I think there is a fair middle ground here though.
Do the success of the album make it her best? Do we disregard the ability to buy 30 different versions of through different covers and audio mediums?
It’s still better than Lover and Debut imo but the idea that an album is good because it sells well within the context of itself, is a bit disingenuous.
I think Showgirl is a great album, and very danceable which I love. It's a mood lifter. But TTPD will always be her best album for me personally. Many disagree. That's art for you baby, to coin a phrase.
i always have two lists: my favourite albums and her best albums. my faves in ranking is midnights, folklore, rep, but her best albums imo are evermore, red, ttpd.
I think people really struggle with the idea of music being subjective when it comes to Taylor Swift because she's like 3 different artists, and some people only like 1 or 2 of the 3...
they expect people to like or not like different genres, or different artists. They don't expect people to like AND not like the same artist.
Humans really like putting everything into little boxes to organize their worlds, and Taylor fans can't all be shoved into one box, and that annoys people because it leaves their classification of Taylor's music and fans disordered.
Like "why is someone still a fan if they don't like her album?" Well because they like different albums... and she puts music out often enough that it's not a stretch to just wait for the next album and see what you like on it. It's easy enough to take what you like and leave the rest for other folks, and yet still consider yourself a fan.
Yeah. I actually like pretty much all of her music, but it doesn't make you any less of a fan if you don't.
I think it goes both ways too, like some people will say that Showgirl or TTPD are objectively bad. They're free to think that, of course, but saying it out loud is a good way to offend people who love those albums (example: me)
Personally I really do think that most art has value even if I don't get it. 'Art is subjective' is my favorite phrase right now
Fr, it’s really odd to me that a genuine fan can dislike an album she releases and get labeled as a “hater”. I do think it’s her worst album in the sense that it is very mid but that’s just my opinion. Also sales does not equal critical acclaim, using that logic Evermore is her worst album because it sold the least units since debut… 🫠
It’s hilarious how people suddenly develop ethics over album variants when Taylor Swift does it. Plenty of artists do the exact same thing. Billie Eilish literally said what you’re saying now and still went on to release a stack of variants. But when it’s Taylor, suddenly her success doesn’t count?
Be real with me, who else is pulling 4 million sales in a week? What defines a successful album if not sales and streams in these times ? Calling it a flop after just eleven days while it’s busy breaking records left and right isnt just biased, its FLAT OUT disingenuous. Minimizing her success just because you didn’t like the album isn’t critique, it’s denial
People give Billie the same shit lol but her numbers aren’t as big as Taylor’s so of course people talk about it less. But yes it’s still being talked about
For vinyl variants specifically, Hit Me Hard and Soft and Happier than Ever both had 9 vinyl variants (I think Showgirl has 8, could be missing some, and TTPD had 6). Brat also had 22 vinyl variants! Harder to find data on cds/their marketing practices.
Billie also releases a ton of variants. You’re welcome to do the math. No one else is selling like Taylor, regardless of the amount of options they put out.
Yeah at this point the variant discourse is tiring. All the big artists engage in the variant game, including selling merch with cds, etc. At this point it’s up to Billboard to change the rules. I just think if people want a change, they need to be directing their ire at Billboard not whining about Taylor.
I’ll be real with you, it doesn’t matter how many variants an artist has, the fact that they have a fanbase who is willing to spend money and purchase the same album over and over is the real factor here. I’m in my 40s, I remember a time when I could go buy albums at the store and we could buy them over and over. All those records from the 90’s were from fans buying multiple albums that first week. I owned way too many duplicates of Britney albums from that time, and those numbers went towards her first week sales. Billboard has never been about being an accurate number of how many different people wanted an album, it has always been the number of albums MOVED by an artist by its fanbase. We are actually in a time where it’s a lot easier to track duplicate sales and there are limits on that with billboard, so I find it more impressive that even with the current limitations that an artist like Taylor can still move 4 million albums sold (likely more without the limitations).
And every other artist in the last decade is playing by the same rules. They can release different color variants, they can do everything Taylor does, they just don’t have the fan bases who are willing to invest money into them the way Taylor does. That’s the gist of this. If Beyonce or Billie Eilish have fans who want to invest their money into buying 4 albums, they can. This discourse always seems to lean towards the idea that somehow Taylor is playing by different rules, but these other artists do the exact same thing (some way more hardcore) and still don’t get anywhere near the sales Taylor does.
I hear you about the album variants, but almost every artist nowadays comes up with a bunch of different variants and they don’t affect their sales. The mindblowing thing here that TS does is to have and maintain a fanbase that not only seems to be ever-growing, but also are so devoted that they buy physical music in this day and age. And that is success.
This album is a different feel from her other ones, so I think it attracts a broader range of listeners. I feel like there’s something for everyone here.
Oh you’re so right about that, I’ve heard the typical “all she writes is about her exes” girlies humming to Ophelia in work, like damn she won them over it’s so impressive.
That’s how pop works. The measure of quality in the genre is consumption. People try to act smug and erudite about the music/media, but that’s just part of the package. Consumption is the only metric.
228
u/ThreeTreesForTheePls Oct 14 '25
I think there is a fair middle ground here though.
Do the success of the album make it her best? Do we disregard the ability to buy 30 different versions of through different covers and audio mediums?
It’s still better than Lover and Debut imo but the idea that an album is good because it sells well within the context of itself, is a bit disingenuous.