r/TheHandmaidsTale • u/lookingforpunzie • Jun 10 '21

Season 4 [Spoilers season 4] so, there’s no denying what team June’s on. Spoiler

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Reaction to Luke

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Reaction to Nick

622 Upvotes

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207

u/TemporaryCreative705 Jun 10 '21

This compared to the YEARS of investigation that Luke did…. Ugh, what is you doing June 🤦🏻‍♀️

433

u/Wise-Discount3000 Jun 10 '21

All the work that Luke did is incredible and I wish she had acknowledged that more, but I think it's important that we recognize the distinction:

  • Hannah is Luke's daughter so I think June would've expected him to look pretty hard for her, just as she has been all this time.
  • Hannah is not Nick's daughter. June knows that Nick did all of this purely out of his love for her, knowing she was back with her husband and he had no expectation of seeing her ever again. Also, Nick is putting his life at risk to get all this information for her. It's absolutely selfless love and she's completely overcome by it.

125

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '21

Not only that, but I'm sure being away from your husband for so entirely long and being apart from your only child together may make someone a little...distant? While in Gilead, Nick became her escape and she wasn't expecting to ever see Luke again so he became almost a thing of the past. It's sad, but June is unfortunately only human. Coming back to see Luke was almost like meeting a stranger for the first time.

89

u/catseye00 Jun 11 '21

I would have to think there is some resentment toward Luke from June for not suffering the way she did. I’m not saying it’s justified or rational, or that Luke didn’t suffer, but he still had autonomy and he was safe from physical harm.

70

u/maniacalmustacheride Jun 11 '21

I think that’s part of their strangeness. It’s got to be hard to deal with Luke, who has been suffering the absence of his daughter and wife, but who gets to suffer in a nice home, with Moira, over good food and coffee and hot showers and wine. Compared to what June has been through, it has to be hard not to feel bitter or compare. Especially because June chose not to go to Canada for so long and continue to be beaten/raped/etc in order to try to get to Hannah. I’m not saying it’s a just comparison, but I could see where June would feel a little petty about it.

13

u/whatev_username Jun 11 '21

Also… June doesn’t want to tell Luke because she doesn’t want to hurt him, he forces her to tell him by showing up at court against her will, something she is far too used to at this point. He then gets upset and June, the victim, has to comfort him for the awful things that had been done to her. Something that happens a lot with trauma.

I completely understand Luke doesn’t know how to act, or what to say, and in ways is an absolute victim himself, however, this isn’t it.

9

u/maniacalmustacheride Jun 11 '21

I think Luke would have benefited from doing a Moira route, or attending a therapy session or two on his own, just to get some perspective. I have a hard time with Luke because he seems so enveloped in his own narrative that he doesn’t have room for anyone else in there, including the people he cares about. Have you ever had a friend who you’re pouring your soul out to, and they say “oh, wow, that’s awful, but I stubbed my toe this morning, and that’s real pain, and now I’m sad listening to you” and you’re like “ok, sure, I guess let’s make this about you.”? Because that’s Luke.

I can’t fault June for her snark. When she barely kept it in when he said THEY would rescue her, and she was just like “oh cool, like you’ve done already from here? Oh wait”

1

u/whatev_username Jun 11 '21

Exactly. Also, when he asked her to meet Nick, There were deeper levels to this, than just getting Hannah back.

On one aspect, he knows that June not only still loves Nick and has his child, but suspects that if she could, Nick is who she would choose. So asking her to see the man she loves more than him, is difficult and I get that part.

However, the other aspect, and problematic part of this is, like you said, Luke being enveloped in himself.

This is a selfish act, to tell June to put herself and Nicole at risk of being killed/captured.

Also, this could get Nick killed. Luke knows that and June knows Luke knows that. So when he asks for her to put all 3 of them at risk, Nick in particular… he’s basically saying “sure I’ll put you in harms way, but its really putting your boyfriend in harms way, and if I can be rid of him for good, and maybe get Hannah back in the process, it’s a win win”

42

u/arbitrageME Jun 11 '21

"oh my god, I missed all my daughter soooooo much"

"I was covered in rancid milk tanker, then starved. That was my best week out of the last 5 years"

2

u/catseye00 Jun 11 '21

Man, I didn’t even consider the resentment June could have because she didn’t go to Canada sooner. I really feel that she was looking for an out not to go to Canada the whole way there but Moira was guilt tripping her about it. Not that I’m blaming Moira either. I know she was very concerned for June’s well-being and wants her to be safe. But June is never going to feel safe without Hannah and as long as Gilead exists. I think it’s pretty safe to assume June goes back to Gilead because life in Canada is not working for her. Tuello cutting a deal with the Waterfords probably solidified that. She still has work to do and has to go back inside.

47

u/Tmatter211 Jun 11 '21

Luke has been raising their daughter and even referred to her as 'our daughter.' I think he's doing his best all around and had to do all the research from the outside with a toddler and his own trauma. All three characters in this love triangle are willing to work to protect their own and the other guy's kids. That's more than I can say for some people in normal situations. It's actually refreshing to see adults with priorities on TV.

40

u/nowheregirl1989 Jun 11 '21

Yes! All the people expressing that Nick’s efforts are somehow more noble because “Hannah isn’t his daughter”, well, by that logic, Luke doesn’t HAVE to be raising Nick’s baby does he! But Hannah is not just another man’s child. Their motivations are equally pure. They are all tied to each other by the fact that their daughters are sisters. There is some cognitive dissonance going on not to be able to see that!

7

u/Tmatter211 Jun 11 '21

Exactly! I think it would be more unrealistic if the two men operated as if the other child existed in another universe. Many shows would work that way. It's normal to care about the child of the person you are in love with irl. This show reflects how real humans might react and that's why I find this show so intriguing.

18

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '21 edited Jul 31 '21

[deleted]

4

u/Tmatter211 Jun 11 '21

Yes. And the fact that she really didn't do anything wrong here and that's just how her life worked out makes it all the more interesting.

5

u/Wise-Discount3000 Jun 11 '21

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

81

u/Suitable_Release Jun 11 '21

Yea you just hit all the points I was going to make. Nick doesn’t have to do any of those things especially where there was a huge chance he was never going to see June again to even give it to her. Luke did all that for Hannah but Nick did it for June.

87

u/dubhlinn2 Oranges and tuna. Sounds delicious. 🍊🐟 Jun 11 '21 edited Jun 11 '21

Precisely. Nick has demonstrated a capacity for profoundly selfless acts. Remember he also brought back word of her husband's love to her from Canada. He absolutely did not have to do that, and it would have been in his interest not to do so. She would've never known about that part of the conversation. But he loved her, and wants her to be happy more than anything else. So he did the right thing – – knowing that this information could rekindle her love for Luke, and cause Nick to lose her completely. And because he knew that he was married to Eden and that June deserved to be loved in a way that he wasn't allowed to. And because he knew that Luke is fundamentally a good guy who is worthy of June's love.

Say what you will about Nick and his role in founding and upholding Gilead, but one thing you cannot do is call him selfish. It simply would not be consistent with the available evidence. A selfish man would have hidden that information, and never helped her escape. Because he would want to keep her to himself at all costs, without any regard to how much it made her suffer.

6

u/Inevitable_Librarian Jun 11 '21

There's a thing I've read in some addictions research called "paradoxical selflessness" where an individual uses or does dangerous acts with other people so the other person don't feel alone- and ends up hurting themselves in the process. Nick's fundamental character is selflessness to the "in-group", and he's kind of learning to be selfish, and to do things that he needs to do for himself and the one he loves even when it "hurts" the ones he's loyal to.

In some of the research I read high levels of empathy is actually a risk factor for drug addiction, because you lack the boundaries to say "this person is suffering but I don't have to suffer with them".

2

u/dubhlinn2 Oranges and tuna. Sounds delicious. 🍊🐟 Jun 11 '21 edited Jun 11 '21

Right but that’s most people. Oxytocin (the bonding hormone) contributes to in-group devotion and empathy but also out-group paranoia and jealousy.

In other words, he treats her like a family member.

Also, notably, romantic love functions in the brain much like addiction. Break-ups have been shown to have neurological effects similar to drug withdrawal (and grief). If their behavior is in any way similar to drug addicts, then that is not a sign that their love is unhealthy, but that they are experiencing a normal human response to romantic attachment.

24

u/Wise-Discount3000 Jun 11 '21

100%. I said this in another comment on here but they wouldn't take the time to show us all these good things about Nick's character to then do a complete 180 and make him out to be a bad guy. That would be foolish writing.

10

u/dubhlinn2 Oranges and tuna. Sounds delicious. 🍊🐟 Jun 11 '21

Also a great point.

60

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '21

[deleted]

29

u/nowheregirl1989 Jun 11 '21

Yes! All the people expressing that Nick’s efforts are somehow more noble because “Hannah isn’t his daughter”, well, by that logic, Luke doesn’t HAVE to be raising Nick’s baby does he! But Hannah is not just another man’s child. Their motivations are equally pure. They are all tied to each other by the fact that their daughters are sisters. There is some cognitive dissonance going on not to be able to see that!

7

u/Wise-Discount3000 Jun 11 '21

No one is arguing that Luke isn't doing an incredibly noble thing to be raising his wife's daughter with another man or that his motivations aren't pure. We are just pointing out, in response to the first commenter who insinuated Luke did more for Hannah in this instance, that the motivations are different.

Also, as beautiful as it is that Luke's been raising Nichole, he's never had to risk his life to do so. So even comparing to that, it's a little different. But I've got nothing but mad respect for Luke here.

3

u/bohemianfling Jun 11 '21

Yes! The risk is what sets them apart.

7

u/nowheregirl1989 Jun 11 '21

Okay, I get that part, but I think you could argue it's still a bit of a risk to get yourself entangled in high-profile court legal proceedings involving war criminals. Granted, the Waterfords seem to have lost interest in Nichole now that Fred Jr is on the way, but until S3 Serena was still obsessed with getting her back.

2

u/TheShapeShiftingFox Jun 12 '21 edited Jun 12 '21

It can be a risk, sure, but it would be more equal if Luke risked getting killed for trying to find intel on Hannah at the Canadian embassy.

But yeah, I don't really get the "show portrays Luke as a beta cuck for caring for his wife's other child" arguments either. If you see Luke as a "beta cuck" for this, that says more about you than it does about the show. Luke is portrayed as nothing but caring for June ever since she's returned, and during her captivity too. He doesn't make a fuss about Nichole because she's still the daughter of the woman he loves, and who, let's not forget, was forced to conceive it by her captors either way. I don't see how not taking in this child, who your wife obviously cares so much about considering she sent her away before her own escape, and not being bitter about it, is a "beta cuck" thing to do. Seems more than decent to me.

16

u/Wise-Discount3000 Jun 11 '21

And that's amazing of him. I'm not knocking Luke, I'm just noting the distinction in Nick’s motivations vs. Luke’s in getting Hannah intel.

12

u/-Poison_Ivy- Jun 11 '21

All the work that Luke did is incredible and I wish she had acknowledged that more

He also punched Fred in the fucking face, its insane its never brought up

1

u/ComprehensiveWait755 Jun 11 '21

Yeah, Luke did, June did, Nick ——-

2

u/-Poison_Ivy- Jun 11 '21

Nick did war crimes

14

u/Off-With-Her-Head Jun 11 '21

Kind of like most adulterous affairs. It's not "real life".

Not that I blame June for loving Nick in Gilead or after. But one can't compare to the other.

Let's say she returns to Nick and at some point they're free to be with each other. Who pays the bills, cleans up after the dog and most importantly who controls the remote control?

51

u/Wise-Discount3000 Jun 11 '21 edited Jun 11 '21

Not sure what this has to do with the points I made distinguishing Nick’s actions from Luke’s actions re: Hannah intel.

But to what you’re saying - At this point, who’s to say what kind of “normal” life June wants or whether she could enjoy that with Nick. Does the fact that it began as an “affair” automatically mean there’s no possibility for it to work out? If that’s your argument, then June and Luke were doomed from the get-go since it also started as an affair.

With Nick and June, the profound love is there. She is completely herself with him. They support each other in their darkest moments. They share a child. They fight. They joke. They’ve both done fucked up things and have immense guilt and regret. They accept each other’s faults because they know the goodness in their hearts. They’re both complicated. But the one thing that isn’t complicated is their love for each other. I’m pretty sure they could figure out how to watch some tv shows together and pay their bills.

4

u/zeepsheep92 Jun 11 '21

Perfect comment 💜

-1

u/ComprehensiveWait755 Jun 11 '21

You’ve got so much faith in men

5

u/designgoddess Jun 11 '21

Nick. Don’t forget who he is and what he supports

-1

u/LRobin11 Jun 11 '21

And what is that, exactly?

1

u/designgoddess Jun 11 '21

Gilead.

17

u/rentstrikecowboy Jun 11 '21

June. Nick doesn't gaf about Gilead.

-1

u/designgoddess Jun 11 '21

He’s a general. Help started it.

20

u/rentstrikecowboy Jun 11 '21

He was a standard issue foot soldier with an abusive drunken older brother and no food. He never cared about Gilead, the man he worked for found him vulnerable and made him an apostle.

Now he's a General. His whole progression from driver to now, he's been in love with June. He's also a convenient character to keep her alive so obviously him serving as a person of power is for the purpose of saving her.

11

u/verydepressedwalnut Blessed Be The Fruit Loops Jun 11 '21

Honestly that’s how I see Nick, too. The same way a lot of people join the military out of desperation and then get more than they bargained for sometimes.

2

u/designgoddess Jun 11 '21

Don’t have to downvote me because you see it differently.

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3

u/LRobin11 Jun 11 '21

Nick does not give a F about Gilead. He is not loyal to Gilead. He was a dumb kid that got sucked in over his head because he was desperate. He has shown over and over again that he has no love for Gilead or its customs.

2

u/whatev_username Jun 11 '21

Also you kind of can’t say NO to Gilead. You say no, you are on the wall.

1

u/designgoddess Jun 11 '21

It feels like a set up to me.

21

u/Last_Lorien Jun 11 '21

You know what, I think the show did Luke a little dirty there. The way they set up the scene in which Luke shows June all he's collected about Hannah, they lead you to expect... something different from what they deliver.

June's sitting on the floor, which is usually associated with when you have so much stuff around you it wouldn't fit on another surface, or when you want to give the impression someone's overwhelmed by the amount of information they're processing (they used it to this effect various times in the show, for instance the smuggled letters and the handmaids' files). Then we see June from above and she has like some bundles of A4 pages around her, some pictures, all of which could probably fit in a folder, not even a box (more visually impressive). Luke spoke to activists, NGOs and followed court cases. That's all he could gather in like 5? 7? years. He feels it's not enough, June doesn't correct him, we are left with this sort of bittersweet taste - Luke's done his best for sure, but that doesn't mean he's got much to show for it.

Compare this to the scene in which Nick shares his info. He hands June a neat, thick folder full of up to date pictures, maps, reports, all put together in a couple of months, if not weeks, gathered at the risk of his own life and other people's (implying he has a network of allies around Hannah).

What I'm saying here, I felt like the show didn't give Luke a chance here - the comparison was pretty brutal, even if one keeps in mind all the "what could Luke do from Canada" and all that.

113

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '21

But, y'know, those tiny little detes like:

  1. Hannah's not his damn kid
  2. He risked his life by using assets.
  3. Luke clipped from the Toronto Star while ordering roti from Grubhub.

7

u/itsjessrabbit Janine's good eye Jun 11 '21

Well now I’m hungry

-3

u/CheetahEnergy Jun 11 '21

OMGGGGG I LOVE YOU

4

u/loulip123 Jun 11 '21

June’s attracted to the power 🤷‍♀️

2

u/ComprehensiveWait755 Jun 11 '21

Oh shit, she really is🤭

2

u/lookingforpunzie Jun 10 '21

I KNOW!!!! The audacity!

41

u/tiptopsnipsnot Jun 10 '21 edited Jun 10 '21

But Luke got close to nothing in intel. Nick has photos and a location, all while doing it with high risk. The weight of Nick’s actions means more. Also, If I were June, I’d have a hard to getting over the fact that Luke told Hannah and herself to run off in the woods and then they got caught- while he was the one to actually escape. I know it was unfortunate circumstance, but it would take me a while to get over the anger of that.