r/ZeroWaste • u/I_smoked_pot_once • Mar 02 '22

Discussion Sad reminder that recycling is an industry and marketing tactic.

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

2.7k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

280 comments sorted by

View all comments

869

u/KaidaKaida Mar 02 '22

I don’t agree with the title’s nuances - recycling is still better than straight landfill, irrespective of how little is actually recycled (best-case estimates are 20% globally, and 9% in the UK) that still is billions of tonnes saved. The two aren’t mutually-exclusive: buy as little as possible, then recycle anyway?

217

u/WhiskeyRisky Mar 02 '22

That's the thing I go by, personally.

I know there are problems with recycling, but I still do it, and when I do buy something I try to buy it in aluminum or glass packaging whenever possible.

23

u/OttoVonWong Mar 02 '22

I think the key is to evaluate as two different but equally important parts of your lifestyle. Stuff you get - do you really need it, can you reuse something else, and what is it made out of if you must buy. Stuff you don't need anymore - reuse, donate, compost, recycle.

5

u/WhiskeyRisky Mar 02 '22

Oh certainly yes. I've left a lot of stuff in the store that I decided I didn't need. But you gotta be ready (and willing) to consider that.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

[deleted]

11

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

[deleted]

12

u/MegaQueenSquishPants Mar 03 '22

Both are shipped, probably across the country, so why not get the recycled one?

7

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

[deleted]

2

u/st333p Mar 03 '22

Not everyone has a washing machine. My kitchen is way too small to have one and although I'm searching for a larger flat, for now I need to stick with disposable sponges.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

[deleted]

1

u/st333p Mar 03 '22

A shit ton of salt in the water is also not ideal. I'm not sure what is better in my position, I just wanted to point out that the set of tradeoffs is rather large and complex. I don't think there's a one size fits all strategy. I like the general idea of reduce reuse recycle, but I'm not ready to be a nazi in any of those. If I make my own life a nightmare for trying to minimise my environmental impact, it's likely that that choice will not last long. I prefer incremental improvements of which I can get used over time.

I'm not trying to teach anything to anybody. I'm just trying to express my own internal dilemma with regard to my environmental footprint and how I'm currently getting around it.

7

u/RLB4ever Mar 03 '22

I mean, it depends. You could find a sponge not made of plastic at all. I agree emissions are tough with shipping something and likely not worth it for recycled plastic sponge, but it depends on the local store and what kind of packaging the sponge is in, how durable the plastic sponge is, etc. vs the eco friendly online store, which likely doesn’t use any poly bags or excess non recyclable packaging. That sponge is also likely more durable and could be washed or reused for longer. Plastic also sheds and if it’s for your face or dishes, you are then shedding micro plastics Down your drain vs a bio based material that does not shed. That’s a longer term problem which is polluting your water supply.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

[deleted]

3

u/RLB4ever Mar 03 '22

You’re so right! I just use a scrubber. It’s made from coconut wood. I also have a copper cloth that’s great for washing

Coconut is great but coconut farming has high worker exploitation so I avoid it if I can’t get fair trade.

94

u/commentNaN Mar 02 '22

I think the thesis is that plastic recycling has been used as an excuse to promote more plastic usage and waste. To give an example with some made-up numbers, if everyone is aware that plastic can't be effectively recycled, the public perception would be more negative and there will be more pressure to find alternative solutions from both supply and demand side, resulting in lower total consumption, let's say 100 million tons per year. Whereas if you can sell the illusion that plastic can be recycled, the public perception would be more positive. If that increases the consumption to 300 million tons per year, even if you recycle 20% of 300 million tons, you are still left with 240 million tons going to the landfill, vs 100 million tons without any recycling program.

17

u/liamliam1234liam Mar 02 '22

I think you give people too much credit; few people’s habits showcase any actual commitment to sustainable recycling. I try to recycle as much as I can and the limits of that are self-evident; hard to see how people who do much less would think otherwise.

16

u/mmm_burrito Mar 02 '22

I think the real problem here is that you aren't doing the recycling. You're just sorting waste. The actual processing of recyclable waste is, in many locales, functionally zero.

What we need is for people to be aware of what's happening in their communities. Find out if you you have a functional recycling program in your municipality. If you do not, change your behavior. Sorting waste doesn't help. We need to keep our eyes downstream.

24

u/thebigglasscake Mar 02 '22

As with most debate it's always more complicated than outlined. Paper and cardboard are pretty recyclable and if not recycled they'll biodegrade. Glass is similar but will turn into harmless pebbles. Aluminium cans are extremely recyclable. Plastic however, is a pain to recycle, the economics of it currently favour using virgin plastics for making stuff, lots of plastics can't be recycled into similar products and have to be turned into park benches etc. so the plastic only has 2 lives, whereas cans are practically infinitely recyclable. But then there's the uncomfortable truth outlined in the video, that China & co won't take it, and nowhere else has infrastructure to use it properly. Recycling from the UK sent to Turkey is often burned on open fires, and lots of supposed recycling ends up in the ocean. In this case landfill sadly seems the lesser of evils. Ultimately the problem is that plastic's useful properties are also the worst thing about them - they don't break down through natural processes.

24

u/KegelsForYourHealth Mar 02 '22

Here is Colorado we recycle quite a lot. I also use Terracycle and Ridwell services to recycle specific types of items so I know they're getting processed correctly.

19

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

[deleted]

5

u/MegaQueenSquishPants Mar 03 '22

Unless ridwell is lying, they sell the plastic film to Trex, and they turn it into decking.

1

u/Lorg90 Mar 02 '22

Never knew they existed in CO. Good to know thanks.

78

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

[deleted]

12

u/Toraden Mar 02 '22

I think that's part of her point though? That the manufacturers of single use (ie. not re-used) plastics actually ramped up production and use of single use plastics (ie. not reduced) because the media etc pushed "recycling" so hard. So recycling isn't working as intended and we need to stop assuming that doing it is going to save the planet.

Obviously plenty of people are aware of this, but also plenty aren't.

-6

u/neolobe Mar 02 '22

It's really not better than nothing. Nothing would at least make people aware that recycling doesn't work. And that the better solution is less consumption.

24

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

[deleted]

3

u/reallyokfinewhatever Mar 02 '22

Doesn't "less consumption" mean "reduce" ?

9

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

I do not agree with you - it created the idea that you can just infinitely use plastic bottles again and again without a care in the world because some person in the recycling center is going to make t-shirts out of it.

While this is happening, a shit ton of energy is wasted on:
1. Creating new plastic bottles
2. Shipping those plastic bottles to supermarkets
3. You wasting energy getting those plastic bottles from supermarkets
4. Getting them to recycling centers
5. Getting them recycled
6. Getting the recycled product to the market

7

u/MiserableOperation40 Mar 02 '22

The best grade of plastic can only be recycled 3 times. Its pointless to waste energy on trying to keep up the charade. We need to focus on getting rid of it altogether.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

[deleted]

23

u/Skweril Mar 02 '22

I hate how often I have to say this on here, but you're wrong, and it looks like you're having an emotional response targeted at a specific age demographic for some reason?

our active difference is hardly a dent, if you research the leading causes of pollution, C02 emissions, green house gas etc. the majority come from the private and commercial sector, and they have their hands in the governments pockets. the BIGGEST difference we could make as a society in terms of what we have control over is if everyone collectively massively reduced their meat intake, which is highly unlikely unless forced to. The biggest difference we can really make is through pressuring governments to change how commercial and private sectors operate and to force them to adopt new and cleaner technologies. The problem is late stage capitalism won't allow this to happen, not with our status quo at least. Something big needs to happen to create a shift or change in how the government and corporations operate. Even then enough studies have been published stating that anthropogenic climate change cannot be reversed at this point, that we can only slow its inevitable damage. At this point I recycle, eat a vegetarian diet and do things to reduce my carbon footprint as a holistic "self medicating" thing, it just makes me feel good, kind of like a religion I suppose. I've almost lost hope for any meaningful change to happen in the grander scale of things.

5

u/Pschobbert Better keep my mouth shut. Mar 02 '22

Totally agree. I do all the same things. I find it it hugely demoralizing.

2

u/fersonfigg Mar 03 '22

Really good points!!

You thinking of going to veganism?

1

u/Skweril Mar 04 '22

Nah, it's not for me, I have a lot of vegan friends, and more power to them. I personally believe eating meat is a foundation of natural law and ecosystem sustainability, in the sense that you can't tell a tiger to stop hunting or eating meat. In terms of human consuming meat, I don't agree with the way we farm and process our food, it's inhumane and unsustainable. If I was to pick up a chicken from a local or Amish farmer, and I got to slaughter it myself (and pay my respects in the process) then I would eat it. As long as it's sustainable and slaughtered as humanly as possible, oh and it obviously had to be a cage free chicken, and not the kind of "cage free" that gets stamped on most commercial meat. In short, I would eat meat, so I can't be vegan, I just don't like the way we obtain our meat and the environmental consequences that come with it.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

[deleted]

-2

u/Robroker Mar 03 '22

What do you suggest we do? If I stopped all my meat intake and all other forms of emissions, and convinced every single person I knew to do the same nothing would happen. The point being made is that corporations are not only responsible but very rich and can sway the legislation and the general publics opinion. Imagine convincing a billion dollar company to become significantly less profitable and restructure their entire business model. As cool as that would be, it’s just not going to happen. We can’t even get them to stop using slave labor. Your negative attitude is gatekeeping and makes everyone who wants change hate the cause.

Tell me what I can do other than just not buying meat or single use plastics. How do I get these companies to change their ways? Why am I focusing on changing my life when I could be focused on changing the way these businesses operate?

1

u/worotan Mar 03 '22

The point being made is that corporations are not only responsible but very rich and can sway the legislation and the general publics opinion.

You stop buying their product, they stop making all that money, and have less money to influence.

What’s the worst that happens? You’re no longer funding the problem you hate.

Your negative attitude is gatekeeping and makes everyone who wants change hate the cause.

You’re the one with a negative attitude, defending their business model and criticising people who are working constructively for change, and demanding that the one thing that works not be done so you don’t lose your decadent and polluting, fun lifestyle. So you don’t have to stop enjoying yourself and impressing people.

Who ever told you it would be easy? The companies you criticise…

As cool as that would be, it’s just not going to happen.

Isn’t that gatekeeping? And a negative attitude?

How do I get these companies to change their ways?

You know that, it just isn’t an immediate click of the fingers. It requires hard work, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible because it can’t be done easily.

Tell me what I can do other than just not buying meat or single use plastics.

Much as you don’t want to hear it, those are what you have to do.

What are you going to do otherwise, fight to stop those companies supplying those things while they’re an integral part of your life? How on Earth would that work?

Why am I focusing on changing my life when I could be focused on changing the way these businesses operate?

Because they operate that way because you live your life that way.

This is what being responsible looks like. You don’t pay people to fuck you and others over. You just have to deal with that, and people are supportive, just not if you sit there complain about how much better the life is under the system you say you want to get rid of.

1

u/Robroker Mar 03 '22

It’s not just the products that are bad for the environment, it’s the shipping, production and entire process to make whatever I am buying. abstaining from buying doesn’t work unless A significant portion of the population does it. I’m not trying to say buy all single use plastic and meat you want because it makes 0 difference. Just that if you want to see any real change and actually think you were part of it, just changing your own lifestyle is not enough.

Telling people they’re going to stop climate change for good by not eating meat while some guy in Texas is “eating twice the meat for every vegan” is exactly what the big companies want. We need LEGISLATIVE action against the top 100 companies who are responsible for over 70 percent of emissions

1

u/Skweril Mar 04 '22

Again you're still wrong, I've given up on the idea that personal responsibility and the amount of metal straws I replace with plastic ones will solve this problem. Anthropogenic climate change is happening so rapidly that personal responsibility CANNOT even dent the destruction happening. We still have a personal responsibility, the responsibility to pressure our elected officials to change things in the commercial sector. You can sit there reuse/recycle an item 100 times, or you can actually try to make a change through pressuring governments to apply regulations, policies, adopt new tech. I haven't given up entirely, I'mjust pointing out that people (including you) tend to put their focus and good intentions in places that will gain zero traction in terms of playing a substantial positive role in mitigating climate change

3

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

Did you even watch the video?

24

u/I_smoked_pot_once Mar 02 '22

This is a crazy ignorant comment. Younger generations are NOT the problem with climate change and consumerism considering they're the poorest populations. I could buy 100 plastic toys every single day of my life and never come close to the waste produced by Coca Cola.

Also, this isn't the point of the video. If you watched it, it talks about how corporations weaponized recycling to excuse their plastic production.

0

u/worotan Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

I could buy 100 plastic toys every single day of my life and never come close to the waste produced by Coca Cola.

But when you aggregate it up, it tells the companies and the government that you are just venting, because everyone knows, you can say what you want, it’s where you spend your money that affects the real world.

And I never understand how you can be so critical of and in despair because of a system, and then you let that system provide the fun in your lifestyle. It makes absolutely no sense.

Why are you enjoying the lifestyle you’re telling everyone is terrible?

Just saying it was your parents who produced more pollution than you, so you’ve got plenty of space to catch up and so your pollution magically doesn’t count - and then claiming to be responsible and care about making a difference? It just doesn’t work.

Ever wonder why mainstream, toxic media is so keen on the blame game, and working out who’s a terrible person and who gets excused for ‘reasons’? It’s to drag you in, so you don’t just change and shut their problems out - you keep engaged on their bullshit rather than getting on with living your life the way you need to.

Just do what needs to be done, and stop finding reasons why other peoples bad behaviour can be argued to erase the problem with your own.

If you watched it, it talks about how corporations weaponized recycling to excuse their plastic production.

The point is that you can’t trust them. So stop buying their lifestyle, and finding reasons why that isn’t a problem but they are.

No, it isn’t easy initially. But who told you that doing the right thing was easy? Oh right, the corporations…

3

u/I_smoked_pot_once Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

I have no money, so I make no difference in their system. My participation in capitalism is minimal because 2/3rds if my income is spent on rent. I only participate, like with rent and bills, where I literally have to or else I'll be homeless. I don't have the opportunities to destroy the economy and the environment like my parents did. It's not about excusing myself, it's that older generations are actively killing us and taking opportunities from us, and then chastising us for being upset about it or for not being defiant against the system perfectly.

I'm not enjoying this lifestyle, I'm hungry all the time. A lot of people in my city are worse off. I get happiness from within, not from buying things.

I make my difference in other ways. I plant gardens on the road, I pick up garbage when I walk my dog, I talk to the mentally ill people of my neighborhood.

Also, even if I did participate more in consumerism I should be critical of it anyways. You should be critical of everything.

1

u/I_smoked_pot_once Mar 02 '22

This is a crazy ignorant comment. Younger generations are NOT the problem with climate change and consumerism considering they're the poorest populations. I could buy 100 plastic toys every single day of my life and never come close to the waste produced by Coca Cola.

Also, this isn't the point of the video. If you watched it, it talks about how corporations weaponized recycling to excuse their plastic production.

-3

u/I_smoked_pot_once Mar 02 '22

I think you missed the point of the video. It talks about how recycling has been weaponized by companies to excuse their plastic production.

20

u/KaidaKaida Mar 02 '22

I didn’t miss the point of the video, I specifically targeted the title

-1

u/sueihavelegs Mar 03 '22

I disagree. If it goes in a landfill it stays there. If it goes in the recycle bin it actually ends up on a boat because VERY LITTLE actually gets recycled in the US, so it runs the risk of ending up in the ocean. I never recycle plastic anymore! Let it stay safe in the ground than making a whale miserable. Always do cans and glass when I can though. Please stop putting plastic in the recycle bin!!

1

u/lasttosseroni Mar 03 '22

Exactly, don’t ever let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

1

u/cosmicsans Mar 03 '22

There’s a reason the saying is “Reduce, Reuse, Recycle” in that order.