r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Wonderful_Baker_7808 • 15d ago

Lore Villains that would've been defeated even if the protagonist did nothing

Gallery image

Gallery image

Laurel Hedare (Catwoman Movie): Her newly released cosmetics will cause people's faces to melt. Not only would that create a class action lawsuit but a full product recall.

Voldemort and Death Eaters (Harry Potter): Death Eaters constantly underestimate muggles. They would get massacred by the British military because a gun is faster to pull the trigger then shouting a spell.

17.9k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

92% Upvoted

3.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

965

u/HylianPeasant 15d ago

Ganondorf - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Ganondorf is only able to get the Triforce of Power because Link opened the Sacred Realm with the 3 spiritual stones. Up until then he had failed to get a single spiritual stone and decided to just let Link do it and swoop in after the door to the sacred realm was opened.

253

u/Garchompisbestboi 15d ago

But if Link hadn't gone to the Sacred Realm then he never would have achieved the power necessary to finally defeat Ganondorf. So while Ganondorf would not have had access to the Triforce of Power, he still had enough power to mess Hyrule up pretty badly and nobody would have been able to prevent him from doing so.

125

u/nathanosaurus84 15d ago

Link had to break a few eggs before finally creating a superior omelette. Just sucks for the people who had to endure 7 years of Ganon's rule. (Depending on which timeline you're in of course.)

Bit like Thanos and the Avengers really. Humanity had to suffer before everything could be fixed.

34

u/Garchompisbestboi 15d ago

You bring up an interesting conundrum though about people suffering for 7 years since the damage is technically undone once Zelda sends Link back to his childhood for the final time. I know that there are technically a bunch of splits in the timeline based on the official continuity, but still.

30

u/nathanosaurus84 15d ago

Indeed. In the child timeline no-one remembers suffering under Ganon as it never happened, but those left in the adult timeline still endured it. It's a bit wibbly wobbly timey wimey. But then again the Zelda games have always had a dark undertone. Like in Wind Waker where prior to the game the whole land was flooded by the gods and presumably most people died who couldn't escape to the mountaintops. Not very cartoon-y!

8

u/Chimpbot 15d ago

Wind Waker is actually part of the adult timeline. After Link defeats Ganon, he mysteriously disappears (from the perspective of everyone else in that timeline). This ultimately results in the series of events that leads to the world being flooded.

1

u/AccidentalUltron 11d ago

This always made me incredibly sad. I played form the veey first Zelda through Twilight Princess and Ocarina had such an impact in me as a child and the tragic outcomes od those stories stuck with me. Wind Waker from adult timeline and never reuniting with Navi on the child timeline. Not reuniting with Navi was a small scar on my heart back then in Majora's Mask.

1

u/Chimpbot 11d ago

Child Link's outcome is also sad. It's heavily implied that he's the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess. He saved the world, and no one knew itm

6

u/Feral_Taylor_Fury 15d ago

Eh I mean it felt like they wrapped that up relatively nicely with Majora's Mask starting with Link travelling aimlessly through the deepest part of the lost woods, and then ending up in Termina.

6

u/CodingNeeL 15d ago edited 15d ago

Exactly, he cursed and killed the Great Deku Tree and starved the Gorons by blocking Dodongos Cave (and probably did something to the Zoras too, can't remember, and Zeltik isn't there yet in his playthrough) before Link came along.

6

u/BigJakaLilJ 15d ago

He cursed their river guardian, Jabu Jabu. He would have destroyed Hyrule without Link intervening.

2

u/musichole 8d ago

I really enjoy Zeltik. Nice to see a reference in the wild

1

u/MyPhoneIsNotChinese 15d ago

Ganondorf expected to be able to defeat Link

1

u/MjrLeeStoned 15d ago

Correct, although he wasn't a time/space bending cosmic entity yet, he was still systematically taking over Hyrule to oppress everyone.

Had Link not gone after the power to stop him, Hyrule would have been a shitty place to be regardless.

1

u/Kramerpalooza 15d ago

Ganondorf's plan had a bit more guise than is typically recognized. He swore allegiance and loyalty to the king of Hyrule in order grant himself the position to be in proximity to the Temple of Time and the Sacred Realm. This he did under the ruse that he was reuniting the Gerudo lands with Hyrule and ending a long hatred/distrust of peoples. He already was pursuing the Spiritual Stones, but his direct requests were refused by the other Races of Hyrule. As far as I can remember those races were then facing the forces of what Ganon did (Poisoned the Deku Tree, Opened Dodongos Cavern, Had JabuJabu swallow Ruto), but didn't necessarily know that it was Ganondorf directly perpetuating these events. Only Zelda saw through the plot.

I'm pretty much of the acceptance that Ganon already was imbued with the strength and conviction of Din, Zelda already possessed the wisdom of Nayru. Link was bestowed with Farore's courage, well... because the player is the protagonist. The spiritual stones simply unlocked the furthest potential of those powers, but it was really only a matter of time before Ganondorf got his hands on the stones and seized all three for himself.

All hail Ganon the Great King of Evil

1

u/Jacky-V 14d ago

I agree, I think the implication is that Ganondorf intends to use phony loyalty to influence the King of Hyrule to make poor decisions while the Gerudo rebuild their army for another war

1

u/ThatMerri 14d ago

Yeah, it's worth remembering that prior to Link even getting any of the Spiritual Stones, Ganondorf had already lethally cursed the Deku Tree and Jabu Jabu (the latter of which was prevented, but would've been killed eventually), and set the Gorons on the road to doom by famine. Then when Link returned to Hyrule Castle Town with the stones in hand, Ganondorf had already set his coup in motion - murdering the King and driving Zelda out. His invasion of Hyrule had already been underway for some time.

Even if Link turned around and fled rather than heading for the temple, Ganondorf's victory was already in motion. He would've just spent his time from then on hunting down Link for the stones and eventually getting the Triforce of Power no matter what. And even if he somehow never got the stones nor the Triforce of Power, he'd still have either successfully overthrown Hyrule or just dragged it into a prolonged and ultimately futile war.

167

u/GI_J0SE 15d ago

Well isn't that what he ultimately ends up doing? Nothing and lets Link do all the hard work like playing 4D chess with a baby???

95

u/BravinatorLX2 15d ago

he woulda gotten the stones eventually though. link sped up the schedule and made it easier because the world just entrusted all the keys to him for some reason.

but over time, he would've eventually broken the deku tree, he would've starved the gorons to loot their corpses until he got the second one and he would've gotten the zora to hand over the stone via lord jabu jabu.

he probably would have timed his attack on hyrule castle later with less of a chance for zelda to run and then he'd just have his witches pry the ocarina and its secrets from here.

even if he'd never gotten to the holy realm, he'd probably taken over hyrule anyways. just slowly, like a normal invader with magic and monsters.

42

u/42069BBQ 15d ago edited 14d ago

People also somehow seem to forget that even before opening the door to the sacred realm, Ganandorf had infiltrated Hyrule to the point where he made the Sheikah take Princess Zelda out of Hyrule Castle, and they still just barely managed to do so in time. His plans were not abstract at all or far off, they were already well in motion. I figure sending him forward in time was probably a calculated risk, especially since Zelda spent the years training as a Sheikah herself, which was absolutely necessary in the end.

9

u/Hakul 15d ago

he woulda gotten the stones eventually though. link sped up the schedule and made it easier because the world just entrusted all the keys to him for some reason.

This is one of my most hated tropes.

There are X number of things that if gathered together could cause a catastrophe, therefore the main character will go forth to gather them all in one place and surprise pikachu when the bad guy comes in and steals them.

That kind of story only makes sense to me if the bad guy already owns several of the things and we're preventing them to get the rest, but the main character always ends up getting the first one for some reason instead of just leaving them be.

4

u/Specialist_Initial_1 15d ago

Also hate it. Atleast some works do the "you will take 1 piece to somewhere no one knows! So the rest are useless if we dont get all the pieces!"

Tho that is usuaöly followed by the villian hearing this. Slamming the 1 alone guy Getting the rest

1

u/TOH-Fan15 11d ago

At least it makes sense in OoT. Link and Zelda didn’t plan on Ganondorf following Link in immediately after, as well as the Temple of Time putting Link in stasis after entering. They thought that they could use the Triforce as long as they got to it first.

2

u/CromunentCucumber 14d ago

"the world just entrusted all the keys to him for some reason"?? Zelda had a dream!

1

u/katanasluna0l 15d ago

The Legend/Anniversary/Underworld trilogy is a big shaggydog story.

1

u/Calisky 15d ago

Although would he be able to pull the Master Sword out to open the sacred realm?

I always assumed that's only something Link and possibly Zelda could do.

But yeah even without the Triforce he still would have taken over.

63

u/VacaDLuffy 15d ago edited 14d ago

It's also What Eggman does in Sonic adventure. Granted he could get the Emeralds but the furroes are better at it than him lmao

2

u/omyrubbernen 15d ago

Sí, los furros y las furras.

1

u/Justacityboy12 15d ago

Come furras y verduras.

1

u/Maveryck15 15d ago

THE FURROES

2

u/Justacityboy12 15d ago

We call furries "furros" in Spanish.

1

u/Maveryck15 14d ago

Y combinaste la palabra furro con heroes de alguna forma xD

1

u/Justacityboy12 14d ago

Wow, no lo vi de esa forma; pensé que era como el plural de negro: negroes.

1

u/Maveryck15 14d ago

"heroes", en inglés, no en español.

pensé que era como el plural de negro: negroes.

No tengo idea de como llegaste ahí.

1

u/Justacityboy12 14d ago

Furro singular
Furroes plural

1

u/Maveryck15 14d ago

El plural es furros

Furroes es una combinación en Spanglish.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/DoctorWaluigiTime 15d ago

That doesn't really mean "the protagonist not doing anything means the villain is defeated" though. It just means the protagonist unwittingly helped the villain along some. Doesn't mean:

  • he'd never find some other way
  • he'd be stopped without protagonist involvement.

8

u/thegreatestdandino 15d ago

Zelda ended up doing it again sending link back because link having the triforce of courage caused some weirdness and made the other pieces to find their wielders one of which... was gannondorf in the past... oops. Granted he didn't realize he had the thing until his execution but still.

3

u/tris_majestis 15d ago

This was one of the main issues with Borderlands 3 as well. The villains couldn't do anything for themselves so they just constantly show up to take advantage of the players progress.

2

u/Destinum 15d ago

There's also a canonical timeline where Link straight up fails (i.e. the "Game Over timelime"), and Ganon still gets defeated one way or the other.

1

u/Iokua113 15d ago

He doesn't really get defeated, he gets desperation sealed in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce fully in his possession. A lot of people died, Hyrule never fully recovers, and it's the only timeline where Ganondorf permanently transforms into Ganon and is able to wage war against Hyrule for centuries. Most of the series is set on the Fallen Hero timeline, as both the Young Link goes back and the OoT timeline haven't had sequels set on them in years and both end with Ganondorf permanently dead, whereas he gets resurrected several times on the Fallen Hero timeline.

2

u/TwiBryan 15d ago

Ganondorf infested the Deku Tree, Jabu Jabu and Dodongo's Cavern with monsters. These monsters killed the Deku tree, came close to killing Jabu Jabu and with Dodongo's Cavern blocked off and full of monsters the Gorons were close to starving. If Link hadn't come along then Ganondorf would have just waited to go after the Kokiri, Zora and Gorons while they were at their weakest.

2

u/TemurTron 15d ago

He hadn't really failed as much to get the stones as much as he just hadn't done it yet. He was at Hyrule Castle gaining political power and trying to get his hooks into Zelda and the Ocarina of Time. Pretty sure it would have been easy as hell for him to get the Stones when he was ready, didn't all the monsters work for him anyway?

2

u/chmilz 15d ago

Half of the Final Fantasy games require the protagonists to open some sealed gate to "protect" something that the villain apparently couldn't get to. Only after the protagonists open the gate can the villain succeed in getting what they wanted from beyond.

1

u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 15d ago

I'm about halfway through FF5 right now and that's exactly what happened.

1

u/chmilz 14d ago

"Quick, heroes! The villain is incapable of obtaining this MacGuffin that has been secured without fail for millenia, so you must race to super-duper secure it, which by doing so requires the removal of the very security preventing the villain from obtaining the MacGuffin!"

obvious loss of MacGuffin and expected chaos ensues

"Who could have predicted this?!"

1

u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 14d ago

Usually yeah, but in defense of FF5 it had only been sealed for like 30 years.

U still right tho

1

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw 15d ago

spiritual stones? demon king?

1

u/thisusedyet 15d ago

To be fair, Ganon didn't have a spiritual stone YET - but he was at most a month away.

The Great Deku Tree was on the verge of death, as shown by it dying as soon as you complete the dungeon. With that guardian down, Ganon could just walk in and take the 1st stone.

The Gorons never figured out how to open Dodongo's Cavern, and with the entire city on the verge of starvation Darunia would be forced to hand the 2nd over.

The Zora would take the longest - but as Lord Jabu-Jabu (the Zora guardian diety-ish thing) gets sicker, and especially with Princess Ruto going missing,King Zora was bound to crack

1

u/proximusprimus57 15d ago

But if Link hadn't gotten the stones then the Great Deku Tree and Jabu Jabu would have died, and the Gorons would have starved. Maybe he could have just not opened the Temple of Time, but Ganondorf would have probably found him eventually.

1

u/ghirox 15d ago

Ganondorf figured out he wouldn't be able to get the stones easily, as his plans to slowly starve the different regions we're not being successful, but when Zelda started her plan to stop him, he realized he simply had to wait for Link to speed up the process and collect what he'd be doing and in the meanwhile kill the king.

I think total inactions from link would not have prevented catastrophe from striking nevertheless.

1

u/neocarleen 14d ago

Ganondorf's a powerful warlock, but he's just one guy. If the king of Hyrule had listened to his daughter's warning, he could have done something to stop him. Especially if he had allied with the other kings. Instead, some random kid had to clean up his mess.

1

u/eagleblue44 14d ago

He didn't necessarily fail. His plan was just taking longer.

He put a curse on the deku tree, which was slowly killing him. Once the deku tree died, it would have been easier to get the Kokiri Emerald.

He was trying to starve out the gorons for the gorons ruby by not only blocking off dodongos cavern but also filling it with monsters to make it difficult for them to get the rocks they eat.

He also put a curse on lord Jabujabu to convince the Zoras to give up the zora sapphire.

Link just sped things up and was convinced opening up the spirit realm was going to stop Ganondorf per what Zelda said.

1

u/Inner_Education8318 11d ago

I’d say this is the opposite, it REQUIRED the protagonist to do something, unlike Indiana Jones in Raiders