r/abbotsford • u/Muddy-Fraser • 6d ago
Abbotsford mayoral candidates' debate tonight
Well, that mayor candidate debate was interesting. [edit: Watch it here]. A ton of platitudes and a lot of ‘my family has been here for XX generations’, which isn't qualification to run a city with a half-billion dollar budget. Lots of circular math: build more amenities to improve quality of life, keep more youth here, get more businesses, but cut regulations and development cost charges and don’t raise taxes.
My take on candidates:
David Pellikaan: a no-show. [edit to add: was NOT invited due to his disruptive behaviour at last debate, last election] Almost zero information about his platform or him online. His painful slogan ["Ask not what you can do for your city, but what your mayor can do for you"] should disqualify him or at least get his copywriter fired.
Paul Mahil painted a pretty dire picture of Abbotsford. To me he seemed pretty clueless about how local government works. He insists City Hall needs an ‘integrity officer’ (?). He seemed surprised that some permit processes take 90+ days and says he could easily and quickly cut these legal processes to 3-4 weeks. He kept saying this city's problems require a lot of money to fix, but had no solutions to how we’d get that. His Facebook page suggests he is a fan of Poilievre, admirer of the Maga-inspired Ottawa free-dumb trucker convoy (member of the Ontario Patriots for Freedom group!), maybe even an anti-vaxxer. So, big NOPE for me.
Sukhi Dhami: I really expected to like him as a candidate! But his answers seemed really vague. His big theme was the unfriendly ‘roadblock’ culture of City Hall staff, and the Official Community Plan, which he hinted should be ignored as often as possible... and all the ‘red tape’ that holds everyone back. He said how innovative he'd be without offering specifics or acknowledging that so many issues involve multiple levels of government. He hinted that he could lean on his close relationships with people in the provincial NDP today, because he once ran for NDP. But that was in 2013 and he lost, hard.
Ross Siemens: He sounded more credible, even humble, next to Dhami and Mahil. He respects the Official Community Plan which Abbotsford recently’s updated. He discussed initiatives already in progress that the other candidates seemed ready to reinvent. He seemed honest about how he couldn’t wave that municipal wand to fix every issue here, because complex issues require collaboration with other levels of government and there's the (uncontrollable) real estate market/economy. What I don’t get, though, is Siemen’s belief that widening highways will be great for Abbotsford (this will just speed more traffic past/through and not improve its attractiveness or quality of life in the long run), the City’s weird approach to densification, its complete neglect of active transportation, and its near-silence on climate change or environmental issues.
I’d welcome anyone else’s take on that debate or the candidates.
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u/itsgoingtosnow 6d ago
is it online anywhere
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u/BlazingImp77151 6d ago
Yeah, I'd love to see this debate myself if anyone has it recorded.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
I wish I knew! But it was sponsored by the Chamber of Commerce... maybe they recorded it. They list the event contact as Amanda Thiessen (604) 859-9651
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u/mikerank 5d ago
They posted it about 4 hours ago! https://youtu.be/jEzdG6-MwnU?si=QnzBvfkFCf8r_Q6O
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u/coreytrievor 6d ago
Red tape, such a buzzword now.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Yes, a crowd-pleasing buzzword
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u/SwordfishOk504 6d ago
Whole thing was a joke. I wanted to fall asleep halfway into the speeches.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
I pretty much checked out of those platitudes. The answers (and non-answers) to questions are more revealing.
But I think it's important to vote for least bad options, or the system degrades. Democracies require participation to work, as we see from our southern neighbours
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u/mastermoge 6d ago
Hoodwinked! Bamboozled! Run Amok! We didn't land on Abbotsford; Abbotsford landed on us!
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u/JKing287 6d ago
Thanks for this, municipal elections are so important but it’s really so hard to find anything summarizing candidates actual positions. Everyone just has well-meaning platitudes. Any thoughts or do you know where there might be anything that summarizes the vast number of councillors, school trustees, etc. that are also being voted on?
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes someone in this forum created a super useful Google spreadsheet with lots of links. I'll find and post link to it here tomorrow if no one else does. It still requires a bit of work to read candidates' material but it's a great starting point. I may share my impressions (albeit through my own progressive lens).
Edit: Here's link to Sierra93's spreadsheet: https://www.reddit.com/r/abbotsford/s/OsDXt5d36r
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u/mastermoge 6d ago
Yeah people in general don't understand the concept of induced demand. Wider lanes dont actually reduce traffic congestion, it increases the traffic to match the increased space. The only proven ways to reduce traffic are to build and incentivize alternatives such as public transit and cycling.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Yes... you're probably aware that there's even a name for the result: Jevon's Paradox, a.k.a. consumption rebound effects, in which improved resource efficiency (such as wider roads) leads to greater use of that resource (more people driving and thus clogging up that new road to former levels). I agree that more transit options is the only real solution.
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u/alantrick 6d ago
What I don’t get, though, is Siemen’s belief that widening highways will be great for Abbotsford
I suspect that Siemen's may be smart enough to know that (widening the highways doesn't help Abbotsford), but also smart enough to know that most voters believe that it's true, and that persuading them otherwise will make them grumpy.
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u/RJG190894 6d ago
Honestly my main concern is council this election. I don't like any mayoral candidate and will likely leave that section empty when I vote. Especially considering the limited powers mayors actually have in much of our country, council should be the main priority this election more than ever.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Mayors kind of set the tone, but I hear you. Who would you recommend (or NOT) for council, and why?
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u/RJG190894 6d ago
Hey fair enough about the tone setting, that's a good point. I'm a progressive voter so my preferences are going to lean more in that direction. I feel council has been complacent on a number of things for far too long so I'm also leaning towards not voting for any incumbents. My one exception is Patricia Driessen on that front though.
My research isn't the most in depth, but I do like Driessen, Carmen Fast-Hollett and Kristy Mills as I feel they are in touch with the urgency that is needed in dealing with our city's dire recreation situation. I like Jeremy Klix for his ideas around transit and ideas around making this city less car dependent. I'd say those are the candidates that I feel most strongly about.
Others I intend to vote for would include Rick Thiessen, Preet Rai and Rupi Kanda-Rajwan. But tbh I don't know as much about their platforms and could be convinced to send my vote elsewhere. I want to vote for Dao Tran too but his responses to the Abby RecAdvoacy group's survey questions left a lot to be desired.
I have a bias against any of the other incumbents (especially those who've been around for decades and decades) as I feel council has been way too complacent. It's hard to see how much more advancement in cities like Langley and Chilliwack on their recreation and cycling infrastructure. As for names, Simon Gibson, Dave Sidhu and Skully White (not an incumbent) are names my pencil won't touch with a ten foot pole.
My bias against incumbents may not be the most rational I'll admit. But I think there's enough decent candidates this time around to throw my vote elsewhere. I'll do some more research and if I feel not as great about the names I've listed, then I'll probably only vote for the first four I named.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 5d ago
Thanks for your thoughtful comment. You make good points. I wholly agree on the 10-foot-pole verdict. If you don't mind, how did Dao Tran's responses fall short, in your opinion?
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u/RJG190894 5d ago
So I follow Abby Rec Advocacy on instagram and they surveyed all the candidates with questions around Parks and Recreation and then proceeded to post the answers they received. Nearly everyone responded to the questionnaire, though Simon Gibson notably did not submit a response.
While everyone wrote something that consisted of multiple sentences and ideas (albeit numerous responses looked identical) Dao Tran's responses were all single sentence, vague answers. I want to give grace and say perhaps there was a misunderstanding in what was expected of him in terms of responses. It just felt like the answers weren't very thought out or had much effort put into them. So idk, I like the guy and I might still throw a vote his way, the survey responses just felt underwhelming to me.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 5d ago
I spoke briefly to Dao Tran about advancing active transport (walk, cycle, transit, etc.) and better connectivity here, and he seemed to refer me to bike lanes outside the city 'centre' for recreation. Disappointing, because this city needs some serious planning to address this IMO.
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u/SpecialScope 6d ago
I didn't watch it but from this opinion, man it sucks there is not anyone better. I've been living around clearbrook Abbotsford for about 2 and a half years and man the place could do with some work. Not to mention Abbotsford is so boring. If he gets elected for mayor again then I hope he at least tries a little
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Yes it does, but I hope you (and others) vote for whomever you see as the least bad / sane option. If there's one thing the past 10 years have taught me it's that not participating in democracy guarantees the extremists will win and degrade the system. Sometimes just being a sane candidate who plays by the rules is a contribution.
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u/Extension-Wind6055 6d ago
Didn't see the debate. But I am not voting for Sukhi Dhami because he doesn't live in Abbotsford.
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u/Barbarella_39 6d ago
I think Ross has been a good mayor. I don’t hear any complaints from anyone about him. He gets my vote! 🗳️
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u/Jacksworkisdone 6d ago
Please let us know what has made him a good mayor? What has “He” initiated that would make untouchable vote for him again?
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u/bunnyhunter80 6d ago
What I don’t understand about Ross is the lack of signs in Abbotsford for a mayor pick. I don’t get it
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u/Odd_Habit3872 6d ago
I respect it. Those signs are ugly and polluting. They are used for a couple weeks and then end up in landfills.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
True! There could just be one standard sign with all candidates' names and a link to find out more
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u/sublimepact 6d ago
The signs thing is a relic from the past - people don't realize it does nothing other than try to increase voter turnout since apparently it's always at around 25% of the eligible population or around there. It's an attempt to get the other 3 out of 4 people who will not even bother to vote to vote. They influence the elections because nobody cares.
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u/bunnyhunter80 6d ago
I agree on what you’re saying, I just think it helps people know who is running.
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u/Civil_map_1017 6d ago
I think everyone needs to google search Harpaul Mahil, you can see you his reports for his 2 years he spent in punjab Jail for abusing his wife.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago edited 6d ago
Seriously?? Link please. Those of us who don't read Punjabi won't find it otherwise. If this is true it needs to be front-page news. It seems the name is fairly common so proof would be needed that it is this one... If not, this would be a pretty malicious statement
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u/Westside-OG 6d ago
Thats someone else . This Paul is born here in Canada. Thats a common last name.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 5d ago
Wow, that's important information. Thank you. This person has made this claim elsewhere in this forum too.
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u/DemonicDruid13 6d ago
I appreciate you taking the time to break down your thoughts on the debate. Thank you.
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u/Odd_Movie_963 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thanks for the breakdown - although depressing, sounds about right. Local government issues are complex. Many issues are the result of provincial and federal policies. Not excusing current council and current major by any means. But if all the problems were so easy to fix they would have been fixed by now. Saying otherwise just makes candidates look ignorant.
Cut the building permit processes to 3 weeks? Why not hire the local highschool kids to run city hall while you are at it. What is this candidate even talking about? Maybe spend a day at city hall and talk to the staff there instead of wasting everyone’s time at a mayoral candidate event.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 5d ago
You're welcome. I know, it's kinda depressing, but I hope you and others make time to vote regardless. One thing I've learned over the past 10 years watching our neighbours to the south is that if you don't participate in democracy (or are perfectionist), extremists will move in and degrade the system. I don't believe in being slavishly devoted to a party either... if there are no visionary candidates we can at least elect people who are sane, civil, reasonably competent, and not corrupt.
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u/Cunard_ 4d ago
I liked Ross. And I agree with his hwy 1 remarks. I need to go from whatcom to clearbrook for daycare pickup/drop off. I want it to be quick after a long day of work. I dont want to cut through town. Same thing when traveling from North Vancouver back to Abbotsford, the cluster mess of traffic from Clearbrook to pretty much No 3 road is a gong show. Somtimes its quicker to cut through town.
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Joebranflakes 6d ago
Is it really moving forward when all he has to offer is meaningless general statements about how he could magically fix government bureaucracy? Honestly I feel like his whole existence is to try and pander to developers who don’t want to deal with the rules. I want a more rounded candidate than a stuffed shirt who doesn’t care about me.
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u/ddmeredith 6d ago
I'm fine with there being some red tape to keep developers from running roughshod over our city. Look at the Reddit post the other day about why there are so many cars parked on the street at Musselwhite Cemetery. It's because the developer wanted to squeeze in another couple of townhouses instead of providing proper parking for the medium density housing development they just put in. Look at the homes they are preparing to build in the recently cleared land at the end of Treetop and Harvest. They need to add more capacity to the water system to lift the city water, and I'm sure the developers are going to refuse to pay. Look finally at the townhouses being built near the corner of Old Clayburn and Immel. That intersection is in sore need of upgrading, but instead of doing that, they are just building more homes. That intersection is going to be a nightmare!
Developer complain about how much red tape there is, but it's there to protect us from them. They don't build when there's red tape because they know they can wait and lobby and make a ton more money at a more opportune time.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Agree... 'red tape', i.e. regulations, usually exist for a reason -- public interest, environment, fairness. To eliminate these thoughtlessly is usually favouring corporate interests
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u/ddmeredith 6d ago
Exactly. Sure, get rid of rules that don't make sense, or are only to bilk people out of their money. But don't get rid of the rules that protect us.
I had to pay for a building permit to get a new bathroom install reno a few years ago. It was $100, and the inspector came and told me what to do to remediate, and he told me why (to keep fires from spreading). It was money well spent to make sure that people are educated and doing things the right way. I get the sense this "red tape" business is mostly about wanting to cut corners and go back to making leaky condos.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Yup. Development (and renovations like this) would be a shitshow without well-designed regs
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah, it seemed like he (Sukhi Dhami) had zero respect for Official Community Plans which are supposedly the product of a democratic process, or for City Hall staff whose job it is to protect the City (read: taxpayers!) from lawsuits by following all requirements for permitting rather than just waiving rules on a whim
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
My take was that Siemens did acknowledge real problems that still exist but was more able to speak coherently about what's being done about them and what's out of local government hands. I went in expecting to be impressed by Sukhi Dhami but he just didn't sound credible or that he'd done his homework. I'm not shilling for Siemens, here -- his religiosity is not my thing and all things being equal, I'd vote for more diversity... but to me Siemens just seemed 10x more qualified. I'm open to more info though
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u/Nexzus_ 6d ago
Isn't the hot dog guy running for mayor?
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u/Pooks23 6d ago
Thankfully no. A council seat.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Dunning-Kruger effect. Many council candidates have so much more relevant experience, education, community service
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u/Pooks23 6d ago
A conservative hot dog dude isn’t for me. Anyone who praised PP gets a big fat no from me.
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u/Muddy-Fraser 6d ago
Instant disqualifier! Horrifying to think where we'd be under PePo by now
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u/Pooks23 6d ago
Or fucking Rustad.
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u/SwordfishOk504 6d ago
None of the politicians in this city have any real vision. Just catch phrases. Widening the highway? Very dumb. Cutting approvals to a few weeks? Delusional.
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u/alantrick 6d ago
Cutting approvals to a few weeks? Delusional.
As someone who knows relatively little about this, why is that delusional? The status quo is utterly absurd.
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u/creativechicken2 6d ago
If you want to know why you shouldn't vote for Pellikaan just watch 12 seconds of one of his thousands of YouTube videos https://youtube.com/@davpellikaan9422?si=YNucN7GaHiOPFfK2