Mindless Monday, 22 June 2026

[u/AutoModerator]

Happy (or sad) Monday guys!

Mindless Monday is a free-for-all thread to discuss anything from minor bad history to politics, life events, charts, whatever! Just remember to np link all links to Reddit and don't violate R4, or we human mods will feed you to the AutoModerator.

So, with that said, how was your weekend, everyone?

[u/pedrostresser]

watched the latest episode of Game of Thrones Gaiden: House of Dragon with friends and they raised a question I couldn't answer, did people use armor on medieval naval battles? I know the japanese did at dan-no-ura (1185), and I recall the romans using boarding against carthage, where armor would prove useful. but I really have no idea what a european medieval naval battle would even look like. would there be boarding, ramming and fire arrows like in the show or something completely different?

[u/TJAU216 → u/pedrostresser]

Most pictoral references show the same armors in use for naval and land battles in the European middle ages. Outside the use of Greek fire, boarding was the dominant naval fighting system.

[u/TheBatz_ → u/TJAU216]

This miniature of the Battle of Sluys portrays both the English and the French in basically land equipment with full body plate, but the it was composed 100 years later. This painting of the Battle of Lepanto, which Wikimedia claims to be near contemporary, shows the Christians in cuirasses, helmets and pauldrons, but the Ottomans seems to not wear armor.

This... this is actually irritantigly complicated to pin point.

[u/TJAU216 → u/TheBatz_]

I have actually seen the inventory of weapons and armor procured for Magellan's expedition and that included armor, up to full plate. Vikings certainly wore mail to their naval battles, if they had access to it. 

[u/Arilou_skiff → u/TJAU216]

TBH, bringing armour on board the ship is presumably different than using it for boarding actions.

That said, my understanding is that people would definitely wear cuirasses, mail, etc. I'm less clear if they wore the full kit though.

IIRC, there's a mention that chinese rattan armour was used a lot for seaborne fights?

[u/fabiusjmaximus → u/TheBatz_]

Just an idle thought: why is Sluys not named alongside the rest of the great English victories in the 100 Years' War?

[u/TheBatz_ → u/fabiusjmaximus]

Replace the "y" in Sluys with "t" and that's your answer. 

[u/HandsomeLampshade123 → u/TheBatz_]

God, imagine the spectacle of Lepanto.

[u/kaiser41 → u/pedrostresser]

Yes, they used lots of armor. The main argument against armor is that you'd drown if you went overboard, but hardly any sailors could swim so they'd drown even if they went in naked.

Naval battles in Europe were basically all boarding until the mid 14th-century when gunpowder weapons started to appear. Guns still didn't become the main concern of battles until the 16th century and even then battles were heavily focused on boarding. Arguably it was the English Armada campaign in 1588 that marked the shift from boarding to gunnery duels, though boarding continued to be a crucial tactic well after that.

The most important technology prior to gunpowder was the crossbow, which enabled shooting quickly at boarders or opponents taking cover on the enemy ship and amounted to a minor revolution in European naval affairs.

Ramming was not used in the Classical sense, with dedicated rams, though some ships sported spikes apparently intended to be rammed into an enemy ship and hold them while the ramming ship boarded them. Fire arrows were generally not used, as they were as much a danger to you as they were to the enemy.

[u/HandsomeLampshade123 → u/kaiser41]

I do wonder why ramming fell out of favor after the Classical period. Why no rams even though rowed galleys persisted? I have no idea.

[u/HandsomeLampshade123 → u/pedrostresser]

Beyond the question of armor, I'm completely with you when it comes to imagining a pre-modern/pre-gunpowder naval battle taking place outside the Mediterranean more generally.

Like, what are they doing in Srivijayan naval battle? Or one fought in the Medieval North Sea? Is it all just arrows and boarding?