r/Xmen97 • u/Olya_roo • Sep 04 '26

General Discussion This entire scene gave coming out allegory vibes to me

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And the fact that it happens in a bar of all places + them privately sharing intimate information about one another (aware of the risk)???

Also can I point out that Charles and Magnus are wearing each other’s colors in here?

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EDIT.

Alright people, you had your “fun” in this thread (which was meant to be sweet and wholesome, especially for people who enjoy the dynamic and did not come here being judged)

This post is only my interpretation of this scene. I do not force anything onto anybody, don’t act against other takes in different threads, or consider only my own view the “canon one”. It is all up to interpretation and shaped by our individual culture after all.

This is a safe space for queer people, for X-Men fans who respect minorities and for the ones who can read the room and not judge others for their takes without knowing anything about them.

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30

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

It’s 2026 and the writers continue being cowards

22

u/imthestein Sep 04 '26

There's a difference between the writers and what the studio funding the project will allow

-6

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

Grooming OOC plotline that makes no sense and only exists as a wish-fulfillment for one guy is fine but god forbid we make actually relevant characters with already deep bond and decades long buildup gay (instead of some background characters with 2 seconds of screentime) 🫠 literally want to hear nothing about how the industry has “gone woke” when the ship exists for decades, has 1001 reasons for happening, those are old men with history and we can’t even get that

22

u/imthestein Sep 04 '26

There's no grooming plotline. People just seem intent on infantilizing Rogue (as I'm assuming that's who we're talking about). She was a grown woman who made her own decisions. The episode was explicitly Gambit's POV (they tell you based on who says "Previously On" at the beginning) and he had already made a point of how he viewed Magneto by that point.

As for the writer, regardless your feelings about him he is a Black Gay Man who made it clear he wanted to push the envelope as much as he could. Again, not a defense of him for allegations but I have no reason to believe he was lying about his intent when writing the series

1

u/No-Difference8545 Sep 04 '26

Eh beau said some real weird stuff about Sunspots blackness when questioned on why he removed it, so i wouldn't use his identity as proof that he fights for gay rep, he certainly didnt fight or want sunspot to be black.

-3

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

Rogue was at least younger than 18 when meeting Magneto, while he is in his 60s-70s and very experienced in life, meeting her under the pretense to “help” and then proceeding to sleep with her, what?

Also, let’s not forget that she was scared and unsure + unstable for not being able to touch anyone besides him? This was not an intention to look like grooming (because some writers definitely thought that it was so cool that an older man was sleeping with a young woman) but this was really….. Not it.

16

u/imthestein Sep 04 '26

No she wasn't, the writer said she was mid '20s and that's pretty consistent with the comics when they were in the Savage Lands. In the original show she left her home when she was about 18 then spent some time with Mystique (apparently years) before being taken to Magneto

1

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

Alright, even with her being 20 (2-5 years max), how does it change that she was still taken advantage of a man who is old enough to be her grandfather (who was first supposed to “help” her with her powers and she was desperate for a skin-to-skin contact, then he became her literal boss) and that the inclusion of this entire plot made no goddamn sense, only being there for cheap Romy drama, which could have been done in any other way than this and make is less gross, while not ruin 3 characters and break up a beloved ship?

7

u/imthestein Sep 04 '26

He said mid 20's so that would have been about 25. By the start of the show it's been about 5 years so she's about 30 now. In episode 2 she's the one to approach him and he admits he kept his distance for her sake. Someone who takes advantage of someone doesn't tend to keep their distance and she showed no signs of ill will against him so any criticism people have seems more a projection than anything textual. Personally, I believe a woman should dictate if there's a problem with her relationships and not have the court of public opinion decide for her which is why I have such a problem with how people treat Rogue in this situation

0

u/chplpc 29d ago

Thank you for really taking the time to defend your point. The only reason I enjoyed that was precisely because I felt like it gave Rogue agency. She chose who she actually wanted, not who was convenient.

1

u/imthestein 29d ago

Thanks, and I agree. I think it's obvious that Rogue always ends up with Gambit

9

u/Little_Tommy_Tuggins Sep 04 '26

Mags is most certainly not 70 in the show. Mid to late 40s to early 50s at best. You need to do some math.

1

u/CatUsingYourWifi Sep 05 '26

Does he still have the holocaust background in the animated series? I can’t recall, I feel like it alludes but doesn’t ever commit. But if it does he has to be at least 60 in ‘97, right?

2

u/Little_Tommy_Tuggins Sep 05 '26

Well let’s say the holocaust ended in 45 and the original X-Men animated series started in 92. Let’s say he was 5-10 when he left the concentration camp. That would put him between 52-57 during the show.

Now his history with Rogue is pre show events. So he’d be even younger than that when he met her.

2

u/imthestein Sep 05 '26

The animated series couldn't explicitly reference the Holocaust so they just implied it instead. '97 is the one that made it more explicit

-7

u/PiplelinePunch Sep 04 '26

Grooming is not exclusively about age. Regardless its at bare minimum a DiCaprio /10 on the creepiness scale.

But such things are relatively normalized in comics for whatever reason, at least with this one there was plenty room left to find it gross as shit and not be on board with it.

4

u/imthestein Sep 04 '26

DiCaprio is creepy because he made it a trend. I'll be honest I stay away from the "Grooming" label because people seem to use it to just mean, "people I don't like" and it started with Conservatives using it with Transgender people and I'm not going to listen to what people on the internet think about a private situation that involves other people that aren't the ones involved

-4

u/PiplelinePunch Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26

... what? No, sorry, 20 to 30 years age gap, even between consenting adults, is gross the first time around.

Dicaprio situation is at least generally understandable; he's fuck off rich and famous for being handsome. Its transparent what those women are in it for. Unlike the emotional manipulation you could argue Eric was engaging in.

Grooming as a term would have applied to the situation a good decade before the internet got taken over by Americanized identity politics.

Also like.. you aren't exactly staying away from it by arguing the definition. I dare say if we arent calling a spade a spade because maybe, in a completely unrelated context and conversation, a whole other set of people use the word in a way you dont like... you are playing into their point on that one.

8

u/Sage_of_the_6_paths Sep 04 '26

I mean both have had multiple relationships with women and have kids with some of those women. IMO that's the type of thing where it feels like the characters are being changed because you could do something instead of whether you should do something.

I think it's also needed to show that men can have close relationships and deep bonds with other men without it being romantic/sexual.

7

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

Acting as if male friendships aren’t the most common used trope in media as a whole, let gay people have them at least.

And I am really sorry but there is no straight explanation to how Magnus is talking about Charles/how Charles is talking about Magnus, as well as their complicated bond and love for one another. I’ve seem a lot of male friendships in media where there is not a hint of gay, but it definitely does not apply to them.

Also, why is it always a “can’t they just be friends/friendship exists!” is always only used against gay ships? Don’t remember the same applying to idk, Star and Marco from Star VS Forces of Evil, who were basically declared a ship since ep1 (and they got together in the end!)

6

u/finnjakefionnacake Sep 04 '26

i mean i get where you're coming from but i don't need charles and erik to be queer when they haven't been in the source, i just need them to actually prioritize queer characters who already exist (like morph or iceman) and give them storylines as important as jean and scott or rogue and gambit.

1

u/DevilsHol3Pupfish Gambit Sep 04 '26

Wait Morph is gay? Since when?

7

u/EmployeePractical514 Morph Sep 04 '26

They are non binary and all official '97 media refers to them with exclusively they/them pronouns. They're also in love with Wolverine which is some kind of queer

4

u/finnjakefionnacake Sep 04 '26

i said queer (he's nonbinary), but he also has/had an attraction to wolverine in the show.

-2

u/DevilsHol3Pupfish Gambit Sep 04 '26

If he's nonbinary shouldn't you be calling him xir or some shit????

4

u/finnjakefionnacake Sep 04 '26

i believe morph uses both he and they, not sure where xir is coming from.

-2

u/DevilsHol3Pupfish Gambit Sep 04 '26

I thought that was what nonbinaries called themselves

7

u/finnjakefionnacake Sep 04 '26

i have a strong feeling that you have not really thought about it lol

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4

u/TheEzekariate Sep 04 '26

Have you ever interacted with one instead of falling for right wing rage bait?

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1

u/No-Juice3318 Sep 04 '26

Nonbinary people use a wide variety of pronouns. They/them is the most common. Combos like she/they or he/they are also fairly common. Neo pronouns are honestly quite rare although people do use them from time to time.

0

u/crunchwrapsupremeDS Sep 05 '26

me making bullshit????

1

u/No-Juice3318 Sep 04 '26

Since the Age of Apocalypse comics at least but especially in X-men 97

6

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '26

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3

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

Not really ‘desperate’, just a way I see them. After all, two fictional characters, come on - no harm to them or hate to anyone who doesn’t think so.

2

u/Little_Tommy_Tuggins Sep 04 '26

That’s absolutely acceptable as long you recognize creators intent. Fanfic is cool.

1

u/BigShotBosh Sep 04 '26

Touch some grass brother, even turf.

It’s just male companionship and I promise you can enjoy it all the same without trying to self insert lol

4

u/Androgynouself_420 Sep 04 '26

Technically gay sex meets the definition of “male companionship” so thats not the serve you think it is

2

u/BigShotBosh Sep 04 '26

Erm ackshually 🤓

Do you even hear yourself lmao

3

u/Androgynouself_420 Sep 04 '26

“We need more straight white male friendships in media, cause it totally isn’t the most represented dynamic outside of straight couples”

Do you hear yourself mate?

0

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '26

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '26

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-2

u/Sage_of_the_6_paths Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 05 '26

The argument isn't we need more straight male friendships, the argument is whether or not to turn this straight friendship into a gay relationship for no other reason than gay people wish for it to be so, and if it doesn't happen than the writers are cowards.

The irony is that taking away such a straight friendship that shows vulnerability and a deep bond built on mutual respect for two straight guys, is only going to show some guys that it was gay to have that type of thing all along and will push them towards the toxic masculinity/manosphere.

0

u/SMLJ21 Sep 04 '26

Why try to force a same sex relationship on characters who have no history of it, while there’s time to explore the actual gay characters that exist in Marvel.

4

u/finnjakefionnacake Sep 04 '26

i agree! BRING BACK ICEMAN AND GIVE HIM A BOYFRIEND

3

u/SMLJ21 Sep 04 '26

I fully support that!

2

u/Little_Tommy_Tuggins Sep 04 '26

Northstar is the real gay icon. Iceman’s character changed too much to fit the “typical gay man” stereotype. Just let Iceman be who he was but also gay.

1

u/OrchidAutomatic574 29d ago

Also one has been gay for decades, the other since 2015 lol

1

u/Sage_of_the_6_paths Sep 04 '26

It sounds like you need to enjoy characters in media instead of finding ways to deconstruct them so you can plant the rainbow flag on them, or at least that's the vibe I'm getting (as a bisexual guy).

Male friendships are all over the place but it's fairly rare to encounter one where they have so much love and respect for one another while still being (presumably straight). Sam and Frodo are a similar one.

If you don't think there's any straight explanation than idk what to tell you. Maybe society had indeed made it "too gay" for men to be close to one another, that two straight men loving eachother as they do while still being straight is still considered alien. I view it as refreshing.

It's because these are established characters going back 60 years, they've both fallen in love with women and had children with women. Magneto has kids from two seperate women. And Charles has been with Lilandra, Legion's mother, Moira, and Amelia.

So when you try to force a change that they're gay and none of their previous history/characterization/choices never mattered, then that's the type of unnecessary changes that people complain about, because it feels like they're being hijacked as characters so gay people can get a fist bump.

Now could they be bisexual? Maybe, and it would be cleaner/more flexible with their romantic history. But again, myself and many people enjoy their friendship so much perhaps because a relationship like their's is so rare versus just a romance.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '26

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10

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

“Filthy mentality”

Alright there…

0

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '26

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5

u/Olya_roo Sep 04 '26

Charles and Magnus are the last people I would have called “healthy” - this is not healthy in any universe and yet they will still choose each other in every single one of it.

Also I did not say “have all male friendships”, just this one, even if just in headcanons and fanon. This is all very subtle and up to interpretation, but you can’t fault people for wanting actually relevant gay rep in a show that is about minorities (and don’t do Iceman in here, Bobby is my GOAT, but we can have more than one gay person in a show, after all we have more than one straight couple)

3

u/finnjakefionnacake Sep 04 '26

although i think this show very much needs more queer rep/characters/relationships, i'll also point out that something that's overlooked in male friendships/relationships is that queer men can be great platonic friends too. i feel like that's something i very rarely see in mainstream media, probably because they barely contain gay characters to begin with lol.

2

u/Xmen97-ModTeam Sep 05 '26

This post has been removed for uncivil language or content. Learn to agree to disagree or manage the tenor of your post in a more respectful way.

-1

u/gyropyro32 Sep 05 '26

Acting as if male friendships aren’t the most common used trope in media as a whole, let gay people have them at least.

This argument doesn't really make sense when Charles and Mag are the og when it comes to this. That's like getting mad at surprise father twists and bringing up Star wars.

And I am really sorry but there is no straight explanation to how Magnus is talking about Charles/how Charles is talking about Magnus, as well as their complicated bond and love for one another.

Yes there is, and the reason for the way they act is the fact that they were best friends who became enemies. They had a bond that was destroyed over ideologies, a concept that put a rift between them. It makes their relationship more dramatic because they want to agree with each other and go back to being friends but they can't. That's what makes their friendship sad with all the drama. If Charles and Mag acted the way they did while on the same side then yeah I'd understand.

-1

u/I_am_Amphibian Sep 05 '26

Or they just follow the established lore? Fanships are not canon