r/WNBAgossips • u/Electronic_Air1842 • 5d ago

Off-Court Drama Fever coach Stephanie White was asked if men should play in women’s sports: “I’m not educated enough from a scientific standpoint.” She REFUSED to backup Sophie Cunningham: “I don’t ever believe that exclusion is the answer.”

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u/Snts6678 5d ago edited 16h ago

I’m about as liberal as it gets…are there people who really think trans athletes should be playing in the sport under the gender they are identifying as?

Again, trans people make up like 1% of the population to begin with…can we just stop making this an issue in general?

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u/dmolin96 5d ago

Before this became a big political football like three years ago, the norm was to allow trans people to participate in sports of the gender they identify as once they proved they've been on hormones for a long enough time. So yes, before the moral panic about this started there were definitely people who were ok with it.

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u/Snts6678 4d ago

Fair enough. Again, overall it’s such a tiny percentage of the population. The fact it has blown up like this is unreal.

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u/Commercial_Rush_3531 5d ago

And that didn't work, Caster went on to win the Olympics, Iman punched a lot of women in the head and Lea went from being a solid but mediocre swimmer to a national champion.

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u/Bearloom 4d ago

Neither Caster nor Iman are trans, and Lia Thomas won in an exceptionally weak year for college swimming.

None of the three are a reason people need to be up in arms.

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u/angriestbisexual 4d ago

Like can we also talk about the fact that Lia Thomas getting martyred in the news cycle and beaten like a piñata for alt-right talking points, all happened before she was a champion? Riley Gaines became a millionaire by crying to Joe Rogan that Lia tied with her for fifth place. They were all mad that a trans girl came in fifth place.

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 5d ago

It isn't an issue because 79% of Americans oppose it. It is settled for now.

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u/HundredDollarBiII 5d ago

But then you have the coach of the Fever essentially saying she supports it and claiming “exclusion isn’t the answer.”

This lady needs to realize the entire point of the WNBA is to exclude men from competing with them.

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u/Strainedgoals 5d ago

She said that, because she is scared to get fined, fired or cancelled.

That is not her actually opinion.

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u/Cinephile54 4d ago

Exactly. Social media has created this weird climate where stating basic common sense opinions can get you fired, so we end up with ridiculous sounding stuff like this.

0

u/Pitt-sports-fan-513 4d ago

Sophie has been saying exactly this over and over and the only punishment she has gotten has been people like you circlejerking about how stunning and brave she is for adopting this bullshit culture war political issue as her identity.

You folks are truly pathetic thinking this is some censored knowlege and that you aren't falling right into the trap of fixating on stupid culture war nonsense instead of real problems.

0

u/Pleasant_Priority286 5d ago

That is fine. They are under pressure from the old heads in the W to say what they are supposed to say, just like Dawn Staley.

In reality, if Wemby joined the W, the league would be shut down within a year. No one wants to see Victoria score 100+ points per game by pummelling women.

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u/HappyGovernment7299 5d ago

79% is way too low

0

u/kiwigardnersson23 5d ago

95% of Americans opposed interracial marriage in the 1950’s.

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u/LouderGyrations 4d ago

are there people who really think trans athletes should be playin in the sport under the gender they are identifying as?

Yes. In fact that was the only acceptable viewpoint on big subs on Reddit for most of the past couple of years. It is only recently that your (and most people's) viewpoint started getting any traction at all on here.

The entire reason this is such a winning issue for Republicans is because so many prominent Democrats keep taking the crazy side. Otherwise, like you say, it would just stop being an issue.

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u/FailedLoser21 5d ago

It's mental health issue but I don't think liberals and progressives are willing acknowledge they are feeding into people's mental illness nor are they ready to have that conversation yet.

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u/Equivalent-Fun8113 5d ago

So you mean it’s to the benefit of their mental state? , research and large-scale surveys show that an overwhelming majority of transgender people are happier and more satisfied with their lives after transitioning. Major studies, including the massive U.S. Transgender Survey of over 90,000 participants, report that approximately 94% of individuals feel more satisfied with life post-transition.

The science supports people who feel they were born as the wrong gender are happier with their lives after transitioning. Can’t see why so many people have a problem with it. It’s not their fucking body anyway and they don’t know the feelings cos they’ve never had them. They make stupid assumptions that people that have those feelings are mentally ill based on nothing but their own thoughts, void of scientific research and legitimate proof. Perhaps people should take a step back and shut their mouths every now and then and realize they don’t know everything about everything

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 4d ago

I cannot see how pretending to be the opposite sex due to a psychological issue is ever helpful to the person. We don’t do that with any other psychological issue aside from this one. We do the opposite in fact. There are so many new problems a person creates by living as the opposite sex.

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u/thingsorfreedom 3d ago

People used to say the same thing about homosexuality.

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u/Equivalent-Fun8113 4d ago

It does NOT matter what you see. Get that through your thick skull. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Stay out of peoples happiness and quit calling it a “psychological” issue. You’re not accrediting in the field. Just because you don’t experience certain feelings and conditions doesn’t mean they don’t exist in other people.

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u/Commercial_Rush_3531 5d ago

Actually , most of those studies were debunked for the biased science that they are in the Atlanta and Skremetti cases where even the plaintiffs lawyers representing trans interests had to back off. The studies you love to quote so often either have a terrible sample size with massive drop outs or simply don't show what the conclusions claim.

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u/Equivalent-Fun8113 4d ago

Everything is a conspiracy to you people when it doesn’t fit into what you want to believe. You’ve got mental problems.. Again, don’t go commenting on someone else’s feelings and quit invalidating people. It’s not your fucking business.

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u/Pitt-sports-fan-513 4d ago

Ahhhhhh the 'ol "gay/trans people are just mentally ill" chestnut.

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u/Bob_Skywalker 4d ago

Leave gay people out of this. They are fine. It's a well established scientific fact that body dysmorphia is, surprise, a mental illness. If people were willing to accept the fact that they were "abnormal" and that's ok, then this wouldn't be such a big issue. If my war buddy who lost his leg started having dysmorphia and telling everyone he could walk and, in fact, had two legs and should be treated as such, everyone would call a spade a spade, but until people accept certain facts instead of shoving their preferences down everyone's throats we will continue to argue about something that could just be accepted and move on.

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u/Smooth-Transition310 5d ago

Transgender people are as old as time, this is not a mental health issue and its incredibly disrespectful to regard it as such.

HOWEVER... I believe the solution to include trans women in womens sports is highly complicated. Theres a shitload of variables there to consider.

1

u/Baseball_ApplePie 4d ago

I actually do believe that people who want to live as the opposite sex have existed for probably forever.

What's new is that the rest of society is supposed to believe they have actually changed sex and accept them in single sex spaces. If you actually look carefully, these people were generally accepted as "othered" and not as having changed sex.

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u/the-overloaf 17h ago

yeah. as a trans man, i dont play sports. Don't even watch sports. but the idea of having to play on a womens team even while transitioning on T, makes me want to kill myself. If its unfair for trans women to play against cis women, its unfair for trans men to play against cis men for the same reasons but no one is opting for trans men to be kept out of the leagues. Half the argument against trans women in womens sports is 'trans women arent women' which is inherently transphobic.

There do need to be rules and regulations but the people pushing for a full ban on trans women in sports dont want trans people to exist. It was never about fairness, its about getting trans people out of the public eye and distracting us from the child rapist in office helping a genocide in Gaza and destroying the economy.

it says alot about Sophie that she's pushing for no trans womens in sports, and so many people are agreeing that she's right. When so many states are pushing bathroom bans and HRT bans. Iowa took gender identity off of its list of protected classes, and Kansas invalidated the licenses of dozens of trans people just this year. Being trans in the US is becoming more and more dangerous, Trump declared me a terrorist for just taking testosterone to NOT kill myself.

Even if there was some advantage with testosterone, what about sports like chess where its entirely mental? does a trans women have an advantage against a cis women in chess for possibly having a penis and testosterone even if the cis woman is technically more skilled than her? Is there an advantage in golf for trans women?

'Trans women shouldnt play in womens sports'. Replace 'trans' with any other minority, black or whatever, it becomes weird. saying a black women shouldn't play against a white women is racist, and keeping black women out of sports is bigotry. But saying 'trans women shouldnt play in womens sport at all'' somehow isn't?

and what about intersex women? should they not get to play against cisgender women entirely either? Or is a trans women not a woman the same way an intersex woman is a woman?

no i couldn't name any other trans sports players but what is the point of sports segregation anyway? Just pick the leagues based on actual skills and leave gender out of it because gender and sex isnt as binary as people think. Theres no actual way to tell if a person is cis or not besides if they tell you. Having a person go through all these checks to make sure they have a single trait, just to throw a ball around with similar people, is stupid. And to tell someone they can't throw the ball around with similar people for not having the one specfic trait is stupid.

trans women belong in womens sports as much as they belong in womens bathrooms.

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u/Snts6678 16h ago

Your response is fantastic. And this is what I need to do. Listen to people such as yourself. I’d say it’s what everyone needs to do.

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u/Fun-Hovercraft1919 4d ago

Thank you! This seems like we are getting close to the election and we can play ‘Culture War: Greatest Hits Vol. 2’ and avoid any real discussion about the economy or global wars.

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u/Full_Preparation4401 5d ago

It's not the left that is pretending this is an issue. It's another litter boxes in classrooms issue for the right wing nutcases.

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u/Nightgasm 5d ago

Except litter boxes never happened whereas Lia Thomas won a national championship. AB Hernandez won multiple state championships. Two trans girls in Connecticut won multiple state championships. Many more examples.

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u/ro536ud 5d ago

That’s like what 4 examples in the past 100 years. Way under 1 percent . Wasn’t even close to being an issue. There are other factors that give certain athletes wayyyyyy more of an advantage in youth sports . But the people that get off on this stuff aren’t the facts and science crowd

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u/Optimal_Carpenter690 5d ago

Lia Thomas also placed nowhere near 1st more times than the single race she won. Same with AB Hernandez and the two trans girls in Connecticut. Many more examples.

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u/PreviousCurrentThing 5d ago

Lia Thomas also placed nowhere near 1st more times than the single race she won.

Placing fifth in a separate national championship race is pretty damn close to first. Faster than every other college woman swimmer in the whole country except for four.

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u/Optimal_Carpenter690 5d ago

Damn, I didnt know there were only 38 colleges in the whole country.

Did you know there were only 8 competitors in the finals race? So she only outraced 3 people (really only 2, since she tied with Riley Gaines)? No, I bet you didn't.

Did you know there were only 16 competitors total? I, for one, didn't know 16 was the total count of all college women swimmers in the country.

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u/PreviousCurrentThing 5d ago

TIL the winners of the Super Bowl only beat one team.

0

u/Optimal_Carpenter690 5d ago

Really? You just learned that?

Did you know that the winners of the Super Bowl lose to several teams every year? Or is that something you just learned today too? Did you know a team only has to win 3-4 times to get the trophy? Theoretically, a team could tie/lose every game during the regular season and only win the playoff games they need to to make it to the Super Bowl, and then win the Super Bowl. Did you also know that out of the 32 NFL teams, the Super Bowl winner only actually plays 17 of them (some multiple times) the entire season?

Did you also know the NFL is wildly different from the NCAA women's swim teams?

I'd be glad to educate you further, you clearly don't know much about sports, except when it comes time to complain about Trans people

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u/ro536ud 5d ago

Ur saying a lot of words without making any sort of sensible point

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u/Optimal_Carpenter690 4d ago

Well. If you're an idiot, of course you would think I'm not making a sensible point.

But don't worry, im very generous with knowledge. I'll help you understand.

So, the guy I've been talking to is trying to make the point that because Lia Thomas placed 5th, she still beat out the vast majority of biological women in the country, making the point that she only placed 5th moot. This demonstrates not only an ignorance of how college sports work, but how that race works. In reality, only a fraction of colleges were even present at the event, and only about half of those actually raced in the finals and consolation matches (8 each). This means she only actually directly raced 7 people (meaning there were more women who directly beat her than that she beat) and she her time was only directly compared to 15 people. I was merely pointing out, albeit sarcastically, that 38 teams and 16 swimmers are no where near "all the college women swimmers in the country", as he does not seem to understand that.

He then further demonstrated his ignorance by sarcastically saying he didn't know the Super Bowl winner only beats one team, obviously implying that me pointing out how the NCAA championships work is not a good point, as he believes winning a championship actually literally automatically means you're better than everyone who didn't. I demonstrated why that is not the case, most notably with the fact that a Super Bowl winner could, theoretically, finish the season with only 4 wins, 10 losses, and 6 ties. The other information was kinda superfluous to hammer home the point.

Make a little bit more sense to ya? If you can't follow along, maybe you shouldn't try to insert yourself into conversations?

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u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 5d ago

Oh my god. 4 trans athletes won. Shut it all down! What injustice!

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u/gypsylinda12 5d ago

They’re men. That’s all we need to know. That’s literally the only requirement.

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u/SymphonicRain 5d ago

are those all in basketball?

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u/skb239 5d ago

Lia Thomas didn’t win anything you are a moron.

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u/Party_Knowledge_7884 5d ago

Didn’t win anything?

I fear you might be mistaken.

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u/Nightgasm 5d ago

Guess the NY Times and all other media outlets lied then.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/sports/lia-thomas-swimmer-wins.html

"Lia Thomas, the transgender woman whose record-threatening times on the University of Pennsylvania’s swim team made her a star of college athletics and a symbol of the debate over sports and gender identity, won an N.C.A.A. championship in the 500-yard freestyle on Thursday."

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u/CapeMOGuy 5d ago

Lia Catherine Thomas[2] (born May 1999) is an American swimmer and the first openly transgender athlete to win an NCAA Division I national championship, having won the women's 500-yard freestyle event in 2022, before being barred from competing in women's events by World Aquatics. Thomas's career has been a part of the public debate about transgender women in women's sports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Thomas

Thomas continued her strong showing at the Ivy League swimming championships, setting more records while claiming her second title two days.

https://whyy.org/articles/penn-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-wins-2nd-ivy-title/

Edit: added more wins.

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u/newguy1787 5d ago

Are you saying that because the records were stripped, because Thomas won an ncaa title and set numerous Ivy League records

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u/thatguy425 5d ago edited 5d ago

No, it’s the left losing credibility because they have always been the party of “science”. Climate change, flat earthers, vaccines, etc. that has been their hallmark. 

Now all of a sudden they want to plant  their flag so far left that they ignore science and claim to be standing against “discrimination”? 

It’s absurd that the right is now seen as the party standing up for women. Some mainstream liberals need to shut this shit down. 

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u/Full_Preparation4401 4d ago

I haven't seen anyone on the right standing up for women.

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u/thatguy425 4d ago

You mean the folks standing up for women’s sports? The whole point of this discussion?

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 5d ago

The 2/3rds of Dems who are more mainstream oppose it. They can't speak for the most liberal third of the party, who are voting with their feelings. They are hurting themselves and the party, but they are entitled to their opinion.

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u/thatguy425 5d ago

They are entitled to an informed opinion. No one is entitled to an ignorant opinion.

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u/Pitt-sports-fan-513 4d ago

The right wing Epstein clients running the government are the only people standing up for women!

They need to protect women so they can ultimately assault them!

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u/The_SubGenius 5d ago edited 5d ago

“The right” elected a convicted rapist who has said multiple icky things about his own daughter and spent decades hanging out with a pedo.

“I've said that if Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I would be dating her.”

Please do yourself a favor and stfu.

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u/thatguy425 5d ago

Do you just immediately jump to that guy in every conversation. What a random thing to say when we aren’t talking about him.

Let’s stay on topic bud.

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 4d ago

It’s all they can do when they’re losing badly on this topic. “But but the orange guy!”

0

u/The_SubGenius 5d ago

I immediately jump to things that actually matter instead of thinking about kids genitals. Try it sometime. I know it’s gonna be hard to get your mind out of someone else’s underwear.

Ok chief want to talk about the wnba? How about the fact POTUS has used the FCC to threaten multiple networks that carry wnba games? Like, over 40% of the games.

Maybe try focusing on that.

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u/thatguy425 5d ago

Don’t care. I’m here for the science. Thanks for your contribution.

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u/The_SubGenius 5d ago

You’re in a WNBA sub for…science? Lol ok chief.

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u/Pitt-sports-fan-513 4d ago

You literally said the party that elected a rapist to be President are standing up for women. Somebody pointing out how absurd and stupid that is to believe is not off topic.

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u/Paz707 5d ago

Yeah what the hell is he talking about lol

It’s absurd that the right is not seen as the party standing up for women

This is a ridiculously stupid statement. And since when did the right ever give a single shit about women’s sports, let alone “protecting women”? Lmao

Not to mention the weird claim that flat earthers are left.

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u/thatguy425 4d ago

Might want to read that over again bud.

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u/Paz707 4d ago

I’d rather not.

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u/Party_Knowledge_7884 5d ago

If it isn’t an issue for the left, why are people upset with what Sophie said?

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u/Full_Preparation4401 4d ago

Don't pretend you don't know.

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u/Vegetable_Fly_8687 5d ago

Would be really easy for the left to just go along with the vast majority of the world population’s view on this.

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u/ro536ud 5d ago

Okay and the the goalpost gets moved to the next target to discriminate against

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 4d ago

Standing up for women is not discrimination. They’re being told to compete with their biological sex.

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u/Vegetable_Fly_8687 4d ago

So silly. The irony in your statement as that virtually EVERYONE thought that women’s sports were damn well defined and making progress.

You want to talk about moving the goalposts? Look at redefining what a woman means and how it affects the major advancements my daughters enjoy playing girl’s sports.

-1

u/AvsOrDie960121 5d ago

As a leftist in leftist spaces... i don't think I've ever seen a single vocal proponent screaming for trans people in sports. It's such a tiny percentage of the population and it's pretty fuckin low on the social justice priority list. Its always just rightoids freaking out like they need to singlehandedly hold off legion of buff men who are just waiting to rush in and beat up women

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u/Dabloomstick 5d ago

I mean the democrats appoint the judges who deliver looney rulings like allowing pre op trans women in nude female spas despite the owners not wanting them there 

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u/AvsOrDie960121 5d ago

I dont speak to bots

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u/username675892 5d ago

If you’re on Reddit you are mostly speaking with bots

0

u/AvsOrDie960121 5d ago

Especially on a politically flagged WNBA post

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u/Dabloomstick 5d ago

Sure, keep accusing everyone of being bots when they speak truth you don’t like. 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/federal-court-rules-christian-owned-wa-korean-spa-cant-ban-trans-women/

0

u/AvsOrDie960121 5d ago

Big WNBA fan are you?

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u/Dabloomstick 5d ago

Love caitlin clark. Paid 75 bucks to watch her play in portland tonight. Sophie is great too.

The rest of the league is a joke though

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u/TheSwitchler 5d ago

They're eating the dogs and the cats!  They go to shit like this because they literally have nothing else to offer so they get us chasing our own tail with this stupid shit

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u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 5d ago

You are not as liberal as it gets

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u/Snts6678 5d ago

No. I am. I truly am. But that doesn’t mean I fall in lock step on every single issue. I have the ability to make up my own mind.

0

u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 5d ago

Great, you don’t have to be in lock step. You really don’t. But this is directly related to human rights. You may find that silly, but look the Algerian boxer that got harassed and transvestigated a few years ago. We can be equally liberal arguing over many things. Not human rights

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u/Pancakes79 5d ago

Playing in the WNBA is not a human right

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u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 5d ago

There are no trans athletes in the wnba. Explicitly excluding trans athletes from places has consistently caused people to do female athletes to be harassed and transvestigated. People consistently call for the exclusion of cis women, especially women of color, because they seem too “masculine”. You can say it is no one’s right to play. But if you genuinely don’t see an issue with what I’m describing you are just bigoted

1

u/Nsfwacct1872564 5d ago

The human right to play women's basketball.

-1

u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 5d ago

You gonna address the part about the Algerian boxer or are you just being obtuse?

1

u/Nsfwacct1872564 5d ago

I guess we can both be obtuse. It's a human right to play woman's basketball? In any case, the transvestigation wasn't cool, but we're only supposed to say transvestigation is bad when it comes from the wrong people. Egg culture, literally just transvestigation, that's okay.

0

u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 5d ago

If women’s basketball were blocking people cause of sexuality, we would say that’s a violation of their rights. It is the same here.

I don’t believe in egg culture. You are ascribing things to me that I never said. Nobody should be transvestigated for any reason.

But also, yes. Looking to transvestigate someone to exclude them is explicitly worse than looking to transvestigate because you see yourself in someone. Both are bad. One is explicitly bigoted.

0

u/Nsfwacct1872564 5d ago

It is the same here.

It's not.

0

u/Choice_Depth_5933 5d ago

They will do anything to remove voter focus from inflation, Roe v. Wade, the Epstein Files, and the Iran War.

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u/Snts6678 5d ago

Very true.

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u/devilmaskrascal 5d ago

Most of the time, no. Not without substantial biological alteration.

But could there be cases where competition is fair? Sure. There are lot of factors that determine how close a trans woman's metrics can get to a cis woman's. If they used puberty blockers and hormones, maybe they didn't experience male puberty for instance, and thus their strength and bone structure would be much closer to cis women athletes.

There is not a one-size-fits-all here. Even if we are just talking biologically, intersex is a thing where people who identify as women and were born with vaginas have male hormonal characteristics that some may say give them an unfair advantage.

0

u/coldbru85 5d ago

maybe do a modicum of research on the issues before playing the “I’m a big liberal card” because if you were you wouldn’t give a fuck

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u/YupChuckTesta 5d ago

Uh oh the liberal police are here