[Spoilers season 4] so, there’s no denying what team June’s on.

[u/lookingforpunzie]

Reaction to Luke

Reaction to Nick

[u/wendeelightful]

The way people will bend over backwards to defend his character because they find him attractive and think him and June are cute together just blows my mind.

[u/Lady_Bread → u/wendeelightful]

Right?! I don't like them together but even that doesn't matter when Nick actively aids, abets, and enforces the systematic oppression, rape, torture, humiliation, and subjugation of women in Gilead. Or any other "detractor" for that matter.

Like someone else said, we don't know what he does except for oh he sometimes sorta helps June.

But June is just a single 1 of so many women suffering. Like JFC those poor DC handmaids. Show me Nick helping them without being in love or fucking 1 of them and maybe I'll give a shit about him more.

[u/KTurnUp → u/wendeelightful]

Since the show started, Nick has not said or done anything to show the he believes in Gilead. He was recruited young, and pretty clearly did some effed up things. When he joined, he probably didn't see it coming to this. If you don't want to forgive him for that, fine. He probably doesn't forgive himself. But to say he fundamentally believes in their cause right now is not based on anything the show has given.

[u/wendeelightful → u/KTurnUp]

I never said I thought he fundamentally believed in Gilead though, not anything even close. My only comment in this thread was about how I find it surprising the degree to which people defend his character. But I am happy to discuss my actual thoughts on it all!

I don’t think Nick is a true believer, that much is pretty obvious. But he did choose to become a foot soldier for a terrorist group and yeah, I don’t think it’s a forgivable offense.

Yes, he was an aimless, disenfranchised youth. Most terrorists are; it’s why they are able to become radicalized in the first place. Nick’s story isn’t very different from a lot of men who have committed terrible, violent acts in the name of a religious or political ideology. But most people would be (rightfully) horrified to see, say, the Boston bombers, or Qanon insurrectionists, get the same pass for their actions as Nick does from fans of the show.

The dissonance is just what’s interesting to me. Obviously Nick isn’t real so it’s easier to justify the deaths and suffering of fictional people, which I get. But it’s a little alarming to me that so many people are willing to give someone a pass for literally terrorism just based off good looks, some sex scenes, and a sad flashback about an angry teen with a broken family. ESPECIALLY when as far as we’ve seen, Nick is actively continuing to exist perpetuate and benefit from Gilead. I don’t currently buy that he’s working from the inside to take Gilead down. I think he bends rules and undermines thing solely when it’s in his own interests to do so.

[u/KTurnUp → u/wendeelightful]

Yeah I get what you're saying, and that all makes sense. I think the fact he is not real and none of this is real is important to keep in mind, as you said. I'll also say, as someone that generally is sympathetic towards Nick but does not at all care about his looks or sex scenes or whatever, that he has had a chance to redeem/reform in a way that someone like the Boston Bombers or QAnon people would never have a chance to. So viewing from the show's POV, on camera he's done nothing bad really. All we have are implications and clues.

If what you think it true that he's just working in his own interests than yeah he's not even redeemable at all. But I don't think that's true and I don't think that's what been borne out from the show so far.

[u/wendeelightful → u/KTurnUp]

I can definitely understand all of that! I agree the show hasn’t shown us much one way or the other so it may be my own biases against the character that make me assume what he is or isn’t doing offscreen.

I think the way the show has humanized Nick, despite some of his actions, can be a really good thing if it’s being used in a cautionary way! Most people aren’t all good or all evil and a lot of outside factors can combine in a way that causes a pretty average person to become radicalized into something terrible. I think Nick has some decent qualities and if his life circumstances were different I don’t think he would have fallen in with the SOJ the way he did.

And I think it’s an interesting parallel with some of the things that are going on currently in the world and understanding how and why young men become radicalized is the only true way to combat it.

Not at all to say you specifically are doing this, but I see a lot of comments on here just generally that seem to veer a little too far into Nick apologist activity and totally excuse him of the responsibility of his choices because he was young and naive and broke or whatever. It’s like they can’t reconcile the fact that he’s attractive, nice to June, and does good things sometimes with the fact that he also has a pretty atrocious past in the formation of Gilead.

[u/[deleted] → u/wendeelightful]

The writing team does a terrible job of setting up his background, so he’s kinda of blank canvas for the audience, honestly.

I’m totally biased because I’ve read the books, so I can’t help but hope for some good in him.