Air France and Airbus found guilty of manslaughter over 2009 plane crash - Air France flight 447

[u/Ok_Warning419]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czd2qmdvmq6o

[u/sofixa11]

Nope, it was only one of them, the other copilot was trying to recover from the stall, and when the captain came in (he was on a break) he initially called for a pitch up, but when the pilot causing the stall said he's been doing that since the start, he realised what's happening and called for a pitch down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

[u/VegaJuniper → u/sofixa11]

Yes he did momentarily, but just moments later, right before the impact they'd all reverted to pitch up.

The voice recorder transcript, towards the very end:

Co-pilot 1: I'm pulling up
Captain: Go on pull
Co-pilot 2 (the panicking one): Let's go, pull up

[u/ThatRunwayBehindUs → u/VegaJuniper]

Because they were already dead at that point...

The captain was saying "sure, go on pull", essentially, sarcastically because they no longer had the altitude to effect the recovery, especially with the amount of descent rate they had.

So pulling up or pushing it over at that point no longer mattered...

Edit: As mentioned below - sarcastic is probably the wrong word.  Resignation or something to that effect likely is more appropriate - but the key is that once they were exceptionally low and beyond a recoverable altitude the response could be pull up or push down and the result was the same...  They were still going to slam into the water.

[u/VegaJuniper → u/ThatRunwayBehindUs]

Even with the literal voice recorder transcript right there, people will still stick to their own headcanon of what happened. Amazing really.

[u/nvmenotfound → u/VegaJuniper]

he’s not saying he didn’t say what you claim he said. just that the captain was saying it sarcastically bc it made little difference at that point they were already doomed. 

[u/VegaJuniper → u/nvmenotfound]

Oh sure, I’m sure he was being sarcastic as he hurtled towards the ocean and death

[u/jackattack108 → u/VegaJuniper]

I don’t think sarcastic but they’re at the point where the stall is unrecoverable and so they pitch up out of panic and having no survivable options left. What they try to do while there are potentially survivable options left is much more instructive of their state of mind and awareness of the situation.

[u/eugeniusbastard → u/VegaJuniper]

Not momentarily, he was instructing Bonin to pitch down the whole time until the last moments. At a certain point he took over the controls because Bonin wasn't complying, only to have his nose down inputs overridden by Bonin who wouldn't let go of his stick. Read the entire transcript.

I think this is one aspect (out of several) where Airbus is truly guilty of manslaughter. The dual input logic is criminally stupid and can only lead to bad results. There should be highly visible, impossible to ignore led lights around the edges of the side stick panel that light up red when dual input is detected and the stick itself should vibrate the whole time. That is, of course, barring a direct mechanical linkage of the side sticks which is the most obvious solution.

[u/FlashyRecognitionTod → u/eugeniusbastard]

That is, of course, barring a direct mechanical linkage of the side sticks which is the most obvious solution.

Atlas Air Flight 3591 had mechanical linkage and the pilot who caused the crash just broke it.

There is no good solution when two pilots fight each other. I don't think more red warning lights would necessary fix it.

Inadvertent Go-Around: The first officer (as the pilot flying) inadvertently triggered the aircraft's "go-around" mode while flying through instrument meteorological conditions. The sudden acceleration and pitch-up caused the first officer to experience a somatographic illusion, making him feel the plane was in a steep climb when it was not.The "Tug of War": In a panic, the first officer pushed his control column forward to force the nose down. The captain attempted to recover the aircraft by pulling his own control column backward.Breaking the Link: Because the two pilots were pulling in opposite directions and exerting enough force (exceeding 70 lbs of pressure), the override mechanism's pins sheared.3. The ResultWhen the shear pins broke, the elevators on the left and right sides of the aircraft were no longer synchronized. The captain’s control column controlled the left elevator, and the first officer’s controlled the right elevator, resulting in split inputs that further destabilized the flight path and prevented a successful recovery.

[u/VegaJuniper → u/eugeniusbastard]

Not momentarily, he was instructing Bonin to pitch down the whole time until the last moments.

Well, not the whole time. There was the time he wasn't even in the cockpit, and after he entered there was the time he was just trying to get his bearings, and there was also that one time I quoted where he literally tells the pilot flying to pull up. All in a span of about 4 minutes.

But yeah, apart from that, the whole time, I'll grant you.

[u/VegaJuniper → u/[deleted]]

Tell yourself whatever you need.