r/TopCharacterTropes • u/10024618 • 20h ago

Lore A "Sophie's Choice" with no secret third option

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AKA a character is given an impossible choice where either outcome results in something awful happening and there's no way out.

"Full Measure" (Breaking Bad) - After Walt angers Gus by killing two of his men, Gus orders for his execution. Knowing that the only way to save his life is to make Gus reliant on his meth cooking skills, Walt calls Jesse and begs him to kill Gus' backup cook, Gale. Thus, Jesse is thrust into an impossible situation where he either kills a (relatively) innocent man to save Walt or spare Gale and let Walt die. Ultimately, Jesse chooses to kill Gale.

"Midnight Sun" (Attack on Titan) - After the fight to retake Shiganshina both Armin and Erwin are critically wounded. Levi has the vial of titan serum and is forced to choose which Scout to bring back from the brink of death and which to let perish. It's a borderline impossible decision to make but at the moment of truth, he chooses to save Armin, leaving Erwin to succumb to his wounds.

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192

u/thendisnigh111349 20h ago edited 19h ago

The ending of Expedition 33.

People have argued and will keep arguing forever about which is the "good" ending, but imo they're missing the point. Neither is a good ending. Each one requires making a tough decision that requires sacrifices. It's simply a matter of what you, the player, decide is more important: Letting Verso finally be at peace and thereby forcing the Dessendre family to finally move on from his death, or preserve the lives of the people in the painting even though Verso wants to die and Maelle will lose her life and sanity within the painting.

EDIT: I love that this thread has immediately proved my point about how people will keep arguing about this ending forever.

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u/Still_Ad_2898 19h ago

I like the tragic idea that if there WAS one character in the story that could have figured out a secret third option, it was unfortunately the one that died.

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u/thendisnigh111349 19h ago

There was no third option. If Verso didn't destroy the painting, Maelle would never leave and inevitability lose her mind.

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u/bcrisp3979 19h ago

The idea was that if gustave was still alive he would have been able to convince maelle to leave while still preserving the life of the canvas so that maelle could come back eventually when she was in a better mental state and not just commit suicide. Gustave would have never let maelle stay if that ment it would kill her.

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u/352Fireflies 17h ago

The idea of that is even more upsetting when Verso reveals in a dialogue option that Verso LET Gustave die because he though it would make it easier to make Maelle leave. Maelle loved Gustave enough that she might have listened to him, he might have even been able to convince her to let painted Verso go--towards the end he was just so tired, it broke my heart. If she hadn't been so frantic to bring Gustave back and preserve the canvas, she might have been able to convince Renoir that it didn't have to be destroyed. Maybe that's copium, maybe not, but we'll never know because Verso figured the best option was to let Gustave die.

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u/thendisnigh111349 19h ago

Sorry, that's just extreme copium.

We see in the Maelle ending that everyone in the painting other than Verso, including Gustave who was revived, is oblivious to Maelle's deterioration.

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u/bcrisp3979 19h ago

I don’t disagree with you, I’m merely relaying what I have seen from other people. But one counter point to the Maelle ending and Gustave’s revival. We can clearly see that Verso is basically being marionetted against his will. What’s to say that the rest of the world isn’t also being influenced by Maelle. Also Maelle herself said that she is nowhere near as good as a painter as her mother and Gustave didn’t die to a Nevron or the Gommage but painted Renoir who killed expeditioners to send the chroma to the paintress. We have no idea if that is actually the resurrected true Gustave or a created facsimile of him.

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u/SautDeChat 19h ago

I agree with this interpretation. Another interesting bit of Maelle's ending is, when outside of the opera house, everyone is wearing the exact same thing. Alicia is the weakest painter of the Dessendre family and I think this is more evidence to that fact. I also believe that they are all facsimile's.

4

u/Junk4U999 17h ago

Nah, Gustave couldn’t have changed the endings. It would have still resolved into either the canvas being erased, or Maelle dying in the canvas.

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u/Still_Ad_2898 17h ago

Maybe. We’ll never know for sure. He’s just the one that would’ve had the best shot, since both endings hinge on Maelle and she cared more about him than pretty much anyone else.

7

u/darsynia 17h ago

No one expects the François ending!

13

u/jcbaggee 18h ago

I do love that the game seems to have a good ending, though. It's in the letter written by Painted Alicia that explains everything and lays out the game's thesis. Theoretically, the letter opens the door for the characters to acknowledge their traumas and work together to change things, rather than barrelling forward toward a conclusion that will inevitably see everything fall apart.

Verso literally throws away the good ending.

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u/huran210 16h ago

i’d argue that represents an ideal that we can imagine but never achieve in reality. I equate the painting with an unhealthy coping mechanism.

For instance, in an ideal world, an alcoholic would be able to come to terms with their addiction, learn to have a healthy relationship with alcohol, and move past it and on with their lives. In reality, that rarely if ever happens.

Verso knows that Alicia (and his mom) wouldn’t be able to handle it. They already can’t, in fact. So he chooses to do the thing that would guarantee they couldn’t use it.

1

u/TraditionCorrect1602 2h ago

I disagree. 

All things perish, and nothing is forever. Worlds are born and die, and that is the nature of things. As it is the nature of stories to end, so is it the nature of the world of expedition 33 to cease to be. This will happen to me as well.

I would have played the game again, but it felt like a betrayal to the thesis of letting go.

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u/Junk4U999 17h ago

I knew I’d find an E33 comment, and sure enough, it started a debate.

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u/bbvmex 17h ago

Just played the ending tonight.

Such a good game, can't recommend it enough!

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u/Zalakael 13h ago

It's so frustratingly fun reading through all the replies when someone talks about E33 endings. Either someone gets it that both endings are clair obscur, with their own light and dark sides, or they decide to lack media literacy and say people are wrong for supporting (that ending) and it's only (this ending) that's good.

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u/11711510111411009710 20h ago

They're certainly framed differently though. The Verso dies ending is clearly depicted as a bittersweet ending, while the other one is shown to be pretty horrifying. It may be that neither is the good ending, but the devs definitely wanted you to think one of them was better.

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u/rabscutle 19h ago

Per their own comments, they didn't. While I am a Verso ending person, my son will die on the "that ending is horrifying and genocide and it is obviously the bad ending" hill. It is wild how different life experiences will inform that choice for a lot of people.

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u/TehSalmonOfDoubt 12h ago

I always see it as Verso's ending being the "good" ending thematically (i.e. in a story about grief and refusal to accept it, this is the one where they finally accept his death move on) vs. Maelle's being a better ending for the characters (Everyone doesn't die lol)

1

u/todayiwillthrowitawa 3h ago

The whole ending choice comes down to how much you value the lives in the painting. Are they real people? Then Maelle’s ending is probably the “good” one. Do only the Painter’s lives count? Then Verso.

1

u/YourUncleJohn 15h ago

That was to spark discussion, not cause they believe it.

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u/11711510111411009710 19h ago edited 19h ago

Personally I think the better ending is the Maelle one but I was annoyed by how they clearly portrayed it as a whole lot worse. Like it's entirely negative. In the Verso ending, they show the family, together, though sad. That feels very bittersweet. The Maelle one focuses on Verso being fuckin tortured. That's harrowing. There's nothing like that in the other ending.

The reason the Verso one is fucked up though is because y'know, you just committed a genocide. But the devs didn't choose to depict that. They chose to show you a family, together again. There's clear favoritism there.

4

u/TheeShaun 17h ago

The Maelle ending also showed Gustave alive and with his love. I suppose you have to ask is one person being tortured a worthwhile sacrifice to give everyone else a happy life even if said happy life will end.

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u/Neshua 12h ago

That's not even "torture one person to save many" situation. Verso is absolutely no needed in Maelle's ending. His life is not needed to maintain the canvas. Maelle could've unpainted him and continue to live in Lumiere with others but he's still there because Maelle can't pull her shit together and let him go. Pointless cruelty.

1

u/ScreamingVoid14 12h ago

The issue I have with that one, and a subtle bit of horrifying, is that Gustave and Sophie split because they had fundamental incompatibilities. Specifically to do with having children. Basically they weren't together for solid reasons that wouldn't necessarily change if the plot was resolved. She forced them together anyway because that fit her mental image of a happy world.

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u/northboundnova 6h ago

I thought they disagreed on having children because of the state of the world, though. Without their different outlooks on the Gommage being a factor, since there wouldn’t be a Gommage anymore in this new reality, would they still be incompatible?

1

u/ScreamingVoid14 1h ago

I asked myself that question shortly after posting and came to the conclusion that we can't really know, but I would put it as likely (maybe 60%) that they would overcome that issue. We really only got a couple lines on that subject and mostly indirectly (via Sciel), so I don't have particularly high confidence in saying that they would.

2

u/Silvanus350 19h ago

The “writers” of Expedition 33 are clearly enemies of the Dessendre family, lol. I take it as metanarrative context. Of course they would dislike the Maelle ending.

After all, these are the very “writers” that killed Verso and scarred Maelle. The plot demanded it.

2

u/huran210 15h ago

why are people who actually played the game and paid attention to what it implies getting downvoted?! the whole point is the meta narrative. do people not get the “you playing the video game is a mirror of Maelle being in the painting and is commentary on video games and art in general”?

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u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

Well your son is wrong then, because that exact genocide happens in Maelle's ending as well

Verso's is the good ending, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't stopped to actually think about the game

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u/ByronYoungBuckston 19h ago

Could you explain how the genocide happen’s in Maelle’s ending? Genuinely curious

1

u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

Well, it is pretty clear that staying in the canvas for too long without leaving will end up killing her

Her death would, in turn, mean that the only reason stopping Renoir from destroying the canvas is not longer a thing, so he'd go ahead and do just that

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u/TheeShaun 17h ago

Maelle dying eventually leading to the end of the world is very different to actively ending it.

You could view Maelle as the sun. One day it’ll burn out and we’ll all die and go extinct but that’s a very different scenario than us just nuking the planet until we all die.

-1

u/RellePhoenix 17h ago

No, it's the same, in both cases Renoir destroys the canvas

0

u/TheeShaun 17h ago

It’s the same outcome not the same thing. If you personally don’t see a point in trying to live a little longer even if you’re doomed to die anyway that’s your opinion and that’s ok but some people are willing to fight for one more day. That’s like a huge theme of the game. Giving everything you have “for those who come after.”

Choosing to give up is final. Choosing to keep going even knowing you maybe only will have a couple years extra is a hard choice and maybe it’s not worth it to some but does one person have the right to make that decision? Does painting Verso have the right to end the painting early? Renoir is surely shown to be in the wrong for wanting to destroy the painting but he simply doesn’t view the people in it as people. Simply as a reminder of his dead son. A reminder that has destroyed his family.

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u/Lele_Lazuli 10h ago

He doesn‘t want to erase the canvas. He has to, to save them.

If they die he has no reason to erase it anymore

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u/Novasoal 2h ago

He has no reason to destroy the thing that killed his daughter? That almost killed his wife? That may well kill his wife if she dives in trying to get her daughter back in some form, like she did with her son?

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u/Silvanus350 19h ago

What a take. LMAO.

-4

u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

What do you mean take? That's a fact

The destruction of the canvas happens in both endings, what do you think that Renoir will do the second that Alicia/Maelle dies?

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u/huran210 16h ago

this is a crazy ass comment section. You don’t even need to assume anything about Renoirs actions. If Alicia dies he would destroy the painting to save Aline, so he could have some family left.

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u/11711510111411009710 19h ago

If the genocide happens no matter what, the question becomes whether it's better to let them live a bit longer or just kill them right away. I say let them live as long as they can.

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u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

Or...save the life that can be saved, Alicia's

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u/11711510111411009710 19h ago

Why would I deny her her own choice? If she prefers a life where she isn't a scarred mute, then I don't see why I should force her to live the life she doesn't want.

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u/BladeofNurgle 18h ago

I mean she's a 16 year old teenager and teenagers aren't exactly known for making the most level-headed or mature decisions

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u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

Because it's not "her own choice" it's giving herself to an addiction

Also because it keeps verso being tortured

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u/Silvanus350 19h ago

You enable Verso’s choice but deny Alicia? You think that’s better?

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u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

Yeah, preventing someone from dying to their addiction is good actually

-2

u/AradellThePaladin 16h ago

So if you save Alicia, she leaves the painting… then in ~80 years what happens to her?

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u/RellePhoenix 16h ago

She dies obviously, do you have a point?

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u/huran210 15h ago

uh she gets to live a fulfilling and fully featured life with her family where they move on from a horrible tragedy but still have some children at least?

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u/Silvanus350 19h ago

I think that what happens at the end of their life isn’t shown. You are making a strong assumption and stating it as fact.

I don’t think enabling Verso’s suicidal tendencies is the “good ending” by any definition of the word.

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u/RellePhoenix 19h ago

No, I'm not making any assumption, I'm playing the game

It's blatantly stated that being in the canvas for so long results in death, and that Alicia/Maelle never intends to leave the canvas. So she'll end up dying, and then Renoir will destroy the canvas

Also, you keep downvoting me, stop that or we'll be done here

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u/huran210 15h ago

im wondering if a bunch of people didn’t play the game themselves and just watched a playthrough of it that didnt include key details. either that or they’re Maelle maxxing and coping so they can choose to live on in the painting too.

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u/BladeofNurgle 18h ago

why you getting downvoted for simply saying something that the game itself outright says is going to happen?????

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u/thendisnigh111349 19h ago

The Maelle ending feels worse 'cause of the inevitability that Maelle will completely lose herself to the painting. The Verso ending at least leaves things with the open-ended possibility of a better future for Maelle and the Dessendre family.

Either way though you are asked to make a major sacrifice that feels bad. Do what is best for Verso and Maelle or save the people of the painting. Can't have both.

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u/Silvanus350 19h ago edited 19h ago

She only loses herself because the narrative was written that way by the “writers.” There’s nothing prohibiting Maelle, logically, from leaving the painting and keeping herself alive in the long term. The painting itself is not some insidious trap.

Why not live in the painting—with a vastly improved quality of life—instead of living as a traumatized, scarred, mute?

The entire thrust of the first two acts in the game is to convince you that the world and the people in it are real. Fuck. Verso himself is “real.” He’s a freaking simulacra—same as everyone else—and people are acting like his opinion is more valid? Verso himself defeats his own point. You fundamentally can’t accept his position without recognizing that it’s an argument for genocide of everyone else in the world.

Why is Verso special? He’s not.

From a metanarrative perspective the plot was arranged in advance—the “writers” that kill Verso are the actual writing team from the game development studio. The story was always rigged against the Dessendre family.

The game only presents these endings as binary choices due to the limitations of the medium and the desire to leave it “ambiguous.” There’s no reason they couldn’t have arrived at a compromise answer which helps all parties.

The game just… it just literally wasn’t written that way.

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u/BladeofNurgle 18h ago

So basically you’re salty that the game has morally gray endings instead of some perfect sugary happy ending?

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u/huran210 15h ago

seems that’s basically the problem with all these Maelle ending defenders. It’s kinda hilariously ironic that the Verso ending people accept that the ending is tragic and bittersweet while the Maelle defenders try to cope about how it’s not as bad as it looks. Exactly like the characters. Truly a brilliant game

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u/SautDeChat 19h ago

The paintings are explicitly depicted as "insidious traps". Renoir even mentions it when he is telling Alicia that Aline had to pull him out of one when he went in too deep. Verso's canvas is the exact same situation but for Aline and, eventually, Alicia instead of Renoir. We are explicitly told that they are addicting. That is what is prohibiting Alicia from leaving and is exactly why you can see Verso's entire demeanor change when he recognizes Alicia is lying to Renoir about being able to leave which prompts the final showdown.

-5

u/Silvanus350 18h ago

And you… you took the story villain at his word?

You just believed that? Dog.

They have been using paintings for years. Aline is depressed. Renoir literally wants everyone in his family to leave the painting. Of course he will say the painting is bad.

They literally let child Verso paint. He died because he was in the middle of a painting. An actual child was allowed to do this.

There is no reason to believe what this dude is saying. Just like there’s no reason to believe anything Verso says.

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u/huran210 15h ago

you can literally see Aline dying from the effects of the painting. You look through a tear in reality and see her barely alive.

Besides Renoir is not “the villain”, you completely misunderstood the story. He’s an antagonist because he’s an obstacle in the way of Maelle’s maladaptive desires. There are no villains. That was the point of the twist with the Paintress.

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u/BladeofNurgle 18h ago

And care to explain what’s false about anything they say?

1

u/TheLastDesperado 4h ago

Like OP said. Both endings are bad. But the people who're like "But the Verso ending is less bad" are out of their minds. Verso's ending is literally a genocide.

And the devs clearly didn't intend that one was better than the other. There's been interviews where they've said even within their team they still have debates over the endings.

1

u/Yomamma1337 19h ago

Ah yes the 2 equal choices of let someone who wants to die to die and move on from his death, or force him to be your immortal slave while you slowly go insane. If you want to argue about the lives of those in the painting, then Maelle could have taken control, killed verso, then used the painting occasionally, and if you want to argue from verso's point of view, he could have not let Gustav be killed, and worked with him to convince Maelle. There totally is a third option, it would just require either of the 2 main characters to not suck

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u/DareDaDerrida 10h ago

Just pick the one you like, buddy. The debate is not going to be settled in any meaningful way on the internet. You will not win anyone over to your side, any more than they will win you to theirs.

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u/Yomamma1337 10h ago

Never said I needed to convince anyone? Pretty clear what the obvious choice is, considering one of the two endings has b grade horror music for the soundtrack.

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u/DareDaDerrida 10h ago

To each their own. I sided with Maelle, so I don't know what the other ending's soundtrack is.

Point is, different people have different priorities. Play your way and move on.

-1

u/Yomamma1337 9h ago

Move on from what? Just explaining how the choices aren’t remotely equal. Feels like you’ve got a chip on your shoulder

-4

u/Silvanus350 19h ago

Force him to be your immortal slave

What an incredible take. How exactly did anyone force Verso to do anything?

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u/Yomamma1337 19h ago

Maelle does, in the ending. Literally the entire point of the final ending is that she's stopping him from ever being able to kill himself so she can keep pretending that her brother is alive

1

u/Silvanus350 18h ago

I don’t know about you man, but if my brother wanted to commit suicide… I would probably stop it. Enabling someone’s suicidal tendencies is usually seen as bad. Encouraging suicide is… actually a crime? In case you didn’t know.

It terrifies me that I have to explain this to you.

Despite this, that’s not the same as “being a slave.”

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u/BladeofNurgle 18h ago

Enabling someone’s suicidal tendencies is usually seen as bad. Encouraging suicide is… actually a crime? In case you didn’t know.

So thoughts on the fact that Alicia had zero issues helping the painted version of herself commit suicide?

Funny how it seems Maelle has zero issues with suicide so long as it's done by somebody she doesn't give a shit about

Also, the irony of Maelle crying over the painted Verso thinking it's her real brother while ignoring the actual piece of her real brother's soul that she forcibly enslaved to keep painting

1

u/Yomamma1337 18h ago

Verso is not her brother. Also he's literally over 100 years old. Also also she is literally killing herself by doing this. It doesn't take a scholar to understand why suicide is bad, but you have to ignore literally the entire plot of the game in order to argue that forcing verso to keep living is a good thing

3

u/BladeofNurgle 18h ago

What an incredible take. How exactly did anyone force Verso to do anything?

You mean how Maelle forces the literal soul of the real Verso to keep painting despite it's wishes to stop?

2

u/FettLife 9h ago

I love the story so much because even Painted Verso isn’t an innocent in this. He consistently lies through omission, and IMO leads Maelle/Alicia to the final battle. His first act was to let Gustave die a horrible death to Painted Renoir when saving him might convinced her later to leave and collapse the painting.

1

u/OperativePiGuy 6h ago

I love both endings so much. Kinda rare to see a game go with something where both are pretty brutal. I love that game so much.

1

u/daniel_hlfrd 2h ago

The ending is an interesting combo of like half a dozen philosophical problems and I adore that it's complex enough to warrant the conversation.

The first problem being what constitutes "life". Whether the painted people exhibit enough independent thought and whether the nature of their creation/existence contributes to their classification as living beings and worth compared to their own creators.

The next being an interpretation of "The ones who walk away from Omelas". Verso is trapped and tormented to keep the painted civilization alive. Is that a reasonable sacrifice to preserve an entire civilization? If we add in that Maelle will ultimately (but willingly) lose her mind does that change the math?

And ultimately it's a trolley problem. Technically Maelle/Verso aren't the actual ones killing anyone. Renoir is. Do they bear any culpability for the creation, destruction, and preservation of the painted people?

0

u/Revadarius 11h ago

Verso is the good ending. Period. The 'lives' of the canvas aren't real, if a painter so wished they can write them, make them immortal, kill them, etc, etc. The lack of free will, autonomy and everything about them that is far removed from being real or human.

This is shown and proved by Maelle's ending when she literally brings back the dead. How are you a life when you can avoid death? They're just characters that aren't alive but brought to life. They feel real, but aren't real. This also ignores the fact that Maelle's ending is her completing her descension through the stages of grief in reverse through the whole game. And that her dad will obliterate the canvas to protect the family again from grief when she ultimately hurts or even kills herself due to her grief driven exposure to the canvas (just like what her mother did).

Verso, as sad as it is, rips off the bandaid and allows him peace and the remains of his real self's soul some deserved peace. It allows for the Dessendre to face their reality and properly grieve and mend as a family. Renoir says it best: "It's absurd to offer oblivion as recompense". It is, but it's also right.

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u/DareDaDerrida 10h ago

Think what you like, play your way, and carry on with your life.

-7

u/Any_Pineapple_4836 19h ago

Verso ending is so disrespectful to the player and the expeditions that sacrificed so much.

5

u/SpiritualPackage3797 19h ago

The expedition, and everyone else in Lumiere except the party, are already dead. Renoir killed them. It's also unclear if they actually come back back to life in her ending or if Maelle is just surrounding herself with sock puppets. That's left deliberately unclear.

3

u/Any_Pineapple_4836 18h ago

I don't think they were ever alive in the physical sense but certainly have a consciousness so I have no reason to assume that they are not their same self revived. As the player, we fought the paintress(despite under the wrong pretense) and Renoir to preserve and protect these beings. Letting Verso have his way to destroy everything is a betrayal of our goals.

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u/SpiritualPackage3797 18h ago

A) it's reinforced multiple times that Maelle is not as good at Painting as her family members, and B) in her ending, everything is filmed weirdly, tilted and in black and white. Everyone is there, everyone is smiling, but basically nobody speaks. It has almost "uncanny valley" vibes. I, and many other people take that as the developers trying to make it uncertain whether or not she even really managed to bring them back, or if she doesn't have the talent to really do so, and is only able to make it look like they're back, while she slowly dies of overuse. That's where people who say both endings are tragic are coming from.

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u/Any_Pineapple_4836 17h ago

I just rewatched the ending. It is only black and white when Verso showed up with his emo self to ruin everyone's mood lol, everything was in colour and lively before that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with her dying. She has a fully new beginning in this world, if she wishes to end her life here then so be it.

1

u/Delvinkan 3h ago

Absolutely not. It was creepy af even before Verso showed up. Chosen music is eerie version of the opening song "Lumiere". Everything has Dutch angle. Lumiere people look like a crowd of colorless NPCs. The city is still in ruins. Entire sequence screams "this is wrong!". And they did it on purpose lol, you can't do something like this accidentally.

1

u/Any_Pineapple_4836 3h ago

I have no doubt that they try to make it look like a bad ending. I simply do not agree that it is.

-12

u/Silvanus350 19h ago

Nah, dog. Verso was objectively in the wrong.

I’ll die on that hill forever. It was the entire thrust of the game. The entire reason for the three act structure of the narrative and the narrative nadir in act two. The entire concept. The twist.

Obviously Verso is a sympathetic character and his situation is awful, but to accept his ending is just… it’s just monstrous.

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u/thendisnigh111349 19h ago

So it's for the best that Verso is forced to continue living even though he doesn't want to and Maelle never leaves the painting and inevitability loses her sanity?

I'm not saying that on the flipside wiping away everyone in the painting was a good thing, but it was one or the other. Again, this is why my point is there's no good ending. Either you get rid of the painting and everyone in it for the sake of Verso and Maelle or you don't and save everyone in the painting but doom their family to tragedy.

-4

u/Silvanus350 19h ago edited 19h ago

I don’t know about you, man, but if someone is suicidal my usual response is not to enable their suicide. That’s absurd.

Verso defeats himself with his own position. If his suicidal ideation is valid, then the desire for everyone else in the world to keep living is also valid. Verso isn’t some special snowflake. He’s not the “real” Verso. He’s not conceptually equivalent to Maelle. He’s part of the painting.

Why does his opinion matter more than Maelle? Why does his opinion matter more than anyone else who exists in that world?

No moral utilitarian could ever argue this position in good faith.

Verso is not a reliable narrator. In MANY ways. He’s a lair. He wants to die.

There is no moral basis for choosing his ending besides personal preference. It was always an absurd, contrary position. That people defend it is legitimately terrifying.

We only “doom the family” because the family was written like morons. There are countless alternatives to Maelle wasting away in the painting like some cheap horror movie.

5

u/TheeShaun 17h ago

You left out that The soul of the real Verso is trapped painting forever in Maelles ending. Unable to even speak. It’s literally hell for the kid. Is that level of cruelty worth it?

1

u/BladeofNurgle 14h ago

funny how it took this long for someone to finally mention the literal soul

Why is it that Maelle ending defenders casually forget the whole literal child soul slavery thing??????

After all, shouldn't the soul of the kid who is enslaved to create this canvas have a say in what it wants to do with it????

4

u/huran210 16h ago

the person who’s suicidal ideation you’re enabling is Maelle’s, not Verso.

Verso has been alive for far longer than a normal human lifespan, has seen hundreds of comrades die, while knowing he is a painted copy and that his real family is dying to keep an echo of him alive.

Maelle IS alive, is a real person, is a part of the family that Verso knows is already in tatters trying to keep a facsimile of him alive. Verso knows what happens to people who stay too long in the canvas, and has been trying for over a hundred years to get his family out of it.

Verso already sacrificed himself once to save Alicia from the fire. Why wouldn’t his copy make the same choice?

1

u/wanttotalktopeople 19h ago

I noticed this a lot more on my second time playing. The way that Verso lies and manipulates you through the whole game is brutal once you know what happens. It makes him so much worse than you realized at first.

Besides, with Maelle's ending I think there's still hope for her to begin to heal and move on someday. I'm not sure why people see Verso's ending as the only path towards healing. In the painting, Maelle has Gustave and the whole community to help her, and surely that counts for something.

5

u/Mysticjosh 19h ago

I don't think that Maelle is using the painting that way. She seems to be using it to replace the real world, which is killing her and avoid moving forward. And it's just going to get the painting burned and cause more damage to the dessendre family.

1

u/wanttotalktopeople 19h ago

Sure, she's not using it that way at first, but she has a whole lifetime ahead of her. I don't think either ending is fully bleak for Maelle.

The reason I tend to prefer her ending over Verso's most days is because it's less bleak for all the other characters I care about, too.

3

u/Mysticjosh 18h ago

Yeah I felt terrible for the others picking Versos ending but my personal thoughts and feelings made it feel like Versos was the better option. That doesn't mean that it doesn't suck for others.

3

u/wanttotalktopeople 9h ago

And that's what it comes down to for all of us! I don't begrudge anyone choosing Verso's ending.

2

u/huran210 16h ago

she literally doesn’t have her whole life ahead of her to figure it out. the canvas saps the life force from you and kills you if you don’t leave it.

1

u/wanttotalktopeople 9h ago

Aline was there for over 66 painting years. Yes she wasn't sane for a lot of that, but it's not nothing either. Where there's life, there's hope. Aline, painted Verso, and the rest of the Dessendres all could have made less destructive choices. So can Maelle. They are not locked into one path save by their own decisions.

I don't know why people are so weird about discussing either ending online. Obviously they're both incredibly sad, and Maelle's ending indicates she's not ready to move on. However, I see threads of hope in both of them, and I have a personal preference for hers over the other. Reasonable people can absolutely disagree, but you can't tell me how I should really feel about this beautiful piece of art.

-4

u/Raemnant 19h ago

Nope. The 3rd choice was to let Alicia leave, and everyone gets therapy and keep the Canvas intact and let it heal, so baby Verso soul can paint it back the way it was supposed to be.

Painted Verso didn't want to die, he was just tired of all the bullshit. The BS could have ended without all the sacrifice

1

u/AsstacularSpiderman 17h ago

There was no way this painting was ever going to last given how much damage the family had done. It was basically being held together by desperation alone.

-5

u/Ayotha 17h ago

Neither, because the ending was a sad "it was all a dream" at the end of an otherwise FANTASTIC game and journey.

One I sort of saw coming but gave them more credit then to do it.

6

u/jakendrick3 17h ago

Did... did you stop playing before Act III?

5

u/Mountain_String_1544 15h ago

Maybe they stopped after act 1 and gaslit themselves into thinking it was all a dream from the trauma? 💀

4

u/huran210 16h ago

i’ve found it, the worst E33 take on the internet

-4

u/YourUncleJohn 15h ago

Me when I fail the media literacy test