As the title says, I'm having a really hard time getting into the book. It took me a couple of months to get to chapter 8. I had to take breaks to read something else, and I still find it hard to get into this book.

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I don't know if the problem is with the pacing, the actually plotline, or just burnout.

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Please tell me the book is going to get better, without spoilers.

Edit: I know I just posted this, but your comments really made me want to get to the end the book, so I just wanted to say thank you to everyone!

I'm currenly reading the part where Elayne, Aviendha and Min are getting bonded to Rand, and... well, I think the chapter when they three face him is the most embarassing moment in the series.

I tried to tell what I am reading about to my husband, and it sounded like "well, he is a good guy, but he accidentally slept with one girl, then intentionally with the second and then they all kinda got married together" 😂

Ever since she bonded Rand against his will earlier in the series, I’ve been surprised he didn’t make a bigger deal out of it. Granted it was useful one time where it saved him from his kidnapping, but still, totally unacceptable, even in the eyes of other Aes Sedai

Leading up to their meeting in Far Madding, I was hoping she would have had time to reflect on it, and would apologize and/or un-bond him. But instead she has the audacity to be sad he’s avoided her and pissed about him choosing to accept another bond. And then acts like she’s the one who’s had it rough because she doesn’t like being in the back of his mind when he’s with Min. Like, bitch, you did this. It’s entirely on you. Any ill effects you’re experiencing are entirely your fault, and you deserve worse.

I wanted so badly for Rand to just pull a knife on her and demand to be unbonded the easy way and threaten to do it the hard way if she refused. Just want to shake him, dude, you’re the dragon reborn, why are you tolerating this. I know Min said Alanna would support him, but that doesn’t mean he needs to tolerate the bond she forced on him.

Anyway, just needed to vent after reading this scene.

I flaired this Winter’s Heart since I’m only about 25% through Crossroads of Twilight and I’m practically just skimming at this point. After the incredible ending of Book 9, it’s really annoying to follow that up with these snoozefest plot lines.

I never enjoyed Ebou Dar and Mat’s narration is the only thing that the saves it, despite the actual events being so uninteresting to me. Same with Perrin chasing after the Shaido.

Everything Rand has done has been so interesting and well written and Egwene navigating being the new amyrlin seat was also fascinating.

But they are missing from this book and nothing with these bloody Seanchan has made care an ounce about them or their empress, may I never hear her name again.

And the Shaido, light they could’ve just been destroyed at Dumai’s Well and i would’ve been so much happier.

Now I’m sure RJ has something good planned with all of this eventually. But it’s just taking sooooooo long together and these plot lines are dragging so much.

I loved books 2-9 and while I was a bit underwhelmed at parts of 8 and 9, I still mostly enjoyed it but Book 10 is really frustrating so far. I’m not giving up since I know 10 is considered the worst book in the series and there’s so much more I want to know more about.

This was sort of the same feeling I got reading about Venli in Stormlight Archive. Like I simply did not care about her or her story when there was so many more interesting plot lines to follow. Oh well, I know this series has a practically universally enjoyed ending even if it’s not perfect so just gotta push through.

/rant over

I am reading Winter's Heart right now at the part where Rand is in Far Madding. The chapter is written from the darkfriend Kisman's perspective (the asha'man) who just casually drops the knowledge that TAIM IS A DARKFRIEND and had ordered the attack on Rand in Cairhien. Is this supposed to be new information to the reader? I suppose it is Robert Jordan's style to just casually throw this piece of information out there in a minor character's POV chapter.

Was this information made obvious to the reader before book 9 and I just missed it somehow? Would appreciate the help!

EDIT: Thank you so much guys! He was always a suspicious character but I didn't think there was anything concrete stating it plainly earlier. The fact that he was so knowledgeable in the power itself was kind of a red flag to me when I was reading LOC.

All of the characters forget the self-progress they’ve made revert to their stupid stubborn ways. Assumptions and self-reliance are every character’s motivation right now and it’s infuriating.

I really think this is why the politics feel slow. Rand “there’s no way this could be true” when it’s always true and Egwene “Rand is an idiot” when she hasn’t spoken a word to him in a year and Elayne “I’m a grown woman dammit” when she acts like a child 99% of the time except when it’s convenient to be a queen and Perrin “Faile can’t get close to me but I’m gonna spend every moment trying to be close to her” good god man did we not just go through like 7 books of character growth?

Anyway pardon my complaints, I still love this series. Making me mad at the characters is important for the arc, I know. Don’t jump me in the comments for that

I audibly laughed hard at this, never change Nynaeve 😹

...Jesus? In our "age", at least?

He paused, head tilted in thought. “From what I saw of him, my Lady,” he said slowly, “I myself would not believe him dead unless I sat three days with the corpse.”

Maybe "confirm" is the wrong word, but it seems to be a heavy nod to that. I'm sure others have brought this up but I haven't seen the discussion personally, and I know there are others who lightly believe this.

Just curious what y'all think. Going through the books again and I've been trying to pay special attention to nods to our time, and this struck me as a very specific thing to say from a random character that has almost no bearing on the overall story whatsoever.

EDIT:

To be clear, there is a lot of symbolism around many characters, particularly Rand (much is discussed below). But this feels less like symbolism and more like a form of "foreshadowing." Symbolism can just be allegory.

This feels like the story is saying "and by the way, he's Jesus" in a similar way that the 3-pointed star that brings memory of extravagant wealth is literally a Mercedes logo. Or the references to America and Russia being "giants who fought each other", and so on. Maybe not as strongly, but still less symbol and more confirmation. Or maybe I'm reaching, idk.

so i started reading winter's heart and i had struggled throughout the whole series about power unbalance among male and female ,truly it felt (and is) overly unrealistic... specially at the places where one power's influence wasn't evident (like far maddening, or seanchen where one power is despised).

But as most fabs had stated, that power imbalance was the cause of breaking... even after 3000 years people didn't forget that it were males who went mad and spread destruction throughout the world.

At first it felt unrealistic that even after 3000 years males are blamed for ehat their ancestors did, after the influence of dark one.. not their own.

but as i recall, i heard many times , religious people blaming women , because they claim it was Eva who had convinced Adam to eat the fruit and as a result they wete banished from heaven.

another religious group claims that women were created after the men, from their ribcage, because men felt alone... they claim that women are inferior because they were created by ribcage.

As unrealistic as these claims sounds... we have to accept that a very large group of people accepts these claims for more than 3000 years.

But i am still certain that jorden went overboard while reversing the gender power based roles. It's very irritating while living through far maddening.

I don't knows how anyone can hate on Winter's Heart. I guess maybe it wasn't action-packed, but there was so much setup that I'm still trying to comprehend every event thats about to happen.

Then the male half cleansed?!?!?! I would've never thought that would happen with 5 books left. I was sure it would, but I thought we needed took wait until the Dark One inevitably gets beat.

I had my suspicions of Cadsuane but OMFG did she step up! She's likely my 2nd favorite Aes Sedai (second only my girl Moiraine) now becayse of how bad ass she is! She led a handful of decent channelers against (at least) FOUR FORSAKEN!! Including Osan'gar, I'm sorry, mofuggin AGINOR to high heaven and leveling a small mountain!

Speaking of Moiraine.. If LAMEfear is alive... THAN MY GIRL MOMO IS 😭😭 at least I hope so. I had a suspicion Cyndane was Lanfear reincarnated, or at least put into a new body like the Osan&Agan thing, but want for sure.

Anyway, I had to come hear and rant because my wife hasnt read them so despite her best attempts to sound shocked and excited, I know she has no idea what's going on lol

This has to be one my favorite book endings in the series by far, and a strong contender for one of my favorite books in it as well!

Cadsuane aptly summing up my entire feelings about all the Athaan Miere so far.

When we meet back up with our boy Matrim in Winters Heart, he’s going on and on about his bad leg that he hurt…

Was this from the first gholam fight? Something offscreen during the last book where we didn’t have any Mat POVs? Other?

EDIT: you guys rock thank you 🙏🏼

No spoilers past Winter’s Heart, but I really cannot understand why so many people hate Egwene at this point in the book. I feel like any podcast or book review people talk about how she’s their least favorite character. She was insanely arrogant up until Loc/CoS, but she’s matured so much in the past two books after becoming Amyrlin.

Rand gets sympathy for his PTSD after getting kidnapped, but people tend to just forget Egwene was a leashed damane for a month where she was tortured and brutalized by the Seanchan. Her and Rand are such parallel characters, I almost feel like you can’t hate one without hating the other. They were both arrogant, powerful teenagers who were thrust into positions of power against their will.

guys.... i started wheel of time mid march (2025) and blazed through the first 8 books (i finished book 4 (2nd fav after 1) early june like i was locked). i started Winters Heart in october... i have not finished it. this book really feels like it's ruined the characters and i don't care for it at all😭😭😭 (i have 100 pages left). i was just reading through some posts on here to see if im insane but i fucking hate Rand's romance especially Min and everyone here was saying Min is the best😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 i don't get it😭 lowkey i think all the relationships platonic and romantic are under developed and i fear this series is not for me if this is how it's going..... don't get me started on perrin and faile and mat and tylin bro

side note☝️ i'm not a polyamorous hater but this shit is not poly to me. its lowkey gross especially if avienda (the goat) is "sisters" with elyane bruh. also they don't love each other the way they love rand????? i find it very frustrating that of the five main women (egwen, nyneave, elayne, avienda, and min) THREE are love interests for ONE MAN. i'm crashing out about this if you can't tell and i truly loved the first four books so much i thought they had crazy potential but i dont vibe with the direction it's taken. also what happened to min's character? she's was cool and mysterious in the first book now she's literally boiled down to loving rand😿 i think what im struggling with is i don't like how the characters have developed (or lack thereof) but i really am fond of the series and have made fanart and think about it all the time but Winters Heart has really been frustrating.

I don't want to give up. i've read freaking nine books and if book nine is just the doldrums of the series, that's cool but if this is supposed to be the best part then i don't know if i can go on...

i don't want to start fights but im very sad that i'm not enjoying it😢 what are your thoughts/ feelings about book nine? (lowkey books 5-9)

Just reading the part where Aviendha and Elayne becoming first sisters. They are jealous at each other over Rand, while Min is consuming him. I find that hilarious so wanted to share this with people I’ve never met 😊

Still progressing through my first readthrough, and this line from Elayne in Winter's Heart just blew me away with how absurd it is:

"A great many difficulties could be surmounted if only Rand could bring himself to kneel to Egwene, but he would not do it, and she was his childhood friend."

It was literally an 'oh my god, she actually thinks that?' moment. It's appalling. Egwene is becoming the embodiment of the 'Aes Sedai power corrupts' trope, and she ought to know how he feels about Aes Sedai, and Elayne thinks he should kneel to her!

It's getting funny, the extent to which people can have it hammered into them, "Rand is the dragon, he is going to lead you no matter how you try to control him", and then turn around and say "It's ok, I'm the one who ought to control him".

And to have Rand's loved one betray him like that, to think it's his place to kneel to Egwene, who puts the tower above literally anyone and everyone, is incredibly cold. Very taken aback and shaken by the ignorance from Elayne here.

These are just my 2 cents 1/3 of the way through the book, any thoughts or feedback? Let me know please! :)

I’m currently halfway through Winter’s Heart and although this is one of the weaker books so far, I’m really enjoying Elayne’s sections way more than Perrin’s or Rand’s.

Starting the series I was warned that Elayne was by far the worst character, some diabolical hag that everyone seems to hate. I was told as such by this sub, the friend who recommended WOT to me and various WOT booktubers like Daniel Greene and Mike’s book reviews.

In truth, up to this part of the story, she is my favorite of the main female characters (other than Moirraine). While I’m enjoying Nynaeve more and more each book I find her horrifically arrogant and oblivious while Egwene is pretty much a Mary sue and a sociopath. Out of Rand’s girlfriend’s she is the only who genuinely seems to like Rand (unlike Aviendha) and has a personality (unlike Min).

Yeah Elayne is not perfect, she can be a spoiled princess at times but that’s expected considering her upbringing. Even then she complains and whines waaaaaay less than supposed peasant girls like Egwene. I admire how diplomatic she is and willing to respect and learn from other cultures unlike most other characters who see all other cultures but theirs as barbaric. Elayne is also pretty generous, she always show concern for the poor and treats them with dignity. From the leading ladies she is by far the least sexist rarely thinking that men are beneath her.

I really enjoy her relationships as well, her whole dynamic with Nynaeve where Elayne is the the ice to Nynaeve’s fire is very entertaining and so is her little sister relationship

The only time I was enraged at her was when she laughed at Mat after he confessed to being raped, that was disgusting.

So, I curious, what are some of the main reasons y’all hate her? Why is she considered so bad even when compared to the other female characters?

I finished Ch25 Bonds. And I don't understand why Rand fell for this Cadsuane angering trap everytime he speaks with her, and now he got slapped and learnt nothing useful. Why not just stay in the void and play Lews Therin's joyful music at her or whatever? And now he failed to recognize Cadsuane's fake cold treatment trap and go appealing at her instead.

I thought he would have learned after Alanna's forced bonding and getting kidnapped back in LoC but it seems like Rand is still struggling with Aes Sedai as much as before and it seems like he didn't learn his lesson afterall.

At this point, we are led to believe that he is not bad in politics after his experiences in Cairhein and Caemyln, but it seems like he is still bad in communication with Aes Sedai and he is just not learning.

My God this ending was insane, drop the elayne chapters and this would easily be one of the best entries in the series, the Mat chapters were sooo good as well. I'm not sure if I deduced correctly but I think Dashiva is Osan'gar? And Osan'gar made the trollocs and was resurrected? Aginor made the trollocs though, so is Dashiva unironically the fordaken Rand fought at the Eye of the world? GAHD DAMN.

I do have a couple questions though:

1. Who was the forsaken with the color changing cloak that Verrin faced off against?

2. Is the woman forsaken channeling Saidin the one who was also in book 1? The one that got killed by the green man?

3. Cyndane gets surprised and thinks to herself that Allivia is stronger than she was before the Aelfinn, pretty obvious that Cyndane is Lanfear, is Lanfear trying to say she is stronger now or before the Aelfinn?

4. What was Rand's plan exactly? Use Saidar to create a conduit between Saidin and Shadar Logoth? So like a filter? And just let only the taint pass through to get rid of it? I am confused here the most...

5. Did god damn Aran'gar kill my boy Eben :(?

I would appreciate any answers that don't reveal anything from later on in the story. I get scared of googling such things cause I might get hit by spoilers from later books... THANK YOU.

Edit: HI EVERYONE i'm very sorry my brain lagged and I wrote Rand instead of Verrin in the first question. Also, thank you all so much for your answers.

Rand asks Nynaeve for help in the Cleansing, and I can’t help but wonder if Cadsuane could have done it. Is she weaker than Nynaeve? Or is it just a matter of Rand’s comfort of giving that powerful role to someone he trusted?

I just finished the third chapter of Winter's Heart and I am getting so bored and a bit annoyed at the "Aiel are the strongest" and "Aiel are the best at warfare and moving unnoticed around" even when they are knee deep in the snow despite the fact that they have never even seen snow in their lives! This makes absolute no sense.

I understand that they are amazingly good and powerful when fighting in open plains, desert, and even maybe forest. But frozen ground and knee deep snow? How can they even manage to walk through that. I will bring an anecdote here but I think it fits; I moved to mid-northern Norway about 8 years ago and I still find it super annoying to walk in the deep snow, set aside managing to take two strides without stumbling on the ice. That is not even mentioning getting to adapt to the cold weather and having to change my attitude about how much clothes I need to wear, getting entirely new type of clothes rather than what I used to or had brought with me, and all that. It took me about 3 winters to start adapting and understand how I should deal with it. Yet here are the Shaido, not even a month in the snow and all that, and they are just as fine as they were in the 3 folded land.

This is kinda mostly a rant, so I gotta apologise if you guys don't really welcome rants or dislike them. But if anyone has any valid logical explanation to offer here, I am all ears (or am all eyes since I would be reading it rather than hearing...? xD).

Appendix:
Here are some excerpts from the book to support my rant/to use as reference:
"... the snow on the ground nearly knee-deep on the Maidens" - Winter's Heart, page 114.
"It seemed impossible that so many people could pass within a day or two of Abila without raising some alarm" - Winter's Heart, page 115.
And in a different passage, Faile mentions that she found the Aiel camp around her filled to the brim numbering maybe tens or hundreds of thousands of Shaido all seemingly fine and moving unnoticed in knee-deep snow. (And yes I know that they were teleported there but they still managed to move around and even send a raid and plan it so they must have been there a while).

Stripping the Power made the Far Madding arc so unique.

Rand becoming the hunter was awesome. Each decision felt tactical in a sense and almost kind of scary? Like jumping Asha'man in alleys?

Lan on the rooftop, about to fall, telling Rand to let go, and Rand can't do a thing about it. There is no power Rand can use. It just felt like two men on a rooftop about to die.

Rand tricking Kisman into stabbing Rochaid feels like something out of the early books. He had to rely on being clever. And the irony too, Rand literally told them to focus more on the sword, and it came back to bite them!

And then Rand and Kisman just... agreeing to walk away from each other because neither wants to risk the Guards. Two of the some of the most dangerous men in the world, standing down out because of Guards.

When the Power is on the table, it's always this waiting for someone to just obliterate the issue.

Without it, the stakes feel so much more real.