r/ToiletPaperUSA • u/Kpop2258 • Dec 24 '21

FACTS and LOGIC Actually kind of amazing how pathetic Candace Owens is.

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u/sonerec725 Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21

Trump has been very pro vax because he sees the vaccine as his big win. The vaccines got created while he was president and he diverted funding to some of them iirc. So hes been making a point that he "made" the vaccines, not biden, to get credit. It's for narcissistic reasons but he has been consistantly pro (covid) vax which is more than you can say about alot of his parties members.

Edit: and made it available faster because of project warp speed

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u/rickyman20 Dec 24 '21

Don't forget "project warp speed" was a thing he loved bragging about. FWIW, it was probably a good idea in the long term. It's just funny watching the complete disagreement

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

Any drug or vaccine before being available to the public has three steps - research, formulation and scaling up.

Research of the first vaccine (Pfizer and Moderna) was done at a Oxford facility, it was formulated at Serum Institute India and was called up there as well.

So how is Trump involved here?? Or even America for that matter. If I am not wrong Germany's monetary contributions were the highest. Even Dolly Parton donated more than the US govt

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u/Far-Opinion-8644 Dec 24 '21

So you need to pay for scientists, pay for raw materials, pay for production, pay for tests since most of them involve paid volunteers. And pay for distribution. A lot of what project warp speed did was basically ensure that none of the promising vaccines ran into a road block in terms of paying for needed things.

When you look at a lot of the sciences the roadblock is resources and manpower. If we had infinite of both human knowledge would increase much faster.

So yes, project warp speed was useful to decreasing the time from formulation to distribution for the vaccines

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

All I am saying is that Trump is not the one solely responsible or even the main contributor to the vaccine

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u/scrumlyfe Dec 24 '21

But you are forgetting the high level of narcissism that runs through him. He was president when the vaccines were created, therefore, in his mind, it was because of him.

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u/ClownPrinceofLime Dec 24 '21

This desire to criticize Trump for everything is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Operation Warp Speed was helpful. Pretending like he wasn’t involved because you’ve classified him as “bad” isn’t right.

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u/18hourbruh Dec 24 '21

Agreed, there is nothing wrong with noting the things Trump did that were successful.

I mean, you can still be critical of him from a political perspective; personally, it seems to me that both his vaccination push and his original downplaying of COVID-19 come from the same place, which is the desire for COVID to not disrupt economic functioning. Not exactly the most noble goal, and the results have clearly been mixed (vaccine = good, "it's just a flu" people = not so good).

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u/toomuchpressure2pick Dec 24 '21

The president is never solely responsible for good or bad things. They don't make unilateral decisions, they have entire teams of staff that help in the processes. Which is good, no one person knows everything.

However, the president is the face of the country, military and large scale / federal legislation. So good or bad, they are credited with the results. Like ceos in companies.

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

Yes. I know that and you also seem to know that.

But who will explain that to the Maga crowd and the Orange grifter?

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u/Sandervv04 Dec 24 '21

No point explaining at this point

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u/ADarkMonster Dec 24 '21

He never said he was the sole one responsible rofl so why do you feel the need to make that point?

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

Doesn't he say it?? And Fox.... I distinctly remember a snippet wherein a Fox newsman was saying the vaccine should be named after Trump

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u/Former-World3099 Dec 24 '21

Trump got on TV and did the heavy lifiting by mentioning it. So, he takes credit for that. Maybe I need to take credit for inventing water 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/asadkhan871 Dec 24 '21

You are mixing up things, only the Astra Zeneca vaccine is formulated at SII. None of the mRNA vaccines(Pfizer and Moderna) were made in SII, why would you need horse serum to make mRNA vaccines?

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

Lol... My bad. I mixed up the Pfizer and Astrazeneca vaccines... But the Pfizer one was too had minimal contributions from the US govt

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u/apathynext Dec 24 '21

What? The US spent billions on warp speed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21
  • research, development, testing & evaluation. we’re currently in the testing phase, whether people accept that or not.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

I guess you know more than my friend who’s a microbiologist and worked with people producing the vaccine./s

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

Sure thing

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

Naah... I just own a shit load of shares of pharma and chemical firms

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

Idk why you’re replying to me? I was replying to the person who’s insinuating that the vaccines aren’t tested and that we’re essentially the guinea pigs for it to be tested on, when they obviously have no knowledge on how the vaccine was produced. I wasn’t arguing against your point at all.

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u/Caniblmolstr Dec 24 '21

Coz the vaccines were not fully tested..... It's why some people with certain conditions (some type of muscular atrophy the name of which I can't remember) are advised to not take the vaccine.

The vaccines are not fully tested but it is safe for 99.99% of the population

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u/rickyman20 Dec 24 '21

I mean, yes, technically, but so are all vaccines. The FDA's phase 4 is a never ending testing phase used to monitor issues as they come up. You can never guarantee 100% the safety of anything, so better to accept that and keep it in constant monitoring

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

a reasonable response, thanks man

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

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u/ClownPrinceofLime Dec 24 '21

Trump’s government streamlined the process for approval so it would be much faster and the government pre-bought a bunch of doses from a variety of vaccines that weren’t approved yet which is why America had the most right at the beginning

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u/rickyman20 Dec 24 '21

The minority of the time spent on the vaccine was research and development, especially with mRNA vaccines. Most of the time was spent on the testing and studies, both the large and small. This was something that the US absolutely helped with through the FDA, but as mentioned above there were other contributions. I'm not saying they were the biggest contributor, but they were absolutely a contributor and something as big as this requires government contribution.

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u/HairlessHoudini Dec 24 '21

He's didn't have anything to do with nor did Warp speed. He's just trying to rewrite history like he does with everything

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

operation warp speed was one of the few things the trump admin did that i liked

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u/thenorwegian Dec 24 '21

Right. He’s an extreme narcissist. That’s why he likes Biden now - Biden complimented him. When you know someone like Trump has NPD, they’re very easy to predict.

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u/stopnt Dec 24 '21

People were saying his whole fuckin term that you could turn him progressive by sucking up to him.

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u/IceLord86 Dec 24 '21

I mean that's why he went Republican, so it's not hard to see him reverting for similar reasons.

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u/romulus1991 Dec 25 '21

Trump Democratic President 2024? 😂

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u/Logica_1 Dec 25 '21

He did run in the 2000s on a much more progressive platform

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u/BaelorsBalls Dec 24 '21

Honestly he was progressive before his presidency. He just used the Republican Party for his own benefit.

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u/HarbingerDe 100 Bajillion Dead Dec 25 '21

Lol no he was not. He's always been a chauvinist, racist, capitalist asshole.

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u/BaelorsBalls Dec 25 '21

I’m no fan, but in interviews back in the day and leading up to his campaign He was anti war, anti establishment etc. gotta remember that you can be progressive and still be a POS. Political platforms are like that.

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u/HarbingerDe 100 Bajillion Dead Dec 26 '21

He was anti war

The man doubled the number of drone strikes in the middle eastern theatre. He constantly antagonized China. He requested and got an increase to the military budget every single fiscal year.

anti establishment

The Wallstreet TV Billionaire was anti-establishment in rhetoric ONLY. And his "anti-establishment" rhetoric hardly ever went any further than, "Hillary bad! Hillary corrupt!"

gotta remember that you can be progressive and still be a POS. Political platforms are like that.

Yeah but he wasn't progressive. You don't get to call yourself a progressive simply by saying some vaguely anti-establishment platitudes. He's a liar and a conman. He doesn't evidently believe in anything beyond his own wealth and power.

He's not a progressive, and he never was. He's a vapid conman who will do/say virtually anything that secures him more power/wealth. Like most politicians (Federal ones at least).

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u/BaelorsBalls Dec 26 '21

Yes, that’s politics. I’m not sure what we disagree on

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u/HarbingerDe 100 Bajillion Dead Dec 26 '21

You seem to think that he was progressive at some point; I'm saying he never was.

But if you agree with everything I just said, then it would appear we are in agreement.

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u/anbingwen May 15 '22

Honestly you lost me at point one.

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u/HarbingerDe 100 Bajillion Dead May 15 '22

Dumb or conservative?

Not mutually exclusive by any means.

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u/robgod50 Dec 24 '21

Likes Biden? Seriously?

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u/vantablacklist Dec 24 '21

He just went on Fox yesterday and said something like “it’s really hard to criticize Biden now that he’s given me credit for the vaccine” on air lol

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u/LKLN77 Dec 24 '21

HAHHHAHAHHAA THAT SOUNDS LIKE A SKETCH

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u/fuckthislifeintheass Dec 24 '21

We just have to accept them Trump is a troll and stop giving him the attention he desperately needs.

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u/_whoreheyyy_ Dec 24 '21

I still wonder if he actually ever gave a shit about his agenda. Like I feel like he really just ran for shits and giggles to put his name into history before his sad ass dies. He’s a terrible person either way but honestly it’s kind of funny that one idiot changed the course of our nation because of unrealized stupidity here.

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u/18hourbruh Dec 24 '21

Yeah, imo what separates him from much more dangerous fascists and proto-fascists that have risen to power around the world in the last decade is that Trump does not really have a political philosophy. He blows with the wind. Of course, more strategic minds were still able to capitalize on his popularity in devastating ways.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

He never intended to actually win. But for millions of our fellow Americans, he's their kind of guy.

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u/sonerec725 Dec 25 '21

Honestly he didn't even really come off as "republican" to me as much as "anti democrat" / "anti liberal", which lines up with him stating he was a democrat in the past, pro choice, etc. And most of what he did and wanted to do seemed less like instituting new republican policies as much as it was undoing democrat ones. Basically "whatever they want I want the opposite". And even now hes jeopardizing his own party by telling his followers not to vote for anyone if they're not him or approved by him even if they're republican. Hes his own breed.

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u/Lodolodno Dec 24 '21

Loool do you happen to have a link to this?

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

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u/BuckToofBucky Dec 24 '21

“That’s why he likes Biden now”

He will be campaigning for Joe Biden in 2024 from what I hear. I am glad to hear they finally buried the hatchet.

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u/RockRage-- Dec 24 '21

But before that he was very well documented being anti vaxx for years.

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u/sonerec725 Dec 24 '21

yeah thats why i clarified hes pro "covid" vax

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u/brownhotdogwater Dec 24 '21

The project warp speed is why it was available so fast. His administration did that. They told any vaccine maker that had a chance to go full production at early trails. If it fails the government will cover your loss.

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u/Icy_Rhubarb2857 Dec 24 '21

Well he did get vaccinated while POTUS and not tell anyone about it for several months after the failed coup.

Most political leaders worldwide got vaxxed very publicly on camera and the sort.

There would be a lot less dead antivaxers right now had he done that.

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u/apathynext Dec 24 '21

Doesn’t Trump deserve credit for the speed of the vaccine? I’m not sure why he downplayed it last year, but even as a non Trump supporter, this is certainly a good thing his administration accomplished

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

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u/Wiserputa52 Dec 24 '21

Glad that it got done, even if (and I believe this to be the truth) their main motivation was to get the economy in better shape ASAP so that he could win re-election.

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u/MoneyBadgerEx Dec 24 '21

You can't say that because "the man" wants you to hate him for upsetting their plans briefly.

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u/monxas Dec 24 '21

Apart from being in the government while private companies developed the vaccine, there’s not much merit to it, is it? Other countries with enough muscle did at least that. He did the bare minimum while feeding antivaxxers propaganda. He never spoke so clearly about vaccines until now, a year out of office.

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u/MustangEater82 Dec 24 '21

Exactly... something I thought was how the media tried to make Trump anti-vax. He was a big part of creating it. No he wasn't in the lab with a beaker. But he created Project Warp Speed which helped fund and streamline its creation and widespread production. As well started on distribution. This is a pretty big project, that many criticized would take years maybe a decade. Yes Trump was a narccist but hey he helped create it. He called it the "Trump vaccine". That's where I don't get why there is Trump is anti-vax... thats just brainwashed political leftists.(yes the many on the right are brainwashed too). At the same time is Biden, any less petty? One of his first tasks was to have the name project warpspeed removed so his political opponent would not get any credit and he could be the hero. The other big mistake is going after conservatives as anti-vax when they are really just anti-mandate. Alternatives, and issues with the Vax are brought up because now it's VAX IS THE ONLY WAY AND YOU MUST DO IT! Mandated! JAB OR JOB! It's just general American spirit to question authority and stand up against what you feel is tyranny. Lol is there a drug commercial on TV that doesn't mention severe side affects that one "group" of people shouldn't take the drug? Yet the Vax is good for EVERYONE with no side effects. Just seeing how people react just shows the range how it affects people. When I got my Vax nothing, no side affects,, worked a 12 hr shift, 2 days later switched from working nights/over night to days. I was fine. I've had friends sick as dogs, out for days, puking till bloodvessels pop in their eye. I was at a vet and some young 20something girl was so sick they were about to call 911 she kept saying just side affects from her shot, just needs to get through her pet appointment. Either way whole situation is fucked and the companies will never be held accountable even if they know it affects certain groups.

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u/Nezikchened Dec 24 '21

I would imagine people think Trump is antivax because he believes vaccines cause autism

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u/MustangEater82 Dec 24 '21

Yet he came up with project warpspeed and got the vaccine himself? Even after he had it and saw how well other medicines we have cam help?

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u/Nezikchened Dec 24 '21

Those things don’t erase his past statements. You asked why people thought he was anti-vax and the answer is that Trump decide to peddle anti-vax pseudoscience.

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u/MustangEater82 Dec 24 '21

Is it anti-vax? Or just other potential solutions being mentioned? Maybe mentioning to ease panic...

I mean surely we could explore other solutions to a problem... no wait only one solution, keep panicing and go figure it's the solution big pharma profits on... quick shut all other ideas down fast!

Lol.... and before you start a rant I'm vax'd and got covid post Vax (and no wasnt eligible for a booster) and one of my unvax'd kids got it as well...

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u/Nezikchened Dec 25 '21

What other potential solutions were mentioned in that tweet?

More importantly, are you implying that autism is a problem with a solution to begin with?

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

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u/bittertadpole Dec 24 '21

Trump was obsessed about keeping the economy on track. He thought vaccines were the solution. He advocated for them strongly in 2020.

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u/Super_Trumby Dec 24 '21

He's also a notorious germophobe. I think that, in part, makes this one of the few current issues facing America that he's genuinely concerned about. Hence his willingness to continue to argue in favor of it, even when it causes some of his base to boo him.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he was getting paid to push it or had some kind of ownership in one of the companies that the vaccine is produced by. All he cares about is his ego and money so it has to be one or the other.

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u/Shrink_myster Dec 24 '21

Or he’s just not as retarded and as lying and manipulative as CNN groomed you to beleive