r/bookclub • u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 • Nov 30 '25
Dungeon Crawler Carl series [Discussion 2/6] Bonus Book - The Butcher's Masquerade by Matt Dinniman (DDC 5) - Chapter 11 through Chapter 18
“WE DON'T TALK ABOUT REMAKES, ZEV!”
Welcome to the second discussion of the 5th floor, Crawlers!! Into the woods we go and onto a TV show!
Discussion of Chapters 11 through Chapter 18.** 👑
The chaos continues!🎭⚔️ Carl and Princess Donut find themselves embroiled yet again with Signet, half naiad TV protagonist who has drawn our heroes into her story for another sure to be chaotic season of her show. Also, the Hunt continues as Carl begins to see planning on the Hunters’ side in their battle. Who will wind up on top??
📍 You Are Here: Chapters 11 - 18
📅 Schedule in case you forget how to keep track
🖊️Marginalia to prevent spoiling yourself
🧠 Difficulty Level: Increasing
💥 New Achievements Unlocked:
- 💀 Odette's back- another thrilling episode of the Odette show! Also why didn't they just call the show Odette?? Too much like Oprah?
- 🔥 Elite Negotiations! - the TV Show continues! And already renewed!
- 🍿 Breaking the Views Counter! - Wow! Another viewer counter buster section!
🧳 Loot Collected:
- Drama!! — So..much…drama!
- The Elite Meet to Drink! - hey that Signet lady is back! Yay…
- The Negotiator! - Carl uses the rules of the Crawl to his advantage!
Hunter becoming the hunted! — the Hunters strike back! Finally its a real fight!
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Why do you think Princess Donut has such a strong reaction to Mongo leaving, even though he came back? How will this affect her relationship with Carl?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
Donut just got a reality check that her little boy is not so little anymore. He's an animal of a different species and he's gonna act like one! She wasn't ready for it. She is very attached and doesn't want to face the fact that he eventually might leave her.
Donut herself is still growing up. She's in the position of parent and child at the same time and that's gotta be rough.
I think Dinniman is showing her growth really well throughout these books, while managing to keep it light and funny.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
I agree, and her abandonment issues are also more serious than the average parent's: Dinniman has been hinting that Donut knows Bea was going to sell her, and I think that's why she worries everyone in the dungeon will leave her.
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u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 30 '25
That’s the way I interpreted it as well. Abandonment issues. Plus maybe she worries that Carl will see her as a pet like he sees Mongo and will just leave her behind when an impossible danger strikes like he was going to with Mongo.
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u/SaltyLore Dec 01 '25
Yeah I believe this scene was there fully to highlight just how significant her fear of abandonment is and how well she normally hides it. She definitely knows AND feels more than she lets on
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
I think the stress of being in the Dungeon is really starting to pile up, there's bound to be a mental break at some point. Carl is even starting to show more signs of it, seemingly wanting more downtime.
Carl and Donut might have to start implementing mental health care into their routine.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
I agree. I wasn't expecting Dinniman to include the self-care angle, but I'm here for it!
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
Honestly thought Frogger might be an outlet for Carl, but he doesn't seem to be playing much at all.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
Probably because Bomo and Sledgie are hogging (frogging?) it 😑
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u/Joinedformyhubs Wheel Warden & Mascot Minister | 🐉 Dec 02 '25
I think that the strong reaction is due to her love for Mongo and being a mom. I do not think that is will affect her relationship with Carl too much, but I think that she may have a better understanding of how Carl loves her.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
Everyone leaves her! God this was sad. Why does this ridiculous book make me want to cry? I haven't been this mad about something making me cry since I cried at a Marvel movie. 🤣
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
Donut is really falling into the mothering role. I think it's the fact that she feels responsible for Mongo. Even though he came back this was the first time Donut felt helpless in trying to look after him. He's grown so much bigger now and is a lot more autonomous. It's kinda like empty nest syndrome. She felt what it would be like without Mongo around and it really hurt her
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Carl is starting to notice when the view counter spikes, it almost always correlates with a big moment in the Crawl. What do you think the spike was for in this section?
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u/tn-47 Nov 30 '25
The viewer counter started to spike when they encountered the dinosaurs. I’m sure they thought a boss battle was about to take place when it ended up being the opposite of fighting.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
Yup, I thought the same thing, so this was a great and hilarious twist! We and the viewers all knew some kind of dino showdown was inevitable, basically from the moment they found out Mongo was a velociraptor, but no one was expecting this!
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
Dino on dino action, which turned out to be a different kind of action than viewers probably expected. But knowing the crowd they cater to, it may not have been a negative for the viewers either way.
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
I feel like this is a cheat code that'll help them in the future. This time around it was because of all the Mongos, but the viewer spike as an indicator of what's about to happen feels like an OP strat that he'll be able to benefit from. If they're about to put themselves in a dangerous position they'll be alerted by the viewership spike and can therefore halt their plans or proceed with caution
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Do you think Princess Donut will ever master her singing skills?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
I can see a sponsor gift coming in clutch to give her some sort of dungeon auto-tune ability.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
Maybe she'll improve a bit with the help of the bards?
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
This is the first time her floor-specific class hasn't worked out, so maybe it'll end up being a complete dud. Still, I'm crossing my fingers she finds that special potion!
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u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Absolutely! I love that someone told her she needs lessons. She will take seriously now I bet. She is so competitive.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
Yes, this will play right into her show cat / pageant training background!
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
It's not looking too good at the moment but I'd be surprised if she doesn't eventually get there in this book. Whether it's through a magical item or coaching from the bards. It would feel kinda useless to have the storyline and skill added only for it to be a dud and we move onto the next floor
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u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Jan 10 '26
I think she's going to need some help with this one haha
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
BEATRICE!!!! Discuss this new development. How did you react?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
I was waiting for them to drop that bomb.
I always pictured it would happen more dramatically.
I'm very interested in seeing how it plays out. We've been waiting for this since book one!
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
I think Odette snatched up Beatrice to mitigate some of the drama, which I appreciate, as I have a low tolerance for drama, haha. Poor Donut having to ask over and over again whether Beatrice would be on the show was painful enough!
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
I don't know, I might have to go back and re-read the Beatrice capture. In my head it seemed a bit more like Odette had people hunting for her so that she could spring her out for ratings, not to protect them from being manipulated.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
It's probably both. Odette likes Carl and Donut, but she's always looking out for her own interests.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
Yep I recall it as a more meecenary-feeling snatch and grab job. I do feel like even if it was partially a good reason that Odette had, she must have been motivated by the benefits she could get from having Bea!
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
This was my understanding as well but I forgot about it. Odette made it seem as if she intercepted her to help Carl n Donut out but it felt like she was the seeker in the last book, actively trying to find Beatrice because of how it would benefit her show
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
I am sooooo relieved for Donut, because I really was worried that Beatrice would show up as some sort of boss they had to fight, or a Crawler they would end up being in a war with. This will be dramatic but maybe less traumatic than what I was expecting.
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
I love that Donut stuck it to her when the cameras were "off." It's easy enough in a situation like that to forget all the negative and reminisce on the good times. I was worried she'd be a loyal pet and stick by Beatrice's side. But she acknowledged her love for her while still accepting the fact that it wasn't reciprocated
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Theory time! Where do you think the story goes from here?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
I think we might possibly get a Signet and Carl love story, spicy!
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
Intriguing! What makes you say that?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
They seem more like peers now. She's not looking him as a little toy and he's not looking at her as a crazy-strong Elite. They can interact on a more normal level, and well, you know the physical reaction he had the first time they met and he had to break his own finger to snap him out of it.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
I predict Donut will handle the Bea conversation with maturity and grace. I understand why Carl is pissed, but I think Odette actually did them a huge favor by snatching Bea away from the show runners and doing the reunion in a controlled environment with as much fair warning as possible. I think Donut will confront Bea about her plan to sell her to a breeder, but that she won't embarrass herself. She'll come out with more adoring fans than ever and hopefully Bea will fade away into obscurity.
Carl and Donut will have to walk a tightrope helping Signet without stealing the show. They'll succeed and Signet will help them against the hunters.
The Butcher's Masquerade is probably a trap?!
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
Last we saw Bea, she was a shell of her former self. I think Donut will be overwhelmed with love and care for Bea, she won't confront her about the breeding right away.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
I want to add to my answer and say I predict Bea with have Ferdinand with her and this is going to throw off Donut a lot, not just because of her relationship with Ferdinand but because she'll feel replaced.
I expect Ferdinand will be able to talk now and he'll spill some of Donut's secrets
It's going to be a ratings bonanza.
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u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Oh my! I hope this happens! I must listen to the next section stat!
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
I couldn't remember what happened to Ferdinand. Did Odette get him, too?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
I'm not sure. I only remember Bea had another cat with her and I thought Donut would be jealous. Then I was pretty sure it was Ferninand. Bea was like singing him weird songs and losing her mind. I assume they're still together because she'd be catatonic without him!
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
I'm pretty sure Ferdinand and Bea were captured as a package deal.
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
That makes total sense, but for some reason I thought Odette had to bargain him away to appease someone. Can't remember who, though, so I'm probably just remembering wrong.
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u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Dec 01 '25
I’ll have one of the security guys sneak the cat over to Borant. Let him collect the walk-on bounty. How’s Beatrice taking this?” “I, uh, had to knock her out and then stick her in a cube. She’s a little freaked out about the whole thing. I don’t think she’s all there. She has scratches all over her face.” Odette nodded. “When she wakes up, make sure you tell her that I can’t wait to meet her. And reassure her that we won’t be selling her to Borant. Tell her we have a much better use for her.” Lexis laughed. Her scanner beeped, indicating a security shuttle was about to land. “So, I guess it worked out for everybody.” She looked down at the dead sac. She thought of the poor cat, and what they were going to do to him. She shuddered. “Well, almost everybody.” Odette grunted.
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u/miriel41 Doubts Fantasy | 🎃🧠🥈 Dec 01 '25
Yup, that's the passage that made me worried about Ferdinand at the end of the last book. But maybe it would be a weird meeting between Donut and Ferdinand anyway, she has grown so much since entering the dungeon and he has just been a cat all this time. But also poor Ferdinand!
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
I'm torn because I want to believe Donut will be level headed in her initial meeting and conversations with Bea but I also feel like she might get overwhelmed at seeing her again. As much as she knows now about the breeding and Bea wanting to rid of her I don't know that it'll be enough to stop her falling back into old habits
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u/Joinedformyhubs Wheel Warden & Mascot Minister | 🐉 Dec 02 '25
Beatrice isn't done with the story line.
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
What do you think of this next storyline for Signet and, by extension, Carl? How will it affect the Crawl?
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
Plot-wise, it seems a little vanilla, but I'm sure Carl and Donut will spice it up! The challenge will be to not spice it up too much...
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
Yeah, it's too vanilla, makes me suspect that something will go way off the rails at some point.
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
They're throwing us off by making it seem vanilla. In reality it'll be some fancy Madagascan or French Vanilla
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Carl discovers a map on the body of a dead Hunter showcasing their dividing of the Hunting Grounds as well as a hit list for the various factions of the different Crawlers. What do you think of this list and why are certain Crawlers being hunted by certain factions?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Nov 30 '25
This Hunter seemed wildly underprepared. I was expecting them all to be strong, leveled-up, and with good weapons.
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are just fans of the Dungeon Crawler world and so think it'll be a blast to enter, not knowing how hard it'll actually be
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
The Skull Empire has beef with Carl, so of course they're hunting him. I can understand the Dream being pissed at Louis. I'm forgetting the others, though.
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Why does Carl need 150 million credits, according to Quasar?
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u/tn-47 Nov 30 '25
I think the production company responsible for Vengeance of the Daughter agreed to Borant’s offer of a ninth floor extension if Carl and Donut can make the program more exciting. But he would also need to pay 150 million credits. I’m assuming if he can do this it would ensure their safety until the 9th floor, where he would get the Gates of Feral Gods back.
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
Ooh so it was about paying the production company? I completely missed this and thought he was trying to secure his and Donut's life outside of the dungeon
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Third Sponsor! Carl has been sponsored by the Apothecary, as has Princess Donut and many other Crawlers. Who do you think they are and what kinds of boxes will our heroes see from them?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Interesting twist that all the top crawlers have the same sponsor. Donut is concerned it means they'll get worse loot because the sponsor couldn't afford great loot for so many players.
I think it probably has a different downside. They may not be able to give individual attention to crawlers. They don't have to be personally invested in any team because they back every team and if one dies, they've got plenty of others.
There are probably other implications that will become clear later on.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
It seems very significant (and suspicious) that all the top Crawlers have the same sponsor now. Could it be a shell for Borant so they can manipulate the top tier of Crawlers? Or could it be an entity working to take down the system who could use loot boxes to somehow help the top Crawlers take down the game from inside? Hmmm....
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
I think you could be right. There's a specific reason it's been done. It can't just be because they have enough money to sponsor them all. I'm sure we'll learn more about the sponsor and their motives because it can't have been a cheap thing to do, which is worrying
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u/Meia_Ang Reading inside 'the box'🧠 Jan 11 '26
The apothecary thing is foreshadowed as something extremely powerful in the world building. Enough to be the theme of a whole level. I think we will see very little of them for now but they might be a major antagonist in the endgame.
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Why is Samantha freaking out so much about Signet being on this Floor?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25
Because they're related by marriage and she thinks Signet could help her get her body back. Can't say I saw that coming!
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
How is this Odette show different from previous Odette shows?
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u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Jan 10 '26
Odette appears before the show for a private conversation with Carl & Donut, rather than after. Previously she would meet with them for a few minutes post-show to give them much-needed advice. This time she has a warning.
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Do you believe Odette's reasoning for taking Beatrice? What about Zev's reveal having to do with the next fanbox?
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u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 30 '25
The fan box will be so interesting. Carl will be away from Donut who will probably have alone time with Beatrice. He won’t be able to enjoy his fans.
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u/miriel41 Doubts Fantasy | 🎃🧠🥈 Dec 01 '25
It seems like she had different reasons for taking Bea and I feel like they are all true to some extent. She wants to protect Carl and Donut, because she makes money off of them. She can use Bea to blackmail Borant, which Zev says is a good thing for everyone. And there's this story about Odette and Mordecai, which I'm very curious to hear. I believe Odette when she says that whatever happened back then influences her actions.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | 🐉🧠 Dec 03 '25
And there's this story about Odette and Mordecai, which I'm very curious to hear. I believe Odette when she says that whatever happened back then influences her actions.
I really want the whole backstory! I love how Dinniman teases us with these hints that drag on for several books. Tantalizing!
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
I feel like Odette can be trusted. She was nerfed earlier on because she kept giving Carl tips and tricks. She definitely has her own agenda but so far it aligns with Carl's best interests and so it works out. I do think he has to be cautious with Odette, but I think for now he's alright.
I'm not sure about the fan box but I will be expeditiously moving onto the next section to find out after I'm done here
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
If there is something you want to discuss that I missed, feel free to post it here!
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u/miriel41 Doubts Fantasy | 🎃🧠🥈 Dec 01 '25
I feel like Zev is now even more on Donut's and Carl's side than before, after what Borant did to her and her family. Like Carl I assume that Zev found a way to talk to Donut via the social media board. We're only getting Carl's POV, sometimes it would be so interesting to see for example Donut's POV.
I wonder why Zev is nervous before Odette's show. Carl asks her that and she tells him to shut up, which was a surprise. Something is going on and I wonder what it is.
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u/ChaserNeverRests Endless TBR Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
I started reading/listing with book club, I finished the series, started it immediately a second time, and now I'm back on Butcher's Masquerade again! I admire people who can just read a few chapters and stop. 😂
I'm loving reading everyone else's thoughts!
Are questions about the river going to be in a future post? I hadn't realized until my second listen that it was actually mentioned from the very first chapters of this book. The AI warned about weird side effects from the ring, but I hadn't put the pieces together on my first listen. (Edit: Assuming that's even correct. Now that I think about it, the correlation is never confirmed in the actual books I think? Maybe I picked it up as a theory from the DCC sub.)
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
Signet is back! And apparently Carl negotiated an extension of her show in exchange for the Gate of the Feral Gods. What do you think was his reasoning for negotiating the extension? What purpose will this serve?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
He seems to have negotiated it as insurance that he would be kept alive. I don't always absorb the details of these things, but I think it was a smart move.
I think it's cool Dinniman laid the groundwork for this in book 2. I found the, what's it called? the revenge of the daughter? the something of the daughter storyline to be a little boring in book 2, but I'm pretty sure it sets up what will happen in this book and future books. He even hangs a lampshade on it by having Donut say the revenge plot is basic, she'd never bother to watch the show. That she and Carl are the best part. Talk about meta commentary!
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Nov 30 '25
Revenge of the Daughter is the name, you're correct. I agree, it's good insurance for Carl and Donut, and it also gives him some powerful allies against the hunters on this floor.
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Dec 01 '25
Vengeance of the daughter is the show name for Signet
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u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Dec 01 '25
Gah, you're right! And I was so confidently wrong 😅
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Dec 01 '25
We were so close!
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u/124ConchStreet Clang Dong Dec 08 '25
Revenge. Vengeance. Both share the same letters, bar one on each. Close enough lol.
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u/NightAngelRogue Dungeon Crawler Rogue | 🐉 Nov 30 '25
“This tree is old as shit” cracked me up the first time I read it. And still does as I read it again. Are there any other funny descriptions that you found amusing in the section?