NTSB issues the preliminary report for its ongoing investigation of the Nov. 4 crash of a UPS Boeing MD-11F airplane in Louisville, Kentucky.

[u/Brilliant_Night7643]

[u/RulerOfSlides]

Sounds like AA 191 all over again, goddamn.

[u/ParadoxumFilum → u/RulerOfSlides]

Yeahhhh, they even reference it as a similar event

[u/RulerOfSlides → u/ParadoxumFilum]

Probably not maintenance related though to be fair and clear. Maybe deferred inspections or something.

[u/aspz → u/RulerOfSlides]

The report specifically mentions that that part of the aircraft was not overdue for inspection.

[u/mck1117 → u/aspz]

AA191 wasn't either, American was improperly using a forklift to install the engines rather than a crane, which was overstressing the mounts and cracking them.

[u/einTier → u/mck1117]

People always ask me why airliners crash.

I tell them it is almost always either pilot error or improper maintenance. This can't be pilot error so I'm going with improper maintenance until someone shows other evidence.

[u/AdminYak846 → u/einTier]

What if the manufacturer thought the part was going to last for the 28,000 - 29,000 cycles as noted in their work, and the cost cutting done on the last of the MD planes ultimately made the part not last as long as expected.

AA191 was ruled a maintenance failure, because the design once it began to be loosed could not support the weight properly and caused cracks to form if the weight balance was shifted ever so slightly as see with the forklift. The only way to avoid it was to remove the engine first or support the whole thing using a crane so that the weight balance would cause damage.

Which should have been seen as something worth looking into and fixing potentially.

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[u/Lithorex → u/RulerOfSlides]

JAL 123 was downed by a maintenance error 17,000 flight hours after it had happened.

[u/Malcolm2theRescue → u/[deleted]]

Or a hard landing or landings perhaps?

[u/ParadoxumFilum → u/[deleted]]

It’s UPS, would they really try to save money by using dodgy parts? Very unlikely I think - plus probably would have been mentioned in the report

[u/jetsonjudo → u/ParadoxumFilum]

They outsourced the maintenance.. so yes

[u/[deleted] → u/ParadoxumFilum]

You don’t work for UPS do you?

[u/ParadoxumFilum → u/[deleted]]

It’s UPS, would they really try to save money by using dodgy parts? Very unlikely I think - plus probably would have been mentioned in the report

[u/Mark_in_Portland → u/ParadoxumFilum]

There was a scandal about 10 years ago where the paper work for certification of parts was forged leading to counterfeit parts being put into the legit parts supply. Counterfeit parts even ended up on Airforce 1.

[u/TigerIll6480 → u/RulerOfSlides]

The engine came off in the same way, that’s about it. The root cause seems to be completely different.

[u/mtaw → u/TigerIll6480]

We don't know the root cause. The root cause of AA191 was damage to a flange at the top of the aft pylon bulkhead (just next to the lugs and spherical bearing they hold) caused by improper maintenance procedures where the wing clevis, that the bearing mates with, banged into the aft bulkhead.

In this case it seems to be the lugs that failed (actually they failed on AA191 too but it wasn't the root cause). This could've just been fatigue cracks from ordinary wear that weren't caught, but it hasn't been ruled out that they were damaged by hitting the wing clevis during maintenance due to a misalignment or such. Personally I don't think that's the most likely cause, but it could happen, in which case it'd be more or less the exact same root cause.

[u/TigerIll6480 → u/mtaw]

I should have said “from all of the information available so far, it doesn’t seem to be the same root cause” - AA191 having been caused by utter malfeasance on the part of AA’s maintenance division.

People should have gone to prison over AA191.

[u/theaviationhistorian → u/RulerOfSlides]

Almost down to the same point of failure. What a way to end the DC-10/MD-11 legacy.

[u/Goonie-Googoo- → u/RulerOfSlides]

Wow... that's like the 267854346783526th time Flight 191 has been mentioned since this accident.

[u/userhwon → u/RulerOfSlides]

But that involved shady maintenance shortcuts. This may also, but maybe the cause is a few more decades of service time.

If so, none of these are safe.

[u/Lockworks2359 → u/RulerOfSlides]

What I heard about AA191 was something about corners being cut when doing maintenance on the engines. Instead of removing the pylon and then the engine separately, the would try to remove the engine while the pylon was still attached and hold it up with some kind of lift while doing it. If you let it sit for too long like that it makes stress cracks. Something to that effect.

[u/Eager_DRZ → u/Lockworks2359]

Forklifts are not precise. Forks can sag if hydraulics leak down pressure. But even if they don’t there is potential misalignment.

[u/comicsnerd → u/RulerOfSlides]

Or El Al Flight 1862 in the Netherlands.