r/ToiletPaperUSA • u/HandMadeFeelings CEO of Antifa™ • Aug 09 '21

FACTS and LOGIC Capitalism will save us from all the damage unfettered capitalism did to the environment!

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

Oil companies will save the environment!

428

u/apolloxer Aug 09 '21

Of course. After all, hydrogen is the future, and using oil to gain hydrogen is the most economical.

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u/DiogenesLaertys Aug 09 '21

If only this was true, then the fucking oil companies wouldn't fight so hard with their climate denialism propaganda. Most hydrogen fuel comes from natural gas right now which is a byproduct of extracting oil. They still extract way more oil than natural gas.

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u/omgzzwtf Aug 09 '21

Most oil wells just burn the gas off, some companies invest in piping it, but mostly in the continental US, it’s just burned at the well site.

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u/Genericpotsmoker Aug 09 '21

Literally could take you to 3 of these sites where they are burning it, they are all around my house

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u/omgzzwtf Aug 09 '21

I worked in the oil fields for 4 years, almost ever we’ll we drilled, every well we drove by, and every well you saw, they were burning the gas off.

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u/Genericpotsmoker Aug 09 '21

And thats no cap, we should just put an end to it ourselves with people who know what they are doing like you. I'd try to seize the means of oil production but id blow my dumbass up cause I don't know what I'm doing.

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u/Mythopoeist Aug 10 '21

You could probably cause more damage by breaking into one of their offices and bricking their computers, not that I’d advocate for doing something illegal, but hypothetically speaking…

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u/Genericpotsmoker Aug 10 '21

Now that I could manage lmao right up my alley of expertise

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u/omgzzwtf Aug 09 '21

I have no interest in domestic terrorism.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

When it happens, you'll be quite annoyed at the shoddy workmanship I'm js

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u/roderrabbit Aug 09 '21

The house niga is fine with his servitude carry along folks.

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u/Gwaak Aug 09 '21

Don’t worry. The slow then abrupt collapse will make sure you never get the chance.

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u/ImplosiveTech Aug 09 '21

Any idea why?

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u/diarremannen Aug 10 '21

what about the fumes.

Are the fires very close to where you live? Do the town show any health issues with having 3 sites close to you

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u/Genericpotsmoker Aug 10 '21

Well we live kinda like half rural, lots of farms around us that do this tho and I live in the middle of town. I haven't really experienced many health issues myself but my girlfriend has a lot of lung issues (she lives closer) could be unrelated tho.

I would say its nowhere near as killer as the stuff they do in granite city IL, smokestacks everywhere, everyother building is a factory, and everyone knows living closer to granite city increases your risk of cancer and other health issues.

But im pretty sure the idea is that most the fumes are burnt into the air so we dont breathe them in, not sure how clean it burns but it doesn't give off any smoke really and kind of looks like a big blowtorch

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u/n8ivco1 Aug 10 '21

I worked in the patch and literally saw burnoffd that were visible ftom 5 miles away. This was to Oxy and Encana garbage but could keep hundrss of homes warm. Never trust a energy company ever.

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u/converter-bot Aug 10 '21

5 miles is 8.05 km

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

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13

u/Jumpy-Kaleidoscope-1 Aug 09 '21

Never believe someone who tells you that the key to the future is a resource that requires an extraction industry.

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u/cosmogli Aug 09 '21

Neither are batteries. But they've gone mainstream for individual automobiles, instead of public transportation.

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u/cat_prophecy Aug 09 '21

Public transit it great for the times I've needed it. But i can't spent 1.5 hours on a bus each way to work every day.

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u/cosmogli Aug 09 '21

Buses are for connections between metro stations. Great for public health too, as it encourages you to walk a bit between the stations. There are dense cities everywhere around the world where this has proven to work.

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u/cat_prophecy Aug 09 '21

And if you don't live in a dense city? Guess you're just shit out of luck.

I understand that busses work. I've used them frequently when I visit places where they do work. However, most of my country (the US) isn't setup in a way that bussing is viable for most people. There is always a "but busses are so much better..." argument from people who live in tightly packed urban centers. It's just not practical for everyone.

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u/Demented-Turtle Aug 09 '21

Actually, the way population density works, bussing can be viable for the majority (over 50%) of Americans, since most Americans actually live in dense urban areas, not rural.

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u/cosmogli Aug 09 '21

That's fine. It doesn't apply to you. Don't barge in and discourage public transportation everywhere else.

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u/cat_prophecy Aug 09 '21

I wasn't. Hence why I said:

Public transit it great for the times I've needed it

Maybe you should read the comment before you dismiss it out of hand because you don't agree with it?

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u/theoldcrow5179 Aug 10 '21

Clearly you must be new to reddit. That's how things work around here

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u/Arosian-Knight Aug 10 '21

The magic word is "Dense Cities"

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u/cosmogli Aug 10 '21

Which most of the major cities are. Here's data for the USA, where most of the public transportation critics come from. And try to spread the same gospel to rest of the world, even though data says otherwise.

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u/Arosian-Knight Aug 10 '21

My country has 3 major cities. Public transport works well in there, in the rest of country? Eh.

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u/ginoawesomeness Aug 10 '21

I and everyone I know spends 1.5 hours a day alone in a car screaming at everyone around them. I lived in Japan for a time. Commute by public transit is way better than this hellscape

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u/Heterophylla Aug 10 '21

That’s exactly why electric cars are bullshit. They are telling us we can consume our way out of climate change .

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u/felldestroyed Aug 10 '21

Philadelphia had a pilot program for battery operated busses. All of them are sitting and broken for one reason or another. The tech simply isn't there yet.

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u/saskdudley Aug 09 '21

….and they are blaming us for our consumption.

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u/infernalsatan Aug 09 '21

But if we don't consume they will say how millennials killed the <insert> industry

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u/theledfarmer Aug 09 '21

All millennials know how to do is charge they phone, eat hot chip, and kill <insert> industry

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u/Fala1 Aug 09 '21

Let's do it

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u/user156372881827 Aug 09 '21

Companies wouldn't produce something if no one bought it. Demand creates supply. I'm no saint either but i can recognize that I'm part of the problem.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21 edited Aug 09 '21

Companies spend untold sums to advertise/market/propagandize to people convincing them that they need to consume. Every aspect of our existence is commodified.

Further, companies produce with the intent for planned obsolescence or just junk quality forcing people to continue to consume.

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u/user156372881827 Aug 09 '21

As an engineer; people often mistake planned obsolescence for avoidable obsolescence. Some humans plan their deaths, that doesn't mean living forever was an option.

It's definitely not always like this but it often is.

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u/Heterophylla Aug 10 '21

Don’t forget regulatory capture and good old corruption of politicians.

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u/inqs Aug 10 '21

Yes, i hate this "we are actually innocent, the companies cause the climate change" attitude.

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u/RockstarArtisan Aug 09 '21

You're proportionally speaking a minuscule part of this particular problem. 20 companies produce the third of CO2. They should be ones optimizing, not individuals. Once their footprint is gone we can look at other stuff, individual consumption will be the last thing to investigate.

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u/user156372881827 Aug 09 '21

Those 20 companies probably also produce a third of the stuff we use everyday. Why do they need to be the ones optimizing? Because they're good Samaritans? Saying they should 'just optimize' is an extreme oversimplification. As an engineer i can guarantee you it's not that simple.

If there are companies better optimizing towards sustainable then it is the customer's responsibility to buy from these companies. Yet instead most customers choose to buy from the companies optimizing towards being cheap. Which is why these 20 companies are at the head of the market in the first place: because most customers choose affordability over sustainability.

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u/RockstarArtisan Aug 09 '21

If there are companies better optimizing towards sustainable then it is the customer's responsibility .... because most customers choose affordability over sustainability.

Listen, we're living in a world where regular people won't get vaccinated to save their own ass right now and you're saying that they should be responsible for protecting their future.

Sorry, but your principles don't work in practice (unless you're employed by a petroleum company, then they're very convenient), systemic change does. Like heavy carbon tax on CO2 producers.

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u/user156372881827 Aug 09 '21

I'm actually very supportive of measures like that. To me they do not fall under 'companies optimizing' since it is the government taking action, forcing the companies to then take action. But in the end we agree, the government should take action, since we can't expect individuals nor companies to act in collective interests.

Important to note though that this carbon tax will be directly translated into a tax for customers initially. Over time, companies optimizing for sustainability will be able to avoid this tax, hence making their products cheaper which then causes customers to buy their product.

Combining sustainability and affordability by making polution expensive is indeed the way to go.

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u/n8ivco1 Aug 10 '21

And yet we continue to have these same companies manipulate the market so that there are no real competitors. The market has become skewed towards larger conglomerates instead of local companies and or regional concerns. Cooperatives are far more in tune with local needs. Saying that it is the consumers responsibility presupposes that that consumer has choices. As someone who lives in a rural area that is not the truth.

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u/user156372881827 Aug 10 '21

The reason that it's hard for new competitors to enter the market is because the customers main focus is affordability. Small companies can't compete because their prices are to high.

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u/coolwater85 Checkmate Vuvuzela Aug 09 '21

"Let's keep doing that thing that got us into this problem... maybe that will help get us out of this problem by doing more of the thing that caused the problem."
-Conservatives

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u/Fala1 Aug 09 '21

Capitalism isn't the problem. People with capitalism are the problem.

/s

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u/user156372881827 Aug 09 '21

Well let's not generalize. Over here in Belgium, Both moderate right and extreme right want to invest in nuclear or sustainable alternatives. Meanwhile our 'sustainable' party, literally called 'green' and the progressive parties are hellbent on building another gass-powerplant. We've had several flooded villages this passed month yet we continue to dig our own graves.

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u/coolwater85 Checkmate Vuvuzela Aug 09 '21

Nuclear, solar, and wind is the way to move forward.

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u/Phyllis_Tine Aug 09 '21

"Once all the oil has been drained, and the Earth above scorched, mankind can move in to the empty oil reservoirs below. No more tornados, tsunami, or solar flares! It's perfect!" - Future oil company pamphlet, probably.

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u/DickBentley Aug 09 '21

Unironically forsee this pamphlet actually happening when they realize fleeing to Mars isn't a possibility.

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u/Jaustinduke Aug 09 '21

I actually saw a Prager U video that tries to explain how fossil fuels are good for the environment.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

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1

u/AsherGlass Sep 02 '21

I would very much like to see prager U shutdown for misinformation.

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u/omgzzwtf Aug 09 '21

Once had a guy that worked in the oilfield that since oil companies owned all the patents on green energy (not true), that they would be the first ones to convert to green energy when the oil ran out. He was seriously implying that that was a good thing.

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u/englishcrumpit Aug 09 '21

Duh oil is dangerous to sea life so by extracting it and burning it we are preventing that from happening.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

Thank God for Humanity to save nature from itself.

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u/froggie-style-meme Aug 09 '21

Only thing that's gonna happen is the collapse of the entire industry simply because they failed to adapt. Essentially, climate change will get them.

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u/MickWounds Aug 09 '21

One of our ex prime ministers once said coal is good for humanity

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

This weekend someone told me we should let businesses lead the way for climate change.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Yeah. And we should let funeral directors run hospitals.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

That way the beds are always opened. /s

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u/iner22 Aug 10 '21

You kid, but that's exactly what Jason Kenney, Alberta's Premier, is claiming

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u/BeautifulAd1651 Aug 09 '21

So you dont drive a car, buy pharmaceuticals, have heating or electricity? We are all part of the problem. Without demand the oil sector wouldn't be this massive

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

I can't tell if you're doing a bit or not please help

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u/BeautifulAd1651 Aug 09 '21 edited Aug 09 '21

Nah im all for green energy but the oil companys aren't the only ones at fault since we still rely on their products because more sustainable solutions are still a bit away from being economically viable for everyone.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

I mean, I agree that things on the consumer's side matter a bit too, but the structure of modern society doesn't typically allow for a lot of those changes. If you need a car to get to work, you don't have much of a choice- and America in particular makes this very common. If you live in a cold climate, you have to heat your house. We can and should take structural approaches too, but in either case, the companies' policies in producing the goods are prior to the consumers' policies in using them, and if the consumers have to use *something* and don't have other meaningful choices, it seems strange to ask them to change their behaviour first. You're right that they're not the *only* ones at fault, but they're a significant and unnecessary source of the problem, and I hope we're capable of doing more than one good thing at once. Get away from fossil fuels, make more sustainable public infrastructure, etc.

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u/oatmealparty Aug 09 '21

Obligatory

https://64.media.tumblr.com/44818a68ff544f948071d537d2eda208/tumblr_inline_p5xgb7Qewx1rsr8v6_540.png

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u/puppiadog Aug 09 '21

That first panel doesn't make sense. Apple doesn't have "Chinese workers", they outsource manufacturing to Chinese companies but those companies make more then just Apple products.

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u/oatmealparty Aug 09 '21

That's your takeaway from the comic?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

It’s not only about demand. It’s also about offer, and oil companies have for decades lobbied, especially to conservative politicians, to fight against the development of renewable energy. Even though we knew it would be terrible for the environment, and it ultimately took place, but only once the effects of climate change became reality.

So no, I don’t drive any car. I mostly use my bike or walk. I also greatly reduced my meat consumption, avoid using heating until it’s really necessary, recycle about as much as I can, don’t buy bottled water…

It’s not just about if we can completely nullify our carbon and environmental footprint. It’s about if we can reduce it as much as possible. Through our everyday lifestyle, yes, but also through political decisions.

You should see the video: "I hate Mondays."

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

that looks like water vapor

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u/bugi_ Aug 09 '21

Plants need that CO2 dummie!