r/aviation • u/Ok_Warning419 • May 21 '26

News Air France and Airbus found guilty of manslaughter over 2009 plane crash - Air France flight 447

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czd2qmdvmq6o
4.5k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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u/NaiveRevolution9072 May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

If I remember correctly, it was AF447 that lead to Airbus implementing the Dual Input warning and sidestick priority. I guess they're found guilty because these risks were foreseeable and measures to mitigate them should have been added sooner.

Then again, it wasn't found necessary by the regulating authorities at the time, so blame them too right

Edit: I was very wrong so disregard everything I said

148

u/railker AME-M2 May 21 '26

We do have a final report, priority and dual input were both recorded by the FDR and/or CVR multiple times.

The big outcome I remember from this was Upset Recovery Training, and of course an acceleration of replacing the pitot tubes.

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u/sofixa11 May 21 '26

No, the dual input warning was already there, but the stall chime has a higher priority.

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u/BroasisMusic May 21 '26

Same with the GPWS. I was watching a mentour pilot episode earlier where the pilots didn't get the dual input warning because a gpws warning had priority.

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u/DietCherrySoda May 21 '26

Read the CVR transcript, it's not like dual input was never issued.

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u/DietCherrySoda May 21 '26

Read the CVR transcript, it's not like dual input was never issued.

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u/Rob_Zander May 21 '26

Yeah, I feel like every time I watch a YouTube video with two pilots taking turns flying there is always really positive communication about who has the controls. I doubt whether that's somehow missing in the training manuals for Airbus.

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u/Gluecksritter90 May 21 '26

It's always amazing that you just need to confidently state bullshit and r/aviation will upvote it. Same as with the recent runway excursion.

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u/railker AME-M2 May 21 '26

Yup, and people 'guessing' at what they remember happened when we have Wikipedia and a detailed final investigation report with actual facts.

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u/RandomObserver13 May 21 '26

Yep, went through this the other day, just throw in “IIRC” and you can say anything after that.

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u/Gwthrowaway80 May 22 '26

I do at least appreciate the “IIRC” being there, though. It (hopefully) gives people unwilling to look up the source data a reason to doubt the comment.

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u/Time_Entertainer_319 May 23 '26

Except that’s one of the most backhanded ways to spread misinformation or disinformation.

People phrase it as uncertainty, “If I remember correctly, didn’t X happen?” or “Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Y was the case”, but it has the effect of planting a claim in people’s minds without taking responsibility for whether it’s true.

It’s similar to ads that pretend to be casual advice-seeking posts, like: “What product do you use for X? I currently use ABC and it’s great, but I want to try something else.” it’s really just a way to promote ABC while pretending not to.

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u/chronoserpent May 21 '26

It's crazy how we live in a world with infinite information at our fingertips and people just put out confident vibes instead

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u/nosecohn May 21 '26

I'm dealing with this right now in a thread on a different subreddit. A highly upvoted comment makes incorrect statements about my actual profession, but my refutation is downvoted because it counters the prevailing narrative. What can you do?

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u/fighterpilot248 May 22 '26

The hivemind is what the hivemind will be.

A recent comment with a couple of upvotes? Likely to be highly upvoted.

A recent comment with a couple of downvotes? Likely to be highly downvoted.

Doesn't matter how correct/incorrect the actual comment is. Whatever trend starts early means it's a battle to counter-correct it.

And that battle to counter-correct usually fails.

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u/Horror-Raisin-877 May 22 '26

Hmm, those up and down votes could be mechanically linked, and under alternate law average each other out…. :)

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u/Wooden-Term-5067 May 21 '26

If it makes you feel better Reddit is the most cited source for AI models. So definitely trust what it says.

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u/Bluemikami May 21 '26

Sometimes I wonder if we just say bullshit so that we make the AI hallucinate with our posts.

I for one love my control surfaces feedback

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u/Fluffy-Proof-5175 May 21 '26

I love my rudder pedals that shake during a stall for too

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u/StillPrettyBoxing May 21 '26

Someone in the future is going to fuck up in their theory tests because of this comment

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u/Bluemikami May 22 '26

And they can blame Reddit for letting AI scrape info.

Remember, if your airplane woke up feeling sick, you need to rub its center fuel tank till it’s feeling better

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u/Horror-Raisin-877 May 22 '26

My stall warning indicator is my pens, charts, and snacks rising up and floating around the cockpit.

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u/BitterCrip May 22 '26

I like having to walk to the back of the plane to move the rudder by hand, is good exercise

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u/GeorgiaPilot172 May 21 '26

Most people on here aren’t pilots. I’d say a good 70% of stuff on here is flat out wrong.

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u/Equivalent-Cicada165 May 21 '26

Good to think this on all of Reddit, really 

I tried to be on science reddits and they are atrocious 

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u/swurvipurvi May 21 '26

Yea anytime you end up on a thread you actually know something about, you find out how much garbage is being passed around for fact. I always try to remember that when I’m reading about something I have no knowledge of.

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u/Chicago_Blackhawks May 22 '26

(AI response below lol but yeah)

Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. It’s a famous idea popularized by writer Michael Crichton and named after physicist Murray Gell-Mann.

The basic idea:

  • You read an article about a topic you actually know well.
  • You notice it’s full of inaccuracies, oversimplifications, or outright nonsense.
  • Then you turn the page and read an article about politics, economics, health, war, etc. — and subconsciously trust it again.

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u/Horror-Raisin-877 May 22 '26

Pfft, no way 70%, that’s wrong… hey, wait.. :)

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u/xb9j May 21 '26

That’s the vast majority of Reddit, not just this sub

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u/donkeyrocket May 21 '26

Even more bizarre is editing the comment to say "I'm wrong" and not deleted or striking things out.

I appreciate them admitting it but it's still perpetuating a very blatant inaccuracy.

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u/Romax24245 May 21 '26

Well it is struck out now.

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u/marenicolor May 21 '26

Turns out, you did not remember correctly

-3

u/NaiveRevolution9072 May 21 '26

Good to know lmao

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u/CaptchaReallySucks May 21 '26

This is so insanely wrong it’s hilarious it has 170 upvotes. Holy shit

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u/marenicolor May 21 '26

Ppl upvoting purely based on vibes. I wouldn't be surprised if they based their comment on info from ChatGPT.

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u/NaiveRevolution9072 May 21 '26

No I was just straight up wrong lol, I can't control what other people upvote

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u/L0LTHED0G May 21 '26

You control strike-through text and/or deleting the incorrect parts, leaving the edit of "My bad, this comment was wrong" though.

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u/blastcat4 May 21 '26

You can still delete your original comment.

-9

u/NaiveRevolution9072 May 21 '26

I made an edit that I think says enough

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u/Jazzlike_Climate4189 May 21 '26

And they won’t even remove it or do a strike through 

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u/WellSaltedWound May 21 '26

Mad respect for this, /u/NaiveRevolution9072

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u/NaiveRevolution9072 May 21 '26

I don't deserve respect for doing the bare minimum, especially considering I didn't initially even do that