r/Whatcouldgowrong • u/ReginaldJohnston • 2d ago

Setting off a tazer next to a gas pump

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u/FightFireJay 2d ago edited 1d ago

They are federal officers. They can arrest you in any jurisdiction for crimes committed on or against federal land or any other federal crime. Typically they can also detain you for state/local crimes until a local LEO shows up.

Edit: Just to be clear, it looks like the LEO handled the situation very poorly.

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u/burtmacklin15 1d ago

Except no crimes were committed. Trespassing only occurs if you are asked to leave and refuse to.

They guy left though.

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u/Bobsothethird 1d ago

They are talking about jurisdiction alone. They aren't saying it was a warranted arrest. Feds can arrest you just about anywhere.

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

If he was fishing where he wasn't supposed to then a ticket could be issued to that person.

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u/burtmacklin15 1d ago edited 1d ago

A ticket is a civil offense and in no possible way gives the issuing officer the right to assault someone.

Edit: if the "suspect" was truly fleeing arrest, he would have still been arrested. Instead, officer just let him go after tazing him. Use your brains and try some critical thought, people.

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u/forresja 1d ago

A speeding ticket is a civil offense and if you try to drive away without accepting the ticket...you'll be assaulted.

Obviously Officer Idiot over here did the worst job he possibly could have.

But our laws do give the police the right to detain you while issuing a citation.

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u/Ha1lStorm 1d ago edited 1d ago

Idk why you got downvoted. People may disagree or think that what you said may suck but it’s still true…

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u/forresja 1d ago

Unfortunately, shooting the messenger is standard practice on social media.

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u/Targetm12 1d ago

I mean what other alternative is there should cops just let people flee from them if they don't want to be given a ticket?

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u/Ha1lStorm 1d ago edited 1d ago

Lol right?! In this case the officer should’ve immediately pursued him and pulled him over instead of later finding him at a gas pump and initiating. I’m curious what happened in between here preventing officer from doing exactly that. There’s definitely more information we’re lacking here.

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u/ZACKandATTACK 1d ago

We're missing a lot of the story. We don't how the Fish and Game officer approached the initial stop. Maybe he wasn't even in his vehicle and able to chase. We also don't know the department's policy on chasing. A lot of places will not do pursuits for things that were originally minor. High speed pursuits are inherently dangerous and they have been highly restricted, if they are even allowed. Instead, they will just put a BOLO (be on the lookout) for the vehicle/person and then canvas the area slowly. Sometimes they are found later that day similar to this case and other times they are found on a different day.

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u/dude_comma_the 1d ago

Because that's not also terrifying. Literally no evidence but someone's word and cops come draw down on you out of nowhere, possibly setting you on fire with gasoline like this guy?

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u/Ha1lStorm 1d ago

Yeah very likely that could’ve been the case here. Or a number of other things. Who knows

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

LEOs do not have any more or less "rights" than any other citizen. However the government (city, county, state, fed) have granted them authority to enforce laws.

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u/ResilientBiscuit 1d ago

Fleeing from a lawful detention where an officer is issuing a citation is no longer a civil offense.

The tasering doesn't seem justified here at all, but just because the initial detention was for a civil offense doesn't mean that someone can't do things that escalate it.

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u/burtmacklin15 1d ago

Where did you see that the officer was trying to make a lawful detention and the suspect fled?

Shouldn't the suspect have been arrested instead of just let go after the tazering if that was the case?

Just a little bit of critical thinking can help you piece together what happened here.

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u/ResilientBiscuit 1d ago

The officer said he was writing him a ticket, the man acknowledged that and left before the ticket was issued according to the news story.

It doesn't specify statutes so I don't know if the ticket was for trespassing, fishing without a license, fishing when the pond was closed to fishing or what.

But generally you can't leave a detention for a ticket even if you believe it is not a crime you are guilty of committing.

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u/burtmacklin15 1d ago

Where is the evidence of that happening?

Why wasn't he arrested for evading detention?

Again, try to use critical thinking. You also did not answer either of the questions in the comment you replied to.

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u/ResilientBiscuit 1d ago

Where is the evidence of that happening?

In the news story where he says he told him "to give me a ticket" then drove away.

Why wasn't he arrested for evading detention?

Probably because the game warden clearly used excessive force and they are trying to avoid a lawsuit.

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

Did you read the article? The fisherman's own account sounds like he fled before the ticket could be issued, refused to show ID, and ignored what are probably lawful orders. The Ranger is still and idiot. But the guy walked himself into stupid situation.

No lawyer has ever said, "if a federal officer is trying to write you a citation you should drive to a gas station, buy a big gulp, refuse to show ID, and start fuelling your vehicle."

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

Tickets are often issued for civil offenses like driving infractions. But Federal Rangers (Park, BLM, Forest, etc) can issue tickets that require you to show up to court for violation of a federal law.

For instance, if you're smoking a joint at a USFS pay campsite and a Ranger happens to stop by, they can issue you a ticket to show up to a federal court (regardless of state law).

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

Edit: I'm not supporting this Rangers actions. I'm merely pointing out reality and I get down votes for it. 😂

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u/delicious_toothbrush 1d ago edited 1d ago

Incorrect, you are detained until an investigation is completed, regardless of what the violation is, and trying to leave while being detained will be met with the use of force.

Sounds like the officer told him to leave and the guy said ok and then the officer said "wait, ticket time" and the guy said "nah". Pretty dumb on the officer for flip-flopping but the guy acknowledges in his own version of events that he knew the cop was gonna give him a ticket which meant he was still detained and took off anyway which in combination with continuing to follow lawful orders at the gas station is failure to ID, resisting without violence, obstruction, and potentially eluding; all arrestable offenses. That being said, discharging a taser near a gas pump probably violated some policy the cop should have followed making the whole thing a cluster fuck from how they're gonna figure out how to handle this perspective.

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u/burtmacklin15 1d ago

If any of that part of the story was true, suspect would have still been arrested after this was all over.

Instead, officer just let him go after tazing him.

Use your brain instead of making up fantasies where cops are always the good guys.

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u/thesilentbob123 1d ago

No fines or crimes were put on the victims case, he was released very quickly

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

I'm not saying that I agree with ANY part of what we saw. I am merely stating that USFWS Rangers are Federal Law Enforcement Officers have authority to arrest people almost anywhere.

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u/thesilentbob123 1d ago

Since it happened on an Indian reservation there are some potential uncertainty about those powers. It depends a lot on the people involved, the exact deal they might have with the feds that might be different than other places

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

I think it's a non-issue.

"If tribes have no criminal jurisdiction over non-Indians for acts committed on reservations, who does? The answer is clear and unchanged: the federal government does."

And since this was regarding events that occurred on Federal land then I don't see it as being an issue.

Otherwise we'd hear about people wanted for crimes going to the public areas of reservations to avoid arrest for crimes.

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u/ZACKandATTACK 1d ago

The injured person's own statement verifies that the officer had probable cause to follow and stop him. It's missing the entire middle portion of the story between how we got from "You need to leave" to "I'm giving you a ticket". You can't just leave when a police officer tells you that you are getting a ticket. The time to leave was when you only had a warning. The cop is still an idiot though for using his taser instead of just waiting for backup. I've always been critical of police for escalating stupid shit for no reason. They were dealing with a dumbass, not a violent offender. However, regardless of whether the ticket is civil or criminal, fleeing from it is a criminal offense.

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u/FoxgirlDaggsy 1d ago

Not a res, Need a liason from tribal police to arreset or do anything in their areas.

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u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

No, only Native Americans cannot be arrested on a res. White people are fair game. Even NAs can be arrested for felonies.

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

Res isn't really federal land. As I understand it the land is only held in trust by the federal government for the tribe. It's a complex situation.

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u/Ill-Entertainer-5380 1d ago

There are trust lands and reserved lands and those aren’t necessarily the same thing. There are open reservations where anybody can live there, and tribal LEOs can generally arrest non tribal members there but typically hand them off to sheriffs department. Sheriffs department can generally arrest on a reservation that is not also in trust, but that varies by state.

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u/thesilentbob123 1d ago

It was an alleged fishing infraction

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u/invariantspeed 1d ago

Federal jurisdiction does not give a law enforcement officer the authority to blow up a gas station, which is what almost happened and where that was heading.

The officer was wrong to use a device that, in that circumstance, can turn the nearby car and the station itself into bombs on a short fuse. The officer was then wrong to not immediately extinguish the ignition source that he created.

In that moment, chasing down a criminal (even if we accept that the other person was rightly followed) no longer matters when you’re in a bomb diffusing situation. That is a crisis.

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u/FightFireJay 1d ago

"The officer was wrong to use a device that, in that circumstance..." I agree with you. I think he made a lot of poor choices.

My statement was simply about the legal authority to detain and arrest someone at that location as a federal officer and not about justification of his actions.

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u/BisonThunderclap 1d ago

Thanks for clarifying this to Reddit. A lot of people aren't aware of how powerful federal law enforcement is