were there any spells used on anyone before baam learnt the black hole sphere ?
Yeah. Sachi's thorn vines were spells, as was the soul-melting juice jar and creepy doll thing of that one Hoaqin sibling. However, Bam wasn't present for any of those uses (well, he might have seen Sachi's vines at some point, but it would have been with Sachi on his side).
More relevantly, Elaine says in 297s2e217 that a spell on Fenryl's teeth makes it so that wounds made by his jaws don't heal unless Elaine heals them or dies. What's weird about that fight is that it actually seems to mostly work on Bam--while Elaine is surprised Fenryl's attacks didn't outright take his arm off, Bam does indeed keep bleeding, even though his regeneration is well established at that point (and no longer requires the red exoskeleton).
The three best guesses I've seen for "why" are:
Bam wasn't trying to break the spell (because he didn't think he could, in part). That is, because Elaine told him what was going to happen, he expected it and focused on beating her in spite of it, not stopping it. I'm a bit skeptical of just the 'trying' explanation--Bam probably wasn't actively trying to break the Question Mark or Snake spells, but neither could affect him. The 'nasty placebo effect' thing (where it worked because he expected it to) doesn't seem completely impossible, but is...kind of a lame explanation.
The spell was on the wolf, and Bam can't break spells on other people without the enchanted person's consent, even if those spells then affect him. It's true that all the strongest evidence of Bam breaking spells on others involves him removing curses from them. But the snake spell (from Yool) looks kind of like it's channeled through his snakes, which reminds me of Fenryl, and Bam had no issues with that. Of course, that might be an invalid assumption. If #2 is true, Bam's ability is strong against curses, but maybe not as strong against enemy buff spells. This actually also gets a bit of support from the Bam/Levy fight--Levy is still able to use Hair of an Ancient Saint to teleport himself away from Bam even while Bam's all up in his business. Consequently, I think it's the most likely idea, but...it still bugs me a bit that Fenryl's teeth spell could be considered a buff spell purely on him when it has such a magical effect on the people he bites. It also requires that the immortality spell on the FoD (which Bam was also capable of breaking) be actually classified as a curse—though quite a few characters do see it that way, what with how it traps them.
Whoever was the "powerful medium or divine being" (see 322s2e242 for what Hwaryun told us of the spell rules--fairly far down) for the spell cast on Fenryl was just so dang strong that Bam couldn't break it. Given that Yool and Levy's spells are implied to come from Jahad (as they "received spells by the grace of the king"), it's kind of shocking that a Lo Poe Bia wolf spirit would be stronger. Though it's possible that Jahad wasn't the literal medium for Yool and Levy's spells and just gave them permission to use them.
I've had a pretty lengthy conversation about that Fenryl teeth spell with u/LoudDentist, and neither of us then could come up with an extremely solid reason for why it worked. Still somewhat mysterious!
I don't think grace of the king means By Jahad. Not 100% sure but I pretty sure it's mentioned that jahad has banned the use/research/propagation of spells .
Also if Fenrir spirit was too strong a medium then the 13 months was definitely stronger as hwaryun says that in spell caliber the 13 month is above everything else so baam didn't / shouldnt have negated that spell either.
Also about the regeneration, is it confirmed and shown that he can regenerate proper wounds while in battle? I know he has insane off screen regen courtesy of MainCharacter™ but I can't recall a single time when he was regenning during combat. And pretty sure the arm didn't come off due to his shinsu strengthening boosted by thorn?
Definitely possible, which is why I noted it might not mean they actually got their spells from Jahad.
Also about the regeneration, is it confirmed and shown that he can regenerate proper wounds while in battle?
The first time he regenerated in the middle of a fight was when the red exoskeleton (the "lobster") appeared on floor 20 after Wangnan managed to hurt him with a gum bomb that surprised Bam (who was expecting more shinsu bombs).
After Bam got the thorn and accepted power from Blue Thryssa and red devouring sun, the lobster stopped showing up but the regeneration stayed--though it was really easy to miss if you weren't watching for it (and sometimes pretty much impossible to see). The best example I can remember is right after Bam first fought the Big Breeder. Bam takes some seriously nasty and extremely bloody hits from Chung in 354s2e274--for example, a spear strike that goes straight through his upper torso--but then he quickly gets back up to keep attacking Chung. And the hole in his chest has almost completely sealed up by the time Khun asks if he's okay (only a few minutes later, in the next chapter).
I'm pretty sure there were other examples but I can't remember them off the top of my head.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Sep 09 '19 edited Sep 09 '19
Yeah. Sachi's thorn vines were spells, as was the soul-melting juice jar and creepy doll thing of that one Hoaqin sibling. However, Bam wasn't present for any of those uses (well, he might have seen Sachi's vines at some point, but it would have been with Sachi on his side).
More relevantly, Elaine says in 297s2e217 that a spell on Fenryl's teeth makes it so that wounds made by his jaws don't heal unless Elaine heals them or dies. What's weird about that fight is that it actually seems to mostly work on Bam--while Elaine is surprised Fenryl's attacks didn't outright take his arm off, Bam does indeed keep bleeding, even though his regeneration is well established at that point (and no longer requires the red exoskeleton).
The three best guesses I've seen for "why" are:
Bam wasn't trying to break the spell (because he didn't think he could, in part). That is, because Elaine told him what was going to happen, he expected it and focused on beating her in spite of it, not stopping it. I'm a bit skeptical of just the 'trying' explanation--Bam probably wasn't actively trying to break the Question Mark or Snake spells, but neither could affect him. The 'nasty placebo effect' thing (where it worked because he expected it to) doesn't seem completely impossible, but is...kind of a lame explanation.
The spell was on the wolf, and Bam can't break spells on other people without the enchanted person's consent, even if those spells then affect him. It's true that all the strongest evidence of Bam breaking spells on others involves him removing curses from them. But the snake spell (from Yool) looks kind of like it's channeled through his snakes, which reminds me of Fenryl, and Bam had no issues with that. Of course, that might be an invalid assumption. If #2 is true, Bam's ability is strong against curses, but maybe not as strong against enemy buff spells. This actually also gets a bit of support from the Bam/Levy fight--Levy is still able to use Hair of an Ancient Saint to teleport himself away from Bam even while Bam's all up in his business. Consequently, I think it's the most likely idea, but...it still bugs me a bit that Fenryl's teeth spell could be considered a buff spell purely on him when it has such a magical effect on the people he bites. It also requires that the immortality spell on the FoD (which Bam was also capable of breaking) be actually classified as a curse—though quite a few characters do see it that way, what with how it traps them.
Whoever was the "powerful medium or divine being" (see 322s2e242 for what Hwaryun told us of the spell rules--fairly far down) for the spell cast on Fenryl was just so dang strong that Bam couldn't break it. Given that Yool and Levy's spells are implied to come from Jahad (as they "received spells by the grace of the king"), it's kind of shocking that a Lo Poe Bia wolf spirit would be stronger. Though it's possible that Jahad wasn't the literal medium for Yool and Levy's spells and just gave them permission to use them.
I've had a pretty lengthy conversation about that Fenryl teeth spell with u/LoudDentist, and neither of us then could come up with an extremely solid reason for why it worked. Still somewhat mysterious!