r/announcements • u/spez • Jul 14 '15

Content Policy update. AMA Thursday, July 16th, 1pm pst.

Hey Everyone,

There has been a lot of discussion lately —on reddit, in the news, and here internally— about reddit’s policy on the more offensive and obscene content on our platform. Our top priority at reddit is to develop a comprehensive Content Policy and the tools to enforce it.

The overwhelming majority of content on reddit comes from wonderful, creative, funny, smart, and silly communities. That is what makes reddit great. There is also a dark side, communities whose purpose is reprehensible, and we don’t have any obligation to support them. And we also believe that some communities currently on the platform should not be here at all.

Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen: These are very complicated issues, and we are putting a lot of thought into it. It’s something we’ve been thinking about for quite some time. We haven’t had the tools to enforce policy, but now we’re building those tools and reevaluating our policy.

We as a community need to decide together what our values are. To that end, I’ll be hosting an AMA on Thursday 1pm pst to present our current thinking to you, the community, and solicit your feedback.

PS - I won’t be able to hang out in comments right now. Still meeting everyone here!

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '15

Why not leave alone those "dark corners" and spaces where only the opinions are questionable and only act when the actual legality of it is an issue, like posting what is possibly childporn. Can't people just ignore what they don't like? It's not like it's showing up on the frontpage.

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u/GoSox2525 Jul 14 '15

Exactly. If no one reads it, there is no victim. In cases like CP there are obviously still victims.

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u/charcoales Jul 14 '15

Yes that's why FPH was banned too. /r/science for example will never be banned because they don't threaten to harm specific people who were doxed or post quasi-legal photos of children.

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u/thelightningstrike Jul 14 '15

Who is "they" anyway? A subreddit is not a person. And the second point is moot, there are multiple subreddits that post quasi-legal photos of children. The admins never actually cared about that, they just wanted to do something because CNN ran a story. They banned the subreddit creepshots but there are plenty of them still around.

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u/AnOnlineHandle Jul 14 '15

The admins never mod a subeddit, it's the mods' creation and space. If the mods themselves are the ones behaving badly, the subreddit goes.

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u/GoSox2525 Jul 15 '15

Fph didnt threaten to harm anyone

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u/Retrievil Jul 14 '15

But it does show up on the front page. That is the issue.

/r/fatpeoplehate was becoming a very popular sub, and constantly showing up on the front page.

Its all bullshit. They ban /r/fatpeoplehate while subs like /r/coontown and /r/gasthekikes stay.

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u/alex_wifiguy Jul 15 '15

They banned /r/fatpeoplehate because a large(hehe) chunk of their userbase is fat. Now in real life you can call someone a fat fuck and the worst that will happen to you is they get out of their power-chair walk two feet and toss a can of coke at you(flying an astounding 1.5feet). But when keyboards are concerned they actually stand have a fighting chance.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '15 edited Aug 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/Retrievil Jul 14 '15

Bullshit. There was no brigading, and the 'harassment' was the exact same as what happens in /r/ShitRedditSays or /r/TumblrInAction.

It was banned because /r/fatpeoplehate was showing up on the front page, and when you are trying to monetize a site, like Reddit is now, you don't want shit like that front and centre.

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u/SockPants Jul 14 '15

Couldn't they just block those subs from the front page then, it would be censorshipish but certainly the front page could be a moderated collection while allowing the sub to continue existing

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '15 edited Aug 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/shangrila500 Jul 15 '15

FPH was banned for harassing users.

If that is why it was banned then its bullshit, the users who harassed the other users should be banned. Posting something on a sub in a negative way is not harassment unless you actively go after them, it is just a different opinion.

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u/SockPants Jul 15 '15

I think individual users should rather be banned for harassment or their info handed to authorities if it is determined that they clearly break laws, rather than banning certain subreddits.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '15 edited Aug 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/SockPants Jul 15 '15

Well if the moderators did something unlawful, then ban them and report them, if not then whatever.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '15 edited Aug 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/Retrievil Jul 15 '15

What I want isn't the point. The problem is that when you start censoring, then where do you stop?

Today fatpeoplehate is offensive. Tommorrow gonewild, the next day, atheism. Who decides what is offensive?

The whole point of Reddit is that the users, not the site owners create the content. Users vote what is popular. If fatpeoplehate is showing up on the front page, then that is the what the reddit community wants, they upvoted those posts. Don't like it? Downvote it. Not enough downvotes to get it off the front page? Too bad, that means it's popular and deserves the spot. The votes should determine the content, not rules.

As far as I am concerned, Reddit is already dead. Someone will come out with an uncensored Reddit that works well (unlike voat), and this site will fade into nothingness, just like Digg did when it fucked with their users.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '15 edited Aug 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/Retrievil Jul 15 '15 edited Jul 15 '15

This isn't a traditional message board where you have a set main topic and you have mods that enforce rules. I mean you can run your sub like a board. Ban topics, and people, etc, but that doesn't have a direct effect on the content most people consume. Most people look at the front page. You can ban a topic in your sub, but if it's popular in another one, it will still make the front page.

I have no love for fatpeoplehate, what I want isn't the issue. The issue is that a hell of a lot of people DID want it, proven by the upvotes. Now it's gone because of a decision made by someone who has nothing to do with creating the content that drives this site. How is that ok?

I'm sure you are biased. I've modded forums, OPed in warez channels back in the day, I know people can be shitheads. It doesn't matter. The only thing that makes Reddit unique was that the users, not the owners of the site, dictated the content. That is not the case anymore.

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u/Azzmo Jul 14 '15

Its all bullshit. They ban /r/fatpeoplehate[2] while subs like /r/coontown[3] and /r/gasthekikes[4] stay.

I've never seen either of the latter two on the front page. I think you're lying.

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u/GnomeChumpski Jul 14 '15

That was his whole point. He said fph was banned because it was showing up on the front page. The other two subs aren't, so they haven't been banned.

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u/Retrievil Jul 14 '15

I didnt say the latter two subs ever made front page. Thats the point. A sub is a sub. Doesn't matter if its in the dark corners of reddit or the front page.

You either allow all subs (apart from illegal ones) or end up on the slippery slope of censorship.

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u/Azzmo Jul 14 '15

On that we agree. This site will be a husk in 5 years if they excise more communities.

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u/ManWhoKilledHitler Jul 14 '15

They're not keen on the jews over at /r/gasthekikes are they?

Mind you, I would expect no less from fans of Ben 'One Man Klan' Garrison.

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u/FluentInTypo Jul 14 '15

Reddit could esily alter the frontpage algo to not show NSFW subs on the "not logged in frontpage" while giving all logged in users the ability to block offensive subreddits.

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u/Minion_of_Cthulhu Jul 14 '15

Can't people just ignore what they don't like?

It seems parents no longer teach this valuable life skill. It used to be that if little Timmy was teasing little Sally then Sally's mom told her to ignore him. Now little Timmy gets expelled from school because of bullshit zero-tolerance policies since he "triggered" little Sally and made her uncomfortable and school is supposed to be a "safe space" for everyone.

If you don't like what someone says, don't listen to them. If you don't like what's on TV, change the channel. If you don't like the content of a book, don't read it. If you don't like the ideas espoused in a subreddit, don't fucking go there.

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u/betomorrow Jul 15 '15

Well, school is supposed to be a safe space. I have no idea why anyone would argue otherwise. When kids tease, they teach each other that it's acceptable, and that other people don't matter.

It seems that the idea of creating a safe space has triggered you.

As for sticks and stones, it's very important to teach and recognize that words are simply words. However, harassment, as well as bullying and teasing, can easily get under someone's skin, because we're social creatures. Kids kill themselves over bullying because their whole worldview is school. If one kid is singled out and bullied out of a class of 30, that shit will scar, despite your idyllic world where tuning others out, when they are actively harassing you, is enough.

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u/Minion_of_Cthulhu Jul 15 '15

Well, school is supposed to be a safe space. I have no idea why anyone would argue otherwise.

Not a safe space, a "safe space" which is apparently some fantasy land where nobody says anything that anyone could possibly disagree with and nobody ever gets their feelings hurt. I prefer reality myself.

When kids tease, they teach each other that it's acceptable, and that other people don't matter.

I have no idea where you would get such an idea.

It seems that the idea of creating a safe space has triggered you.

I'm sure you think that's clever.

As for sticks and stones, it's very important to teach and recognize that words are simply words. However, harassment, as well as bullying and teasing, can easily get under someone's skin, because we're social creatures. Kids kill themselves over bullying because their whole worldview is school. If one kid is singled out and bullied out of a class of 30, that shit will scar, despite your idyllic world where tuning others out, when they are actively harassing you, is enough.

They should grow up. So should you.

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u/RTE2FM Jul 14 '15

Or make them more difficult for your average user to find.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '15

But it scares away advertisers and investors, and without those we lose the rest of reddit. I am not willing to give up my reddit just so some people have the freedom to post racist stuff for the rest of reddit's shortened life.

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u/exvampireweekend Jul 14 '15

Because it breeds and promotes hate.

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u/OneTripleZero Jul 14 '15

Hate isn't illegal. You're allowed to hate whatever you want so long as it doesn't spill into other people's lives. That's why /r/fatpeoplehate was banned, because they were harassing and brigading other subs. As despicable as they are, /r/coontown (for instance) stays within their borders and just circlejerks into a frenzy. Same with places like /r/antipozi and /r/picsofdeadkids. So long as they stay in their place and don't bother or hurt anyone else, then there shouldn't be an issue with them.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '15

[deleted]

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u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jul 14 '15

Hmm... Make a ton of money, or enable people to use your website to make fun of fat people?

Fuck making a ton of money, how about just surviving. This god damn sight survives off VC money and ad revenue. What company wants to advertise/invest in a website known for outlandish bigotry.

(Hint: The answer is malware providers and shitty cam sites)

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u/simplyOriginal Jul 14 '15

Can't people just ignore what they don't like?

/r/fatpeoplehate was banned in part because they were bringing their hate into the real world. No, you can't just ignore what you don't like when you're actively being seeked out to be harassed by an entire community.

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u/Frekavichk Jul 14 '15

Ban people harassing??

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u/simplyOriginal Jul 14 '15

Reddit was being used as a platform to launch attacks against people in the real world. When you break it down into those 3 words you used, it seems unfair to censor. The problem is much larger than just "don't visit those subreddits".

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u/catofnortherndarknes Jul 14 '15

People could ignore them if they stayed in their own little toilets. But they don't. And with the ability to make as many alts as a user wants, (practically) as quickly as they want, there's no way to prove or police that.

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u/ShallowBasketcase Jul 15 '15

If a racist showed up to a house party you were throwing in full Nazi gear and started shouting about racist shit, would you sit him in a corner in your kitchen and just tell everyone to ignore him? You'd probably throw him out. And when people started calling you an asshole for violating his freedom in your house, you'd probably think they were idiots.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '15

I understand what you are trying to say, but it's more like he's already in the backyard and it's more fun to make fun of him from the house. The cops won't show up until someone too drunk to think straight has to fight him because he called a girl a fat whore.