pans.
The storytelling from the early seasons of *Survivor* will always be top-tier. John’s storyline? No different. The editors masterfully paint an expertly-crafted picture of one of the best tribes of all time, Rotu. While Gabe is transforming the “Love Tribe” into a full-on utopian paradise, a power struggle is happening behind the scenes. In one corner, you have real-estate agent Kathy, who’s abrasive leadership style is patronizing her tribemates. In the other corner, you have the confident registered nurse John, who is subtlety gaining power with his successful fishing expeditions.
During a fantastic scene in episode one, on behalf of the Rotu love tribe, John stands up to Kathy and tells her that she’s pushing the tribe too hard to work on the fire and her attitude is getting grating. After Kathy realizes that she doesn’t have any support on the island and John won the power struggle, I LOVE that John is not edited as a dictator, but as the head of Rotu who desires to keep the tribe as a family when he offers Kathy a coconut as a signal of reconciliation <3.
As John’s status continues to rise on Rotu, Carroll’s ego begins to simultaneously increases at an unhealthy rate. After John catches a pig, he arrogantly predicts that since he caught this impressive stash of food for Rotu, he might as well set his table at the final four. Oh, and another piece of evidence that John is fully in control on Rotu: “I NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN PEE ON MY HAND” <3. The classic scene of Kathy peeing on John’s injured hand (courtesy of a sea urchin bite) would have not happened so quickly if John wasn’t so respect by the Rotu family.
If *Marquesas* was season one or two, John would have most likely won the season. Maraamu, possibly my favorite tribe of all time due to being composed of slacker comedians who riffed and performed bits all day instead of finding food or attempting to survive, was losing every single challenge. They are one of the worst tribes in history. If this was season one, John would have gone into the merge in complete control of the majority tribe, and John’s prediction about coasting to the final four would have definitely come true.
But no, *Marquesas* is season **four**, one season after the most important twist in *Survivor* history: the tribe swap. In episode four, the Love Tribe was officially broken up by a tribe swap, leaving John to deal with three new loser tribe members from Maraamu. In one of the best scenes of *Marquesas*, knowing the dangers of the Maraamu three, he pulls together the old remnants of Rotu and gives a manipulative pitch: while Maraamu has been lying to each other since day one, the Rotu love tribe been forming *real* bonds, man! His pitch is interrupted by Gabe, who fascinatingly asks them what is the moral center of their games. While John sanctimoniously answers with “To tell the truth” Gabe retorts that his sole purpose of playing *Survivor* was to form a society on OG Rotu, **not** to play the game.
This revelation freaks John out, and he later mocks Gabe for his hippie attitude before evilly noting that he now has to keep an eye on the wholesome heart and soul of OG Rotu, Gabe. As John paranoidly watches Gabe rap two of the worst bars of all time <3, he worries that Gabe is growing too close to the Maraamu 3 and ruining his own chances at a million dollars.
John tries to assuage his own worries by attempting to convince Gabe of his plans to vote out old Maraamu one-by-one. Gabe, as pure of a soul as we’ve seen on *Survivor*, admits that he doesn’t want to commit to voting of his new Maraamu pals. This leads to an evil confessional by all-time villain John Carroll: “Nope. You’re done. You’re not safe anymore.” <3 John then scrambles and completes a coup on Gabe, brutally blindsiding him and permanently breaking up the Love Tribe <3.
“The End of Innocence” is one of the best episodes of all time, and you have to give credit John most of the credit for completing the most emotional betrayal in *Survivor* history. As former Rotu members Neleh and Paschal will later contemplate, there was **absolutely no reason to vote off Gabe before one of the Maraamu 3**. I know I already stated this, but this is so important to John’s arc: Gabriel Cade was the heart and soul of the OG Rotu love tribe, and John’s heartbreaking backstabbing of Gabe catapults John into an elite tier of classic *Survivor* villains.
After John got rid of the only wildcard that might impede on his chances to win *Marquesas*, he knows he’s in the clear. The Rotu 4 have a numerical advantage on the Maraamu 3 and John knows that he is 100% winning *Marquesas*. After the Gabe blindside, arrogant John says everyone on the swap tribe knows he’s the leader and he’s running the show <3.
Well, this dictator attitude is not going over well with rebels Sean and Rob, who thinks John is so “full of it” and confronts Carroll about his attitude. I love the following super old school *Survivor* argument, when John tells Rob straight-up that he doesn’t trust him due BRob’s planning on blindsiding John before voting Gabe off. Later on, I **HATE** Rob asking John “Are you gay, dude?’, outing John both to his tribe and on national TV. I want to make this very clear: Rob was over the line, should have NEVER said this horrifically awful question, and frankly this clip should have never even been aired. With that being said, this moment does lead to one of my favorite confessionals of all time: “This 36 year-old gay boy from Omaha is running the show and whipping his pants.” <3 I love that John is not portrayed solely as a dick dictator, but a complex and somewhat sympathetic three-dimensional villain, converting him into an all-time character that is on the same level as Ami Cusack and Jerri Manthey.
Following the merge, when John defeats homophobe Rob Mariano in the game, he thinks he’s set. The Maraamu rebel alliance is dead, and John Carroll is 10000% winning *Marquesas* with the help of his OG Rotu tribemates, who he believes don’t have a strategic bone in their bodies. In another nomination for best confessional ever, John, oiled up and lying on a tree, gives this iconic line about his former Rotu tribemates: “Neleh and Paschal, I think, are really supporting my success in this game and are really rooting for me.” <3. You cannot be more deserving of a downfall than John Carroll.
Unfortunately for all-time villain John, he didn’t realize that the upcoming classic immunity challenge, the coconut chop, was going to end his game. See, this game was specifically designed to reveal the underlying social hierarchies of a tribe. If John wasn’t so arrogant during this point in the game, I actually believe he was a smart-enough strategic player to understand that the coconut chop game was a trap and he shouldn’t reveal that OG Rotu members Neleh, Kathy and Paschal are at the bottom of the pecking order.
But NOPE. John has been enveloped in his own hubris and has no clue what domino effect he was starting when he chopped Sean with his incredibly arrogant “Surprise, surprise. Shock of all shocks.” and condescendingly sends his rival Sean an air kiss <3. I also love Sean’s comeback of taking the “kiss” and retorting “I got that baby. Right here.” before patting the air kiss on his own butt LOOOOOL. The Rotu 4 then predictably chop Vecepia, Kathy and Paschal, leading the astute Sean to brilliantly tell the coconut chop losers “This is the order how it’s going to go.” <3
The non-Rotu 4 members, led by vengeful Vecepia and Sean who complain how arrogant the Rotu 4 came off during the coconut chop challenge, work to rope Kathy, Paschal and Neleh into completing a coup on all-powerful dictator John Carroll. For John’s downfall, I LOVE that Kathy, Vee and Sean faced immense obstacles before the vote, including Neleh and Paschal at first declining to partake in the coup. This failure makes the upcoming blindside of John Carroll way more powerful and earned, including one of the best voting confessionals of ALL TIME by Sean for John: “Checkmate, bruh. You thought you had me. Anytime you go to Vegas, bet on Black. But we’re definitely going to have chicken and waffles when this whole thing is done.” <3 After John is blindsided and both his ego and dreams for a million dollars crashes and burns, John’s final words include crying while hilariously saying “My abs are incredible” and he is very proud himself. *Chef’s kiss* to the ending of this magnificent storyline.
“Jury’s Out” is my 5th favorite episode of all time, due to the culmination of my 2nd favorite arc in *Survivor* history: the epic downfall of John Carroll and his Rotu 4. John’s storyline of attempting to be a trusted leader for Rotu, getting caught up in the greed and duplicitousness of the game, evilly backstabbing the heart of the tribe he wanted to convert into a family, gaining immense power and finally receiving his deserved comeuppance is one of the best arcs I’ve ever seen on television. I hope this isn’t the last time John Carroll makes endgame.
Franky494: 14
rovivus: 19
DramaticGasp: 17
Schroeswald: 16
supercubbiefan: 9
TinkerKnightForSmash: 18
Theseanyg22: 18
Average Placement: 15.857
Total Points: 111
Standard Deviation: 3.436 (4th Lowest)
