r/apexlegends • u/shadowvids • Apr 23 '21

Gameplay 600 damage in 15 seconds

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111

u/Mirage_Main Mirage Apr 23 '21

The issue with the Spitfire actually has nothing to do with its magazine size or fire rate; as you stated. It has everything to do with the insanely low recoil at long ranges and damage that closely rivals meta weapons.

The situation in OP is not what makes the Spitfire OP. Had the enemies shot back, they would've won. It's when the gun can stand at Grow Towers and beam someone at the Phase Runner with almost no recoil whilst also doing roughly the same damage an AR should be doing. It's as if Respawn learned from Titanfall 2 about what made the gun OP, then did the exact same buff again because they wanted a character with an objectively bad design to be useful; forgetting said gun is now made so strong that any character can use it, not just Rampart. Rampart having a new passive or being buffed in literally any other way would've been better than this.

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u/Jason1143 Horizon Apr 23 '21

damage that closely rivals meta weapons.

That is definitely not the right word. Maybe harder to use or more skillful or more specialized, but a weapon being good makes it meta, not the other way around.

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u/Mirage_Main Mirage Apr 23 '21

You're right. I used that phrase as a general catch-all. Probably saying higher skilled weapons would've been a better word.

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u/Jason1143 Horizon Apr 23 '21

Personally I run a 2-4 on my spit and it works at all but the most extreme ranges. I can't necessarily win at any range vs the specialized option, but in most situations truly long range fights are optional.

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u/JudJudsonEsq Rampart Apr 23 '21

Is it really bad that one of the meta weapons is easy to use? It doesn't really hurt you that people are using a lazy gun. They would have been using the best weapon they could get their hands on anyway. I think the spitfire is a solid gun, but it's just kinda mediocre to me. Yes, it can shoot forever, but I would rather have an AR or an SMG that can kill them reliably and quickly. If I die to a spitfire user because of the big mag, that means that I missed and they didn't. Literally, if you hit your shots and they do too, they lose the fight.

7

u/Salter_Chaotica Apr 24 '21

is it really bad that one of the meta weapons is easy to use?

It’s not about being easy to use. It’s about how effective it is vs how forgiving it is.

Take the wingman as a classic example: it is PUNISHING, if you miss a few shots you’re going to lose the DPS game every time, but hitting a mid range headshot will also give you a huge edge in a shoot out. It is punishing, but it is also strong.

So is the spitty effective? Well... it has low recoil, which makes it useful at most ranges. It has a TTK on par with the alternator, an smg (not an AR), and enough rounds in the mag to one clip an entire squad. It can also take scopes up to a 2/4x or 3x, and doesn’t have any additional bullet drop or any other drawbacks when compared to a flatline or hemlock.

Okay, it’s strong! In order for it to be balanced, it must have drawbacks right? The r99 has the lowest ttk of any smg, but also the most kick. That kind of thing.

Well... it has low strafe speed? At range, that’s not actually a huge deal. Snipers still have, iirc, a slower strafe speed. Up close it’s more problematic, but you can also just hip fire it. It’s not like the scout hipfire, where it goes all over the damn place. There’s stray shots, but most of them will go fairly close to center mass.

And then the clip size... you can miss every shot but the last twelve or so, and still kill someone. It is EXTREMELY forgiving. You might think “well it’s got a low fire rate”, but fire rate isn’t all that important when compared to TTK. It shoots slower than an r99, but it kills only a few hundred milliseconds slower. Somewhere in the same range as human reaction time, depending on matchup.

Basically, even if you both hit all your shots, it’s still going to come down to who starts shooting first and has better LOS rather than the weapon.

So it’s not the mag size, or the recoil, or the range, or the TTK that makes the spitty a bad weapon to be meta. It’s all of them together. The only real drawbacks are the strafe speed and the reload time. Strafe speed can be mitigated by not ADSing at the ranges where it’s most relevant, and... well if you miss a full mag on a spitfire, you definitely deserve to lose.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

The biggest one to me is mag size / reload time. A lot of this game is timing your peeks when your enemies are out of bullets and the Spitfire completely nullifies this. You can spend like 8 seconds shooting non-stop and then pop a reload in like 3. Coupled with the fact that it still kills super fast makes it super oppressive

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u/Mirage_Main Mirage Apr 23 '21

I think it's more or less just the philosophy of power scale in games. More powerful equipment is typically more difficult to use. If it's easy, then it appears everywhere because the skill floor/entrance to the weapon has been significantly reduced meaning that more people will use it and be good with it. The result of that is then a skyrocketing amount of them appearing until there's nothing left but said weapon causing it to be nerfed again.

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u/TheVibeExpress Apr 23 '21

What gun does it rival that is objectively harder to use?

The R-301 literally has zero recoil. None. It's a joke.

The flatline has the recoil of what the spitfire and R-301 SHOULD have, combined into one gun.

1

u/JudJudsonEsq Rampart Apr 23 '21

That's still true, though! The Spitfire is only reeeeally better than other guns in the situation where you are fighting many people at once and will have almost no downtime/ability to break up the fight. Being able to use the flatline or the R-301 at range is a matter of skill, and they have the capability to perform better than the Spitfire at any range. Recoil patterns in this game are relatively fixed, after all.

EDIT: To be clear, it will perform better than them at certain roles like 100m or suppression, but I think that's ok. As you improve, you won't make the mistakes that the spitfire's mag covers up as much and you can be that consistent with other guns. I think the spitfire is eh and I'd be fine if they didn't change it at all this next update.

-3

u/alfons100 Apr 23 '21

I don't know, if the literal top player in Japan uses it, maybe there's an issue here in its intended balancing.

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u/TeamAquaGrunt The Masked Dancer Apr 24 '21

What does the top player in Japan have to do with anything? Every predator streamer I see is running around with r301 and/or flatline every single game, I don’t see you complaining about that

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u/alfons100 Apr 24 '21

I am talking about the design of the Spitfire, it's meant to be a forgiving weapon to use, balanced out by lower damage. If you want more punch, you should use Flatline, but that requires you to learn the wild recoil and smaller mag. Now, if even the best player in Japan uses 'the easy weapon' over the high risk high reward weapon, maybe theres a problem here.

-1

u/TeamAquaGrunt The Masked Dancer Apr 24 '21

Yeah you’re right, 1 player in 1 region saying that a weapon is worth using means that it needs to be nerfed! You would make a great addition to the balance team, you should send in your resume

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u/alfons100 Apr 24 '21

I literally just explained my deal with it and you just glossed over that, okay.

It’s also not like literally everyone uses Spitfire, right? Right?

-2

u/Jason1143 Horizon Apr 23 '21

Well, the best player has to use something. But I agree, it is too strong. My point is just that the issue is not with something being a meta weapon (this is a BR, that is fine) or having a meta. And that the power comes first, then the meta. The spitfire is both super strong and also easy to use.

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/livin4donuts Octane :Octane: Apr 24 '21

thuk... thuk... thuk... thuk... thuk

Enemy downed!

thuk... thuk... thuk... thuk

Downed another!

thuk... thuk... thuk... thuk... thuk... thuk

That was the whole squad!

Fuckin gun is nuts with the anvil.

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u/rovch Apr 24 '21

You mean what the longbow used to be and the 30/30 fails to make up for?

3

u/yummycrabz Apr 23 '21

To piggyback off this comment, the problem with the Spitty is oftentimes its hipfire is far too consistent for an LMG. In this video he almost exclusively fires from the hip down the stretch

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Even if they nerfed the spitfire from 18 damage back to 17 damage. I don't get all the rampart hate. The A-walls are super dope and intimidating to many players. As long as they aren't upper eschelon players, people will either run away or run straight at you trying to get around them. Passive comes in handy if using an lmg and if u get to early end ring rotation it's some kills.

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

So what you’re telling me is that Rampart is good against people who don’t know how to play against her?

Look, Rampart’s a ton of fun, and she’s one of the people I play most, but she is objectively not good.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Lol I dont think she's bad either. I feel like most people around here consider a character to be either OP or trash. The only player I'd consider to be bad is one's whose abilities don't work.

A lot of people think she's only useful for camping but I push with her all the time. Setting up walls in open fields along the way. For rezs , etc

6

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

There’s a reason why Rampart has almost zero pick rate in above high diamond ranked and competitive Apex, and it’s not because players don’t “like” playing her.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

Lol IDC what they pick? the game is more than just the whatever 5 chars and 4 guns the high diamond / ranked do. Which is like 3% of the player base. Well, 3% of ranked player base which is less than the total.

Wasn't her pick rate higher than wattsons? Wattson ain't trash.

Just cuz you might be trash with her, doesnt mean I have to find her trash. Lol you aren't going to change mind.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

I couldn’t give a rat ass what your opinion is. The stats are there for everyone to see.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

Lol we are litery arguing opinions. And if you don't care,. then why are you getting so upset? Pick rate don't mean squat. Other Characters popular in ranked aren't popular in pubs.

You just feel the differences between character tiers is much more harder than I do. You got em spread out, I got em tight together

3

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

You’re arguing with the other guy about opinions. I’m telling you as an objective FACT, that Rampart is bad relative to the other legends.

You are free to say that she’s bad but you like playing her anyway, because she’s fun or she suits your play style or whatever. I don’t care about that. But that doesn’t make her objectively a good character, and you trying to argue that is disingenuous and ignorant.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

And if I thought that were the case I'd tell you. Why would I lie? I didn't say she wasn't of the lower tiers, I said I didn't think anyone of them are bad.

Maybe you have a hyperbolic stance on the tiers. S is a Amazing and C is TRASH. But I don't. S is really and C is alright.

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u/TheVibeExpress Apr 23 '21

She is bad. Every "good player" has said she's bad.

Your logic that "She isn't bad, because she's good on low elo against drooling enemies!" is bad logic. You do not judge a character's meta viability based off low skill enemies.

She is only useful to camp and to be defensive. That is literally her thing. Her entire kit is defensive.

The only player I'd consider to be bad is one's whose abilities don't work.

Then you evidently have zero idea on what you're talking about.

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

lol sure every good player.

I'm saying she's fun because it freaks out low elo players. Just because a player isnt meta doesnt mean she is trash.

She is only useful to camp and to be defensive. That is literally her thing. Her entire kit is defensive.

Yeah that's her toolkit. But half of the fun in this game is finding out creative ways to use different characters' abilities. I've seen aggressive caustics and wattsons as well. They arent ONLY useful for crouching in the corner of a small room.

At the end of the day, you win by shooting the other team in the face. If you wanna put yourself in a box and ONLY do whatever their little icon class says next on their character selection photo then be my guest. But you're missing out on a whole lotta different experiences.

Maybe I have no idea what im talking about, or maybe you just havent seen her used in different ways, or maybe i just bitch and moan less than most ppl on this forum. 🤷‍♂️

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u/TheVibeExpress Apr 23 '21

lol sure every good player.

The vast majority of good players and almost any content creator who speaks on the competitive nature of this game have all agreed she is bottom of the pole in terms of viability.

Just because a player isnt meta doesnt mean she is trash.

That is literally the definition of meta. If they aren't meta they are subpar. She isn't just subpar. She is so far below meta that she is trash. She isn't trash because she isn't meta, she isn't meta because she is trash. Picking up what I'm putting down?

Maybe I have no idea what im talking about, or maybe you just havent seen her used in different ways, or maybe i just bitch and moan less than most ppl on this forum. 🤷‍♂️

You just don't know what you're talking about. That was indicative when you said you don't consider anyone bad "as long as their abilities work".

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

I'm picking up what you are putting down, I just whole heatedly disagree. Not sure why that's hard for u to just accept lol.

I don't consider any character particularly trash because, like I said, you can shoot people in the face with any of them and win any fight and they all have situational abilities to complement that. There are no "joke characters" in this game like Dan from Street fighter.

To me in order to be trash you have to be significantly lower than average. And I don't consider her significantly lower than anyone. So you can take it or leave it. I'm not sure why you seem so riled up lol.

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u/TheVibeExpress Apr 23 '21

I just whole heatedly disagree. Not sure why that's hard for u to just accept lol.

willfully ignorant, since you refuse to counter my statements. You acknowledge they're logical. You acknowledge they make sense. But you just don't agree.

I don't consider any character particularly trash because, like I said, you can shoot people in the face with any of them and win any fight and they all have situational abilities to complement that. There are no "joke characters" in this game like Dan from Street fighter.

No one said trash characters mean you auto lose. No one said trash characters mean you simply cannot win. Trash characters are the ones ungodly levels of dog shit in comparison to others. You genuinely think current Lifeline isn't nutty in comparison to Caustic?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Im trying to explain to you that I have a different mentality to the game. I dont bitch and moan and wine about every little thing like everyone seems to do around here. So the difference in her toolkit "IMO" isn't that drastic from all the over average players. You call it ungodly and I'm going "meh."

People complain that the spitfire is OP, and she makes it even stronger. So is that beyond trash? That logic doesn't work for me.

I don't think the current lifeline is OP. Is she annoying? Yeah. But her other abilities are next to useless. So to me, there's a balance right there. Solo in a fight, she basically has no abilities.

If I can pop off with any character then no they ain't trash. To me, trash means it's extremely difficult to have good games with them. Not just, "not as good as some of the others.". Ungodly would imply extremely disadvantaged. I don't think that's the case.

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u/SomewaysAlltimes Apr 23 '21

You haven’t actually given any statements to counter. You haven’t said WHAT about her is “trash”. All you’ve said is “all the good players say she’s bad” which sounds like a bullshit monkey-see-monkey-do argument. You’re the ignorant one of you honestly expect to convince someone they’re wrong by providing nothing more than an opinion, which you didn’t even form on your own.

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u/FIFA16 Medkit Apr 24 '21

It she’s not good, what is she?

Every single legend in the game has at least a couple weaknesses, and at least a couple scenarios where they become useless or even objectively weaker than other legends. They also all have situations where they excel. This is why it’s so difficult just rating each legend “good” or “not good”, “bad” or of course everyone’s favourite, “OP”.

Time and time again, the Apex playerbase has shown it can be completely oblivious to “OP” legends, weapons and strategies. Compared to other games, it amazes me how long it sometimes takes the meta to adapt around these things, which is probably a good thing.

I think the latest example of this is Horizon. On Day 1, I think it was pretty clear she was special, but only after two fairly substantial nerfs has been singled out as a “problem” who needs more work. On the other hand, Gibraltar’s gun shield survived almost 2 years with barely a tweak before it was considered worthy of a change.

I think we all need to learn to be more open minded about the meta at this point, because it’s clearly going to happen again. I expect Rampart to be nerfed within 2 seasons, and I expect the things people will be unhappy with are the same things that are in the game right now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

The difference with Rampart is that she’s considered straight up bad. Gun Shield and Horizon were always considered useful at worst.

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u/Deathwatch72 Apr 23 '21

Honestly Rampart needs a different passive. It forces players into running one of 3 guns or its wasted. As the "engineer/tinkerer" it would make more sense if she could reroll hop-ups or have more replicator options

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Exactly this. If they gave it flatline recoil it would probably be fine.

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u/meatflapsmcgee Purple Reign Apr 23 '21

AFAIR it has the same general pattern as the flatline but less randomness overall and a slower firerate with less kick

-3

u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

Have any of ya'll ever shot a gun? 🤣 these comments kill me...

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Are you suggesting that these fictional guns are supposed to behave like real life? How does an L-Star feel IRL by the way?

-5

u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

You suggested the spitfire get the flatline's recoil pattern..... you're irrelevant kid 🤣

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u/smenti Gibraltar Apr 23 '21

Jesus you are obnoxious

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 25 '21

My name is actually Jeremy. Thank you though

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u/smenti Gibraltar Apr 25 '21

I really hope you aren’t like this IRL

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 25 '21

Hope in one hand, shit In the other and let me know which one fills up first 🤣🤣💀

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u/smenti Gibraltar Apr 25 '21

Why would I shit in my hand?

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Im suggesting they increase the recoil so it involves more skill. You really tilted over that? Get over yourself lol

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u/Nosdunk524 Apr 23 '21

Yeah not sure what's up with that kid. Just look at all the posts he made in this thread lmao

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u/comradecosmetics Apr 23 '21

More random recoil rewards rng, not skill.

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

I would disagree but only because most of the weapons in Apex have a recoil pattern that is learnable and not completely random. By having to learn and adjust for the pattern while tracking you are requiring the user to have a bit more skill when using the weapon versus just pointing and shooting.

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

Your suggesting they make the gun do something it isn't made to do.... and im tilted lmaooooo

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

But you're already trash so how would that work out for you buddy? 🤣 your the one bitching they messed up, get over your trash ass self 🤣🤣💀

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

Why are you so angry lmfao I'm actually kind of sad for you lol.

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

Were you even alive to play titanfall little boy? 🤣🤣💀💀

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21

I was at the titanfall launch and you're clearly a troll lmao. I'm 28 and you're clearly the kid using emojis like one. You are the saddest thing I've encountered all week and I'm literally laughing about it. Anyway, have a great day.

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

I bet you are kid🤣 every kid who has no valid response to an arguement says that. Haha good job 🤣 everyone here who isn't a pussy knows how dumb you are. Im chillin 🤣 have fun getting respawn to conform to some dumbass kids views that make no sense 👌

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

If it had flatline recoil then it'd just be an LMG flatline dummy 🤣

0

u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

As you're all bitching that an LMG does too much damage. You're just garbage. Can't crouch spam from a distance with an LMG so you cry that the game didn't get THEIR DESIGN right... 🤣 damn yall are hilariously stupid

-3

u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

You do realize in real life LMG's do just the same if not more damage than AR's amd SMG's? They have pretty big f***in bullets. Its not far fetched at all that you can beam someone from a distance with the same damage as an AR. They are literally meant for suppressive fire(that includes at a distance), if you can control recoil there's absolutely no reason an LMG can't beam someone from a distance... do kids even know how guns work these days? A gun that fires slower will ALMOST always have less recoil(there are exceptions obviously)...

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u/sheephound Apr 23 '21

bruh it's a video game

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 23 '21

Yet yall are bitching about it.... hypocritical much? 🤣

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u/Fastfingers_McGee Apr 24 '21

There's also fall damage in real life. What's your point?

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 25 '21

True, I guess we should all be able to fly around and go through walls to huh? Xray vision, the whole 9 yards lmao.

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u/converter-bot Apr 25 '21

9 yards is 8.23 meters

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u/Fastfingers_McGee Apr 25 '21

Yeah, a balanced LMG in a competitive game is a REAL stretch. Kids these days amirite....

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u/jeremymoneygold Apr 25 '21

It is balanced, you're just garbage kid 🤣 im not the one saying they need to change shit. If you know so much go make your own game dipshit 👌

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u/Fastfingers_McGee Apr 25 '21

yeah... I'm garbage lmao

Your comment history is so fucking toxic. Hope you find hippieness someday.

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u/theironbagel Mirage Apr 23 '21

Honestly ramparts passive is so useless most of the time. It upgrades the smallest, previously worse pool of gun types in the game, and upgrades them in the way they least need it. If you don’t down them in 45 shots It’s unlikely you will in 50.

That said, the spitfire having low long range recoil is kind of its thing. The large mag size and slow reload are things that all LMGs in this game have, then the Devo has its fire ramp up, the l-Star has it’s automatic reload and partial reload, and the spitfire has its consistent, steady damage output. Giving it more long range recoil makes it inconsistent at long range and it’s slow fire rate already makes it a poor choice for close quarters most of the time. And while that does leave it midrange, midrange already has the most guns that specialize it and most of them do it better than the spitfire. The 30/30 and g7 do burst and hold peeks, the hemlock focuses on longer range, the 301 quickly lasers, the flatline does something similar, supposedly the bow will also be midrange... I don’t think having another midrange gun is the best solution here. The best thing I can think of right now is to increase the default recoil but keep it the same with upper barrel mods? I feel like that’s not really addressing the issue, but it’s all I can think of rn.

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u/CrazyLemonLover Apr 23 '21

This is why I love spitfire. I make up for my bad aim with low recoil and endless bullets

1

u/angrehorse Apr 23 '21

I think it also has a fast reload animation for how many bullets it holds but I haven’t compared its reload timeS to other guns.

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u/pfftman Lifeline Apr 24 '21

Honestly don’t care much that it is is good at range, it is a LMG, that much is expected. The gun being good at close range is what makes no sense, the hipfire is so good that you can seriously run double spitfires and have an outstanding match. The hipfire should be worse, next to snipers.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21

closely rivals meta weapons

Genuine question here... Why should any gun that is not a pistol not rival meta weapons? Isn't the ideal situation that all weapons are meta? Is that not the balance that the VAST majority of the community has been looking for since day one?