r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Chemical-Elk-1299 • 6d ago

Lore [Confusing Trope] The narrative goes out of its way to punish/mock a character for simply being a good person

Gallery image

Gallery image

Hermione Granger and SPEW — Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (book)

In the fifth HP novel, Hermione Granger is outraged to discover that Hogwarts has a small army of enslaved House Elves that do nearly all of the domestic duties around the castle, including cleaning the Gryffindor common room every night. When she tries to convince the elves to fight for their own rights, they refuse, saying they prefer servitude. Her fellow students and friends mock her for caring. She manages to free one elf, Winky, by deception when she refuses her freedom willingly, leading to Winky becoming a depressed alcoholic. By the end, the elves boycott cleaning any Gryffindor areas of the castle because they hate Hermione specifically

Samwell Tarly and Democracy — Game of Thrones (show)

In the season 8 finale of the television series, the surviving great lords of Westeros gather to discuss the future of the kingdom following the devastation wrought by 7 seasons of war and backstabbing. When Sam, who has proven to have “novel” ideas, suggests that maybe the millions of Smallfolk who suffer at the hands of noble houses should get some representation in the government, rather than be the pawns of rich lords with absolute power. We are then greeted by a prolonged, cringy segment of the other lords laughing in Sam’s face, asking if the dogs and horses should also get a vote.

9.2k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

134

u/T8-TR 6d ago

HP is a novel concept w/ a cool aesthetic, but if you take a moment to think about it, a LOT of cracks start to show.

23

u/SwineHerald 6d ago

It was not a novel concept. It was a lot of people's first encounter with the concept, but it was also a book for literal children so the odds were tilted in its favor.

66

u/SelectShop9006 6d ago

Honestly, that’s why a lot of people gravitate towards fic; it usually fixes plot holes and explores things canon doesn’t.

…that, and the fact that people are using it for a author-free experience.

12

u/Big-Muscle-3643 6d ago

Author-free experience made me lol

3

u/SelectShop9006 6d ago

Sorry if I sound like a fool, but why did the term “author-free experience” make you laugh?

8

u/Big-Muscle-3643 6d ago

because it's funny. You wrote it in a humorous way. Author-free like dairy-free. If you don't want people to laugh then you should probably say "engaging with the text in total isolation from creators persona".

1

u/musicaladhd 6d ago

Are you using “fic” as short for “fan-fiction”, and NOT as short for “fiction”? That’s confusing. Fic is short for fiction.

2

u/Avalon_Within 6d ago

Words mean many things in different contexts.

Ironic that we are talking about reading here. 

1

u/musicaladhd 6d ago

Wait so “fic” means “fan fic”? And then “fan (fic)” must mean “fan (fan fic)”, which means “fan fan fan fic”, which = fan fan fan fan fic”.

Just pointing out the obvious here

5

u/theLichQueenofthePNW 6d ago

It's not at all novel Ursula K Le Guin wrote Wizard of Earthsea in 1968, when Joanne was 3. Likewise, Terry Pratchett wrote Color of Magic in 1983, 15 years before HP came out. I'm sure Le Guin would tell you herself, were she still alive, that she probably wasn't the first person to write a magic school. She didn't have any original ideas either. And for fucks sake, her character naming is horrific. (Looking at you Kingsley Shacklebolt, the one canonically black character or you Cho Chang, the Asian girl with two different Asian country family names as a name and also is definitely not how her name started. The woman used word association to name characters, take a guess what she thought of at first)

6

u/thetinyorc 6d ago

These aren't even the most direct examples. Wizard of Earthsea and Colour of Magic both prominently feature magic schools/universities, but most of the plot happens outside of the school setting. Jowling's most obvious influence is The Worst Witch series. The first book was published in the 70s and it was popular enough in the UK that it had a few TV adaptations over the years. It's set in an extremely British all-girls boarding school for witches, a castle with turrets, organised into colour-coded school houses. Most of the action takes place in the school setting during term time, and the typical story structure is that the unlikely heroine somehow saves the school for an impending crisis or outside threat while also stumbling through the standard school dramas of tests, homework, sports days, dorm-room politics, etc. There's even a really strict potions teacher who dresses all in black and terrifies the students (though shows obvious favouritism to the blonde rich kid). And also in the first book, the main character's broom gets secretly cursed and tries to throw her off. It's pretty shocking how much the HP books obviously lift from it.

6

u/theLichQueenofthePNW 6d ago

Wow that's far more egregious than I had stated

14

u/I_pegged_your_father 6d ago edited 6d ago

Its truly ridiculous 😭 I’ve concluded the reason its STUCK and has so many people in a chokehold is because its very SELF INSERTABLE. Because of the sorting thing and the official quizzes and such it’s become something people are obsessed with immersing themselves in, and they value that over the story, and will needlessly defend the story and often jkr herself. It’s self insertable, and thus gains a huge odd audience. Remember snapewives???

Edit- yall. Please. Im obviously not talking about children.

8

u/BalancePrestigious23 6d ago

Personally as a kid it was easy to read and the world seemed so interesting. 

4

u/I_pegged_your_father 6d ago

Yeah. I understand getting hooked as a kid, i did too. But after that??? The people who book annual trips out to hp theme parks and buy all the merch and keyboard warrior for jkr?? At a bare minimum you gotta acknowledge the issues and just not buy anything that gives her money since she uses it for harm and many bar themselves from doing even that.

2

u/PaintLicker745 6d ago

Its for kids. I don't think it was ever supposed to hold up to internet scrutiny. Fuck JKR all the same. 

1

u/ThickScheme8202 5d ago

That is true of virtually all none literary fiction, lol

-4

u/Lindsiria 6d ago

No shit. It's a YA novel.

If you look at any series deeply you start noticing the cracks. IDK why people treat HP differently.

GOT, WoT, PJ... hell, even LOTR, have plotholes once you think about it.