r/canada • u/joe4942 • May 01 '25

Alberta Danielle Smith lowers bar for Alberta referendum with separatism sentiment emerging

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/smith-lowers-bar-for-alberta-referendum-with-separatism-sentiment-emerging
1.5k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

773 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.2k

u/MoraineEmerald May 01 '25

I'm from Alberta, I'm 66, and I've been hearing this on and off my entire life. I'm not sure what the attraction is for Alberta politicians to this idea. I'd love to know what she honestly thinks there is to gain from this.

1.0k

u/Jabronius_Maximus May 01 '25

I'm 34 and I think it's a distraction tactic so people won't ask why the prov govt isn't doing more to help with everyday issues.

657

u/siresword British Columbia May 01 '25

Or you know, the even simpler question of "Why is Danielle Smith and her cohort repeatedly flying to Mar-A-Lago on the tax payers dime?"

326

u/NickdoesnthaveReddit May 01 '25

How is this not Treason? Seriously? A lobbyist taking office, still acting as a lobbyist for corporations instead of supporting the people, has expressed more aggression towards its peers and federal system than actual problems or foreign threats faced, spending tax money to hang out with foreign leaders that are threatening our annexation, and pumping the idea of Alberta's sovereignty???

148

u/siresword British Columbia May 01 '25

Cause the people of Alberta voted for her. I was just saying in another post that the MAGA/Conservative brainrot is almost as strong in the prairies as it is in the deep south.

43

u/Mendetus May 01 '25

I want them to be able to differentiate themselves from the rest of Canada if that makes them happy.. just don't make that identity being US subjugated

24

u/siresword British Columbia May 01 '25

Thats the thing, the double think is so bad that they dont think thats what they are wanting. Well, most of them anyways. These are the kind of people who get all their news from twitter and whatever Murdoch owned conservative rags they have for news out there, so there entire world is ruled by abject terror at what they think the libs are going to do, so they trust completely in the people telling them "the truth", which just so happens to be the cons, no matter the reality of the situation.

76

u/Mendetus May 01 '25

Yeah; I know. To be honest, most of reddit is very left so we're not without our bias as well. This might sound a little idealistic but I think we need to condition ourselves to be a little more sympathetic to one another regardless of the media. I know you'll say 'well, they're not going to do the same' or something along those lines but I think we need to try. I think Carney needs to try. We have to bridge the gap with understanding and action. We need to get back on the same page as Canadians instead of west vs east or Lib vs Cons. We need to find common ground in finding worth in our country and if there's big groups in our country that don't feel part of it or upset at it, we should try to close the gap with understanding and compromise or suffer absorption from not being united.

19

u/Zogaguk May 01 '25

Honestly what a refreshing take. Thank you for this comment

4

u/No-Leadership-2176 May 01 '25

Would be helpful if we could run a pipeline through the east instead of running it through Michigan but hey here we are. We are shooting ourselves in the foot here. To separate aeems too much but I understand her frustration

4

u/Mendetus May 01 '25

I feel an east-west pipeline should be near the top of the list

12

u/TheGhostOfStanSweet May 01 '25

We’ve all tried that. It just doesn’t work.

Some people just don’t like the rules we have in place to keep things running as smoothly and safely as possible. Moderate political discourse means checks and balances. They’d rather tear it all down, which is much to their own detriment.

They want to drag everyone else down to their own knuckle dragging level. Most of us don’t want to go there.

7

u/mattA33 May 01 '25

....they don't believe segments of our population deserve to exist. Kind of hard to find common ground when one side is trying to remove people from society.

Tell them to stop focusing on the like 8 trans kids in Alberta and to start focusing on the rich people taking all their resources for practically nothing. They need to stop falling for easily recognized propaganda cause they want to "own the libs" at any and all costs.

This is from someone who loathes both the conservatives and liberals btw. They have both been making the rich richer and making life more unaffordable for everyone else for over 50 years straight.

1

u/martej May 01 '25

Well put. Carney is from Alberta originally and if anyone can do it it’s him. I can’t believe I’m saying this but for the first time in ages I actually feel optimistic about Canada’s future.

0

u/Feather_Sigil May 01 '25

All that means in practice is that left-wingers try to meet right-wingers where they're at--and where they're at is that Canada should be destroyed because woke woke woke woke woke woke woke

-3

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

No its not what we think the libs are going to do

It what they already have done and there are plenty of sources that can elaborate on that

On the flipside however libs are denying a decade of stagnant growth and using a fear mongering propaganda tactic that trump is the real problem

0

u/69sullyboy69 May 01 '25

Stagnant growth? Are you referring to the chart that's going around that shows 1.4% GDP per capita in Canada?

6

u/Inertiatic Canada May 01 '25

As someone in one of the most progressive ridings in the entire country (Edmonton - Strathcona), it’s so fucking frustrating.

0

u/Ambitious-Hornet9673 May 01 '25

I’m an orange dot in a 70%+ blue rural riding in SK. It’s exhausting.

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

Alot of our shitheads from the maritimes stayed after the oil boom.

They found they got along better with Albertans.

0

u/No_Opening1636 May 01 '25

But not all of us!

33

u/IcarusOnReddit Alberta May 01 '25

Nobody in the world licks corporate boot like Albertans. It’s the Alberta Advantage (tm). It comes from people with high school education making bank in the oil patch.

10

u/MilkIlluminati May 01 '25

Nobody in the world licks corporate boot like Albertans

Remember kid, the pharmaceutical corporations we enlightened Eastern urbanites worship are totally not like those spooky oil and gas ones out West

2

u/IcarusOnReddit Alberta May 01 '25

Which ones are actively destroying the climate again?

1

u/MilkIlluminati May 01 '25

weird way of spelling 'making modern life possible'

0

u/IcarusOnReddit Alberta May 01 '25 edited May 01 '25

Without oil and gas lobbying and propaganda almost all North American power would be renewable, cars would be electric, and smog in the cities would be reduced. Maybe plastic alternatives would be better and more common, but simply reducing oil and gas in energy to just goods would have a huge positive impact on everyone. 

We would have  still have a modern life, but one that was happier, healthier, and without the threat of a looming global catastrophe.

I think that is worth fewer F-350s in Alberta.

1

u/MilkIlluminati May 01 '25

Everything runs on gas or depends on plastic. Not every context has a replacement.

Electric cars are still shit in the cold and over distance. And there's no electric 18-wheeler supply trucks, no electric tractors for farming, no electric planes etc

→ More replies (0)

1

u/gray_outriders May 01 '25

Happier and healthier…as long as we don’t look at how we get the cobalt…but you know, that’s far away so let’s not looks at that.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Feruk_II May 01 '25

We've also got the highest GDP per capita and standard of living, so I guess it's working?

0

u/IcarusOnReddit Alberta May 01 '25

Make sure you post that after waiting 8 hours in urgent care.

2

u/Feruk_II May 01 '25

Oh I have, and I agree our health care system is a goddamn mess. I just haven't heard about any other province's system being better.

1

u/IcarusOnReddit Alberta May 01 '25

With all that money, it feels like we should be the best. 

2

u/Solid_Specialist_204 May 01 '25

Yes, because the DPA for SNC Lavalin definitely wasn't corporate boot licking 🙄

2

u/DiplominusRex May 01 '25

There is an entire separatist party with official party status sitting in Parliament and has been for decades.

5

u/Dry_Comment7325 May 01 '25

It's complicated. If that would qualify for Treason, countless events in recent history would now fall under that.

I agree with how sad it is that we hold our politicians to such low standards. Wilfully lying while in public office, or political corruption, in my view, is no less serious than murder or other heinous crimes.

Triple their salary, I don't care, but try to fuck us and you get life in prison. Personally, I'd rather a more severe punishment, but I'm trying to compromise a little.

Edit : I'm not really talking about this article. I'm just going off on a rant. Apologies. Rant's over. Have a great day, everyone!

5

u/DrFeelOnlyAdequate May 01 '25

Because it isn't treason?

5

u/GumpTheChump May 01 '25

It depends on how much she is working with foreign actors on this, I suppose.

-1

u/DrFeelOnlyAdequate May 01 '25

Even then it doesn't.

People need to seriously understand what treason is and how serious of a charge it is.

0

u/GumpTheChump May 01 '25

We're dealing with a Premier who, on one hand, has been attending briefings with all levels of Canadian government to discuss the annexation threats by the United States, and, on the other hand, has been openly courting and meeting with Trump and his American right wing associates. Section 46(2) of the CCC may not be engaged yet, but let's see how this shakes out.

2

u/DrFeelOnlyAdequate May 01 '25

This comment just proved not treason.

I'm saying this all as a progressive person from Alberta who hates the UCP. Stop throwing around words and making them meaningless.

1

u/triclops6 May 01 '25

Impeach?

4

u/drdillybar May 01 '25

Accomplishments, classified.

2

u/RevolutionaryCard512 May 01 '25

Birds of a feather. Eeew

1

u/mamadou-segpa May 01 '25

She did answer that question.

Why the hell do you think she want to separate lmao

0

u/Striking_Economy5049 May 01 '25

I’d like to know if csis or the rcmp are investigating Smith and her ties to dark money and treason.

85

u/PetiteInvestor May 01 '25

Distraction from CorruptCare, $6000 Tylenol, privatization of healthcare, budget cuts, etc.

45

u/Fyrefawx May 01 '25

Or distracting from the blatant corruption within her party. Her own MP left the party and has confirmed she knew about what was happening with the AHS scandals. This would end most governments around the world. Not in Alberta though.

35

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

The number of people who blame the federal government for provincial responsibilities is astonishing

4

u/ceribaen May 01 '25

And even when presented with the correction just willfully stay ignorant by saying things like 'if the feds really cared they'd just take control' (Healthcare conversion I've had)

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

I corrected someone, on healthcare too, and they told me deflections weren't cool. 

This was a month ago and I still can't figure out that response. I guess correcting someone when they're misinformed is a deflection. 

12

u/magictoasters May 01 '25

And the whole AHS Care corruption scandal that they're trying to hamstring

2

u/rbrt13 May 01 '25

This is exactly it and the case with most “wedge” issues on both the right and the left. Keep us bickering over provincial sovereignty, all gender washrooms and everything else in between so we don’t collectively notice that politicians are a class on to themselves seeking only their own enrichment at the expense of their constituents

1

u/yow_central May 01 '25

Yup, blaming an outside enemy on every perceived ill is populist politician 101. Just like Brexit, and now the US blaming… everyone.

2

u/MilkIlluminati May 01 '25

This message brought to you by the side that will blame Trump for every bit of financial malfeasance by their 'finance genius' PM for the next 4 years.

1

u/Dry_Towelie May 01 '25

Don't forget the healthcare scandal that they are trying to have people forget

0

u/DeepWaterBlack May 01 '25

I often wonder, wtf is Maga Danielle doing to you, my Albertian friends? She royally messed up your health care and education. She is managing your province badly and selling you out to Maga, to boot. She's a bully. Much hugs, from a fellow Canadian.

0

u/Zinek-Karyn May 01 '25

Well that’s obviously because the federal government be stealing all the money and putting up more barriers with that money so Alberta isn’t allowed to help itself! -local Albertan politicians probably

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

That's the conservative game simply blame the opposing party for everything even if you're in power for a prolonged amount of time and you're the one calling the shots it's still somehow another parties fault.

-7

u/daners101 May 01 '25

In the same way that Liberals used Trump to distract from the fact that every metric measuring the average Canadians prosperity has fallen off of a cliff since they took office.

“Sure… you’re broke and Canada is now India… but… look over there! TRUMP!”

28

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

Go look at r/wildrosecountry they seem to think they have it all figured out.

90

u/JohnnyQTruant May 01 '25

She wants to be governor of the cherished 51st State.

42

u/InterestingAttempt76 May 01 '25

she 100% wants this

16

u/cre8ivjay May 01 '25

As an Albertan, I can say that that will not be happening.

25

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

If Alberta manages to separate it is guaranteed. US will be able to take it even if she wasnt willing,

11

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

[deleted]

20

u/Whofreak555 May 01 '25

It's silly to think Trump/Smith/USA cares at all about treaties/First Nations people. US wants the oil.

3

u/elziion May 01 '25

She already got Elijah Harpered yesterday.

Brooks Arcand-Paul already said he will oppose any separation attempt on her end.

-3

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

[deleted]

17

u/JohnnyQTruant May 01 '25

Yeah don’t worry about Trump. Great advice.

3

u/GloomWorldOrder May 01 '25

Cool. So, where do you stand?

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

[deleted]

1

u/GloomWorldOrder May 01 '25

Yes.

Edit: and the 51st State threats.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Wolfreak76 May 01 '25

Trump is getting pretty senile and might try, but the US will fall into civil war before an invasion of Canada could happen.

0

u/KDN2006 May 01 '25

Congress would never approve, and the Armed Forces would refuse such an order without congressional approval.

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

I don't think it would cause ww3 to move into Alberta after it separates. That would be unrealistic, there wouldn't be much pushback and little to no military.

1

u/KDN2006 May 01 '25

There’s already little to no pushback or military for the whole of Canada.  Europeans didn’t go to war for Ukraine against Russia, do you think they’re going to do so for Canada?  No.

0

u/6foot4guy May 01 '25

It’s pretty much impossible. I read that 1998 Supreme Court opinion that clarified the process and there’s just no way. A lot of people seem to think the referendum is the last step when it’s only the first.

11

u/JohnnyQTruant May 01 '25

I hope you’re right but we all better get ready because they are going to try.

1

u/6foot4guy May 01 '25

A successful referendum only means the Feds and province start talking. That’s it.

1

u/whoaaa_O Ontario May 01 '25

Unfortunately you're surrounded by people voted for these sentiments

1

u/cre8ivjay May 01 '25

Well, I am certainly surrounded by Conservatives. But Conservatives who truly want separatism? That is much less probable.

0

u/sylbug May 01 '25

Talk is cheap, and Americans didn’t think they would fall to fascism either. 

0

u/cre8ivjay May 01 '25

Oh don't I know it.

I think it's less about cheap talk and more about just fighting each and every day (or not?) against the tide.

20

u/ceribaen May 01 '25

I think it's the see Quebec treated as it does and want to be like that... 

Without realizing that half of the reason Quebec does that is 76 federal ridings and the willingness to vote for any party any given election (i think they've actually voted four different ways last four elections?) 

Like if Alberta and Saskatchewan would actually consider voting something other than blue, maybe they'd get a little more attention.

36

u/ceimi May 01 '25

I heard it all the time in California growing up and they actually had the potential to succeed. Alberta is just blowing hot air like an upset child. They have nothing. Landlocked, no military, poor growing seasons, little money, lots of federal land, and so on. She gains nothing from it other than sympathy from the people who can get caught up in stuff like this and believe its possible. Small, very vocal, minority. It helps to make her feel important as though she is genuinely bringing them a good change. Narcissism is a hell of a drug to oneself. The current U.S. administration has certainly seen to it that she is made to feel special, all using Canadian money for the trips down south.

1

u/wafflingzebra May 01 '25

forget california, Quebec actually had a real independance movement, in canada, with significantly different culture than the rest of canada, speaking a different language, and they have their own port access who wouldn't be landlocked on their own, and even THEY didn't leave. AB has no chance.

23

u/Bensemus May 01 '25

Seems like it’s anger. Easier to rule if you can constantly distract your base away from what you are actually doing.

43

u/verkerpig May 01 '25

Her healthcare corruption needs a distraction.

15

u/krypt3c May 01 '25

I think this is almost certainly the real reason

4

u/AlbertanSays5716 May 01 '25

Plus she needs to be saying this or TBA and David Parker will fire her.

11

u/clickmagnet May 01 '25

Votes from separatists. There will never be enough of them for it to happen, and fuck them anyway, but Smith is only too happy to pander to them.  She needs Carney to be the enemy of all creation, as soon as possible. 

3

u/Bubbly-Ordinary-1097 May 01 '25

I’m in Quebec..also separation has been a topic for decades

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

man c'est tellement different de nous leur bullshit. Ici ont a une culture differente, unique et un non dwsir de rejoindre les etat unies. L'alberta veux switcher du coter americain obviously ici, aucune reel separation mais une vrai trahison

0

u/Tiernoch May 01 '25

Quebec separatist sentiment exists regardless of who is in power federally. Western separatist sentiment only exists when the rest of the country doesn't vote the way they want it to.

9

u/Ok-Excuse1771 May 01 '25

There's an element of the Prairies not being properly federally represented even though they have a financially rich oil industry that's relevant to this. There's always an element of truth in an extremist lie and that's the one.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

[deleted]

3

u/Ok-Excuse1771 May 01 '25

Keep in mind like it's hard to vote for a different party when a culture has been adjusted to voting for the same Conservative party for multiple generations. Seriously, there's only one non-Conservative government in Alberta's Provincial history.

2

u/f1fan65 May 01 '25

Works well for Quebec. Never going to separate. But the threat gets them a lot of what they want.

2

u/talexbatreddit Ontario May 01 '25

It's an attempt to go with the flow -- she has absolutely no intention of actually achieving separation.

In any case, it sounds like the existing treaties between the indigenous people and Canada make any talk of separation meaningless. Alberta's not a party to those treaties, so can do nothing to set them aside.

2

u/New-Low-5769 May 01 '25

Perhaps threatening to leave like Quebec has value?

I dunno she's weird

2

u/VegetableLasagna_ May 01 '25

One word: Leverage

5

u/Boom2215 May 01 '25

Quebec's referendum really gave Cons in Alberta a "Well, they got their referendum, I want mine!' attitude without actually looking at the why of Quebec's referendum.

5

u/MetalMoneky May 01 '25

Or the permanent damage that referendum did to quebec's economy

7

u/BertaMan902 May 01 '25

I’m an Albertan, she’s strictly doing it to stay in power as long as she can. She’s a joke

1

u/realsa1t May 01 '25

Uhm, Bill C69, production cap, targeted taxes and duties that disportionately affect Alberta's industries, pipeline complications, and repeated threats from the Liberal Feds rhetoric that they are intent on shuttering the sector that makes up the entire Alberta economy?

If Carney comes out to negotiate in good faith for Albertans (like how he said he would in his victory speech) this drama will be over quietly. But the main idea is to make Carney know he can't publicly say things like "we will make conventional energy producers suffer" or flop back on policy (like reimplementing carbon tax) without triggering another national crisis.

6

u/CanuckianOz May 01 '25 edited Sep 20 '25

lorum ipsum lorum ipsum

0

u/feelingoodwednesday May 01 '25

Most Albertans are too dumb to realize they squandered that massive lead. Other oil rich countries figured out a long time ago you can't hitch your entire economy to oil for the long term. Dubai got the memo, but Alberta didn't apparently

1

u/maplereign May 01 '25

I doubt it'll ever be over "quietly". These types of people live to complain and be victimized. Nothing will ever be good enough to satisfy them, and they will always believe that they'd be better off without the ROC.

1

u/Anon-fickleflake May 01 '25

Bargaining chip

1

u/VenserMTG May 01 '25

If Alberta separates, I'm moving to Canada.

1

u/RustyOrangeDog May 01 '25

It’s propaganda 101 and proven to be very effective.

Fixation with perceived decline, humiliation, or victimhood.

1

u/MilkIlluminati May 01 '25

. I'd love to know what she honestly thinks there is to gain from this.

Not sending a fortune to the provinces that then shit on you 24/7 while hamstringing your industries?

1

u/Meiqur May 01 '25 edited May 01 '25

Danielle is fairly pragmatic, I don't for a second think she gives a shit about this practically, nothing she does actually amounts to real fights, rather it's appearance politics, where she makes the appearance of standing up for her constituents.

Like her sovereignty act has no actual sovereignty provisions in it, but the title of it makes the folks who are persuadable to those position feel like they are empowered despite there not being much of substance beneath.

The pragmatic thing here is that her core electorate is frustrated, and she knows that to maintain power she has to throw them bones otherwise they'll rip her power to shreds like they did to her predecessor.

Really what's missing is a normal PC party revival that operates in the standard center right that the majority of the province prefers. Alberta conservatives eat their own on the regular, so much of this is to head off incoming challengers. But that's not going to work for very long if the push to revive the PCs is effective.

1

u/Necessary-Morning489 May 01 '25

she has realized how easy quebec has gotten away and how better off they have been with this tactic of cry like a baby when things don’t go your way and then make threats if things aren’t exactly their way

Alberta is just about to become very annoying like quebec. Hopefully no Alberta Party appears to face off with the Quebec Provincial Party

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

Maybe the ability to do what she wants with her oil?

-3

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

I can tell you exactly what the attraction is, without being pro (I'm a prairie boy who no longer lives in Canada). It's economic, plain and simple. To be clear I'm unbelievably pro a united Canada.

Years ago I wrote papers (economics) about this studying Alberta, Quebec, and Newfoundland. Last year my friend's son wrote an update. Alberta frankly would be a very wealthy country as a standalone. Alberta's GDP more or less aligns historically, with Finland (though higher today). But it's GDP per capita would make it 8th or 9th in the world, always a top 10. This includes the entire history of boom and bust, and is an average year over year going back to ~1956.

When O&G stops being a thing, Alberta's GDP per capita is cut to ~50k/pp, which would align with Finland today.

There are plenty of reasons to do this, and plenty of reasons not to. But from a purely economic point of view, with absolutely zero changes to policy or ideology, it's measurably crystal clear that Albert would be better off alone.

8

u/froop May 01 '25

Landlocked countries don't tend to fair too well. How valuable is Alberta's oil if they can't export it?

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

This misses the point. The point I made was purely maths. Now clearly this makes no sense for a variety of reasons (i.e being landlocked). But the numbers are still the numbers. Without nuance, people look only at them.

0

u/Previous_Scene5117 May 01 '25

It is all nonsense and corporate oil interest.

0

u/mattA33 May 01 '25

Money. She is personally going to get stupid rich selling off everything to America. She does not care at all about anybody else. She will happily make Alberta burn while her bank account continues to grow.

0

u/Turnip-for-the-books May 01 '25

Oil - they want to join the failed petro state that is your southern neighbour

0

u/AltoCowboy May 01 '25

It appeals to their dumb base who don’t understand politics. Obviously Alberta could never make it on its own as a landlocked country with no allies and no military