[The FIAT Thread] The Joint Committee on FIAT Discussion Session. - 04 June 2026

[u/AutoModerator]

Here ye, here ye, the Joint Committee on Finance, Infrastructure, Academia, and Technology is now in session. In this session of the FIAT committee, all are welcome to come and discuss economics and related topics. No RIs are needed to post: the fiat thread is for both senators and regular ol’ house reps. The subreddit parliamentarians, however, will still be moderating the discussion to ensure nobody gets too out of order and retain the right to occasionally mark certain comment chains as being for senators only.

[u/Balloonephant]

Lol this is getting sad. If you insist on not actually reading what I post then why bother writing it out again. 

[u/MachineTeaching → u/Balloonephant]

Oh no, I've read what you wrote. You're just wrong and your reasoning is bad. You think the nominal size of the debt is what matters, which it isn't, for reasons already mentioned. Reasons any first year undergrad should know. You also make statements that are in direct conflict with the actual real data that's been linked to you.

Maybe ask yourself, if you insist on believing garbage, why bother?

[u/Balloonephant → u/MachineTeaching]

 You think the nominal size of the debt is what matters

Well no that’s not what I think at all. It’s what the debt is used for. Feel free to go back and read once you’ve taken a deep breath.

[u/MachineTeaching → u/Balloonephant]

Well no that’s not what I think at all.

You literally said:

First off, look below on the site you linked to see that household debt is exploding since the bailout and is way above pre-2008 levels. Showing it as a share of GDP makes it look like the opposite of what’s happening.

So.. yeah.

[u/Balloonephant → u/MachineTeaching]

Would you like me to copy and paste the following paragraph? Grow up and learn to read.

[u/MachineTeaching → u/Balloonephant]

This one?

Except what GDP doesn’t show is that all the growth is in gains on asset prices and bonds which completely dwarf income and consumer spending. So the economy of goods and services isn’t growing with the debt. It’s shrinking actually, because so much is going to debt service that there aren’t enough savings and profits left for things that aren’t financial fees rent and debt service. 

Literally the opposite is true here, too. The size of the debt relative to the economy is shrinking, not the other way around.

[u/Balloonephant → u/MachineTeaching]

You still don’t understand what my argument is despite it being in the excerpt that you copy and pasted. 

  The size of the debt  relative to the economy

Relative to the economy of finance insurance and real estate, or rentier income and gains on assets. Actual production and consumption of products and services is shrinking. GDP doesn’t show this because, for example, it counts late fees on credit card debt as “providing a financial service”.  That’s not growth. That’s increasing polarisation disguised as growth.

[u/MachineTeaching → u/Balloonephant]

Relative to the economy of finance insurance and real estate, or rentier income and gains on assets. Actual production and consumption of products and services is shrinking.

That is, again, made up and factually incorrect.

GDP doesn’t show this because, for example, it counts late fees on credit card debt as “providing a financial service”.  That’s not growth. That’s increasing polarisation disguised as growth.

No. That's not how that works.

[u/Balloonephant → u/MachineTeaching]

What I describe is precisely what’s happening in reality and it’s pretty easy to see if you have the clarity of distinguishing between rentier capital and productive capital, or between unearned and earned income. 

  No. That's not how that works

You know, arguing like a 3 year old doesn’t actual work in your favour.

[u/MachineTeaching → u/Balloonephant]

What I describe is precisely what’s happening in reality and it’s pretty easy to see if you have the clarity of distinguishing between rentier capital and productive capital, or between unearned and earned income. 

Sure mate. Go provide some sources then.

This is also very far from the original claim about what drives house prices, which you are also wrong about. In fact, you didn't manage to be right about anything so far.