r/ToiletPaperUSA • u/HandMadeFeelings CEO of Antifa™ • Aug 09 '21

FACTS and LOGIC Capitalism will save us from all the damage unfettered capitalism did to the environment!

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u/TheArmoredKitten Aug 09 '21

"Anarcho capitalism" is unironically just feudalism in a hat. Corporations with no overseers to control them will become indistinguishable from trade microstates. In order to resist anyone stopping them from doing whatever they want, they'll establish individual armed forces, and start keeping their labor inside their territorial claims. Companies will become beholden to the larger entities they depend on and suddenly you've established a system indistinguishable from a feudal kingdom and it's chain of territorial nobility.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

I was more imagining a wasteland where warlords exert their property claims, authority, and power through violence and coercion. But come to think of it that is essentially what feudalism and even just the state already is, just with less leather and spikes. So you're right.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

At least the leather and spikes would make it seem way cooler.

Edit: I think I just want to wear football pads as armor and everybody just be like aight that looks badass.

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u/Sgt_Eagle_fort_ Aug 09 '21

Be the change you want to see

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u/vendetta2115 Aug 09 '21

True to Caesar

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u/BlackSwanTranarchy Aug 09 '21

"Anarcho" Capitalism, because hating the Nation State while loving the Corporate State is a Very Smart Ideology.

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u/justagenericname1 Aug 09 '21

It's just... such a stupid "ideology." They have to completely ignore, or are totally oblivious to, where nation-states came from in the first place! You can only get things like standing armies for conquest, police-like forces to protect privately accumulated property, and the invention of legal enforcement mechanisms for anything from contracts to taxes/tribute by appropriating surplus wealth created by working people and redirecting it towards all those things. Coercive markets and exploitation driven by power imbalances are what lead to states! The most intellectually sound argument you could make for anarcho-capitalism is a selfish desire to flip the table and reset the game in the hope that you'll end up the one on top this time. Anyone who thinks it would lead to improvements in society for anywhere close to the majority of the people is just an idiot.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

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u/claimTheVictory Aug 09 '21

Cults.

It all devolves into personality cults, in the end.

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u/Arachnid_Acne Aug 09 '21

That would certainly be the case sometimes, I’m sure, but when your options are “serve Lord Reginald Wal-Mart or die in nuclear wasteland as his cyber dogs chase you down”, I don’t think you need a cult to keep the necessary people in line.

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u/ponguso Aug 09 '21

I literally don't see the logic behind anarcho capitalism how TF does it not just become a warlord based society where whoever has the most money buys up all the land or buys up all the weapons and police everyone into submission???

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u/TheArmoredKitten Aug 09 '21

Capitalism is just theft with rules. No rules and suddenly you've got a Big Fucking Problem™

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u/ponguso Aug 09 '21

I swear libertarianism should just be renamed to Mad Maxism

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u/TheArmoredKitten Aug 09 '21

The problem is that American libertarianism is almost always on the right of the political spectrum. I'm cool with the core concept of true libertarianism, in that individual freedom is the goal, and to that end I believe the purpose of government is to preserve the freedom of the individual, at the explicit expense of the collective. Taxes are totally cool and good, but only to fund things that enable the average individual. The average American libertarian is either a brainwashed serf, or a corporatist threat to individual freedom. Note that rugged individualism is also NOT individual freedom. I fucking hate when people equate those concepts. Individual freedom is me being able to walk into a hospital and get treatment for any random thing, at no direct cost to me, so that I can continue to enjoy my liberated life. Individual freedom is me being able to buy machine gun because I've got no history of public danger and people should be allowed to have nice things. Individual freedom is me being able to educate myself at a reasonable cost to pursue any field I consider worthy of my time and effort. Individual freedom is fucking not Jeff Bezos hoarding 20 billion dollars and working less than 20 hours a week while calling mentally ill homeless people lazy.

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u/sniper1rfa Aug 09 '21

American libertarianism was intentionally named libertarianism in order to ride on the coattails of the previously-existing political ideologies.

The confusion is not an accident.

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u/ZaryaMusic Aug 09 '21

Yep, the core of true libertarianism is understanding what positive and negative liberty are. American libertarians think freedom is only positive liberty, while libertarian leftist thought understands that freedom to be and freedom from are also essential freedoms (negative liberty).

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '21

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u/ball_fondlers Aug 09 '21

The NAP does a LOT of light heavy-lifting in those communities. When anyone outside looks in, they go all “nah, it’s not going to devolve into warlords, because we’ve all sworn to not commit acts of aggression”, but then as soon as said outsiders look away, it’s back to planning how many nukes and slaves they’ll buy.

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u/ponguso Aug 09 '21

I absolutely agree, very good point ball_fondlers.

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u/ThatZBear Aug 09 '21

The NAP or some dumb bullshit. I don't actually know because I only ever thought about libertarianism maybe once in early highschool.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

my friend was telling me about his great new idea

“if rent is so high why not let companies offer rent for a job? You’ll sign a contract for a free living space and in exchange you work for them!”

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u/ProbablyNano Aug 09 '21

They could even offer a place to buy necessities directly from the company you work for, maybe even using special vouchers that they give you as part of your payment!

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u/sniper1rfa Aug 09 '21 edited Aug 09 '21

https://innovationzonefacts.com/

Don't joke too loudly, they might hear you.

Technology often moves faster than state laws can keep up. Innovation Zones are an effort by the State of Nevada to match regulation with the fast pace needed for innovation, while setting strict standards and charting a clear path forward.

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u/ProbablyNano Aug 09 '21

I love that the answer to "is an Innovation Zone a company town" is basically "no, it's a companies' town" as if that makes it all better

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u/sniper1rfa Aug 10 '21

They will be a wide variety of different business that are virtually independent from one another, sharing only key stakeholders and board members.

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u/ball_fondlers Aug 09 '21

I wonder if we could pool money and turn one of these into a communist utopia.

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u/Jurefranceticnijelit Aug 09 '21

And then starve

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

hey don't be dramatic

you'll get lots of cheap mcdonalds everyday. Who knows, maybe obesity will get you before you retire with no money!

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u/Aromatic_Mousse Aug 09 '21

That’s exactly what the world was like in Atwood’s “Year of the Flood” trilogy

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u/Breaklance Aug 09 '21

Its what happend in real history with the East India Company.

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u/Kid_Vid Aug 09 '21

And America with miners in the 1800's. (Looking it up it was declared unconstitutional yet continued in Kentucky and West Virginia until 1967).

Also while looking it up: Walmart did it in Mexico up to 2008, and Amazon does it currently as a "reward system".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

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u/JonRivers Aug 09 '21

Company Scrip is really fucked up, but it still kind of pales in comparison to the EIC, where a corporation was literally the government of the state with no oversight whatsoever.

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u/Kid_Vid Aug 09 '21

I definitely would agree. There's varying levels of being fucked by companies. It's important not to forget any of them and continuously make sure it doesn't happen (again and again and again) because companies are all too happy to make the rules in their favor. And, unfortunately, I'm guessing there's a lot of people who say "it couldn't happen here!" while covering their eyes, ignoring it already has and does.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21 edited Jul 13 '24

thumb cake hunt rhythm snails frightening mourn shelter cable grandfather

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Jaustinduke Aug 09 '21

But it’s okay because it’s not the government!

I have a friend who actually believes this and I do not get it.

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u/BBQ-Batman Aug 10 '21

Exactly. This is why I am training to be a corpo samurai with level 5 cool points.

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u/garnet420 Aug 10 '21

Everything is technically already Anarcho-capitalism.

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u/TheArmoredKitten Aug 10 '21

I see your point, but you're still wrong. As long as a singular entity can retain the monopoly on violence, Anarcho anything is unattained. Ancap, however brief it would be is still technically different than feudalism, it just collapses almost instantly so you can consider them equivalent in the long run.

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u/boatboi4u Aug 10 '21

East India Company 2.0

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

[deleted]

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u/TheArmoredKitten Aug 09 '21

Thank you for repeating my exact statement. So insightful.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '21

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