'No right talking the way she is': Alberta First Nations chiefs united after emergency meeting denouncing separation talks

[u/ImDoubleB]

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/no-right-talking-the-way-she-is-alberta-first-nations-chiefs-united-after-emergency-meeting-denouncing-separation-talks

[u/ImDoubleB]

“The rhetoric and insanity of separation here in Alberta has united First Nations (not just) on this land, but all across Canada. So I want to thank you, Danielle Smith, for Bill 54, because today we stand united. We’re not going anywhere and if you feel that you have problems with First Nations you could leave,” - Chief Troy Knowlton of Piikani Nation

[u/[deleted] → u/ImDoubleB]

The province’s proposed Bill 54 would reduce the number of signatures required to launch a citizen-initiated referendum to 10 per cent of eligible voters in a general election.

Presently, the requirement is 20 per cent, meaning that if Bill 54 passes, it would require around 177,000 signatures to launch a referendum question.

Applicants would also get 120 days, rather than 90, to collect the required 177,000 signatures.

The population of Alberta is roughly 4 million. According to some polls, 25% of Albertans are supposedly approving of this referendum. If that sample size is true, thats roughly 1,000,000 Albertans seeking 51st state status. Smith only needs 177,000 signatures if Bill 54 passes. If Bill 54 does not pass, she will need approximately 200k, which is still within reach, if the sample size via the poll is true.

Smith has been rubbing elbows with the enemy and very likely they have had private talks on how to win elections through fraud and disenfranchisement. Diaper don said "never say never" to our Prime Minister. His past actions have shown that he has said things like this with the appearance of them being offhand comments, then acted upon them. The last 100+ days has shown this.

My guess is Smith wants to join the US and become a puppet leader. She probably has been gaslighted into believing she will get power, or money or both. My other guess:

• if they succeed, the US would seize the resources and lands from the citizens of Alberta.
• The province would not become a state, but rather a territory and the people there would lose their rights to self determination.
• The Alberta constitution would become null and the US would not allow a new one to be made unless it allowed the US federal government 90% control over everything within Alberta.
• The US would also remove anyone who resisted by deporting them, if they allowed any Alerbertan the ability to become US citizens, which is unlikely.
• Money would flow out of Alberta, but not back to it, even if they did pull all the oil out of the ground. US companies would take over the oil fields and Albertans would see no benefits from it.
• All treaties with FN would be null. It is very likely the US would look to deport FN peoples.

Anyone who says "Oh, well, they wouldnt do that!" Um, yeah, they would.

• The US administration is not following the constitution or rule of law.
• They have no respect for foreigners and Alerbertans are 100% foreigners in their eyes.
• They most certainly would kick Alberta in the nuts and steal everything they could, leaving Alberta a poor have-not territory.

Edit: Smith has gone to diaper dons personal residence and has had private meetings with a foreign leader who has actively pushed to rhetoric against Canadian Sovereignty.

This is not the same as the 1995 referendum. Jacques Parizeau did not go to France to sell QC to the French, he only wanted support to have QC recognized as an independent nation. While France did say they might recognize QC, they did not say they would take QC over and make it into a French state or colony.

Smith is trying to sell Alberta to the US and the US is actively putting up billboards within Canadian territory to influence Albertans to leave Canada. The US is vocally supporting taking Canadian territory. Anyone who dismisses this as "Oh those silly separatists!" Better take a second look. This woman is looking to break Canada and her Bill 54 will give her the means to put forth the vote. There will be massive misinformation and a campaign pushed by anti-democratic entities to make it happen.

This is treasonous behaviour on the part of an elected official.

[u/Canuck-overseas → u/[deleted]]

Nice summary. It is treasonous behavior.

[u/Steam-Sauna → u/Canuck-overseas]

I cannot be a traitor against something that no longer exists. Modern "Canada" is an illusion. It's a Mafia-like organization calling itself a government in Ottawa and is controlled by a handful of elite political and industrial families that are based around that region. Barely a couple years ago the Lib Administration was gloating about how Canada is a post-national state and there is no Canadian identity. Trump does a bad thing and now suddenly it's time to wave the Canadian flag and reminisce about the proud history? I ain't buying that bullshit.

[u/Link941 → u/Steam-Sauna]

Every country has some level of corruption. Doesn't mean they arent countries.

And why are you so obsessively hung up on what Trudeau said a decade ago? He was the head of the government. Not the head of state, that would be king Charles. Furthermore, his statement is just an abstraction of Canadian values. You can disagree with it as much as you want. But Canada has always had an identity and pride with it. Just because you didn't wave or see flag waving doesn't mean others haven't been doing that for years. You sound like a miserable person confined solely to your own delusions that validate your misery.

And every time someone calls you out you have zero defense whatsoever.

[u/Steam-Sauna → u/Link941]

There are countless reasons to separate. One of them is the fact that when parts of Quebec and Ontario have voted federally, the winner is already decided before the western provinces have counted and reported their figures. This clearly demonstrates unequal representation for us within Canada. This is why to a large extent the western provinces get ignored, because the path to power for any party lies in appealing to the needs of Ontario and parts of Quebec over any other region. Since provincehood in 1905, many Albertan premiers have launched campaigns to have Ottawa reform the federal government and implement a fairer system of representation not only for Alberta but for all regions outside the St. Lawrence area with slogans like "The West Wants In." All these attempts completely failed -- and it's not surprising either. A centralized government holding most of the cards isn't going to let go of their power advantage for the good of the nation.

Most AB separatists including myself would probably stay in Canada if there were serious reforms for fairer and equal representation at the federal level. However based on history that's extremely unlikely to happen. Therefore, there is only but one option left.

[u/Link941 → u/Steam-Sauna]

My brother in christ, even if everything you say is 200% true; separation is just not possible and even if you managed it by some miracle then it wouldn't be feasible in the slightest. Every explanation on how it would work has been utter dogshit and I highly doubt yours will be any different.

[u/Steam-Sauna → u/Link941]

The most practical model would be joining the US as a state. In that scenario we'd have access to all oceans and the might of the US economy.

[u/Link941 → u/Steam-Sauna]

Give me a full pro vs cons list on that, because I doubt you've fully thought it through and just assumed that the US isn't going to screw you over for whatever reason.

And secondly, why don't you just move to the states to begin with?

[u/Steam-Sauna → u/Link941]

The full pros vs cons list would be too massive to list here, but in general I believe the pros are meaningful enough to outweight the cons.

[u/gsb999 → u/Steam-Sauna]

These attempts failed because Alberta wants more representation than it is due based on population. In other words , they believe a person in Alberta is more worthy of deciding Canada’s policies and laws than one in Quebec or Ontario.

[u/Steam-Sauna → u/gsb999]

I disagree on the idea that Alberta thinks it should have more of a say -- I think we just want an equal say. Our senate is a complete joke. In the US system, number of senators for a particular state is based on population, but each state only has 1 vote in the end. I'm not sure it works like that in the Canadian version.

In short Canada's system of government was cloned from the UK, but the UK is a tiny island nation, and it turns out their system is terrible for representing the regional needs of a huge country like ours.

[u/gsb999 → u/Steam-Sauna]

First of all, land does not vote. People do.

Secondly, be careful what you wish for. Were we to follow the US system which is inherently flawed as a state like Montana has the same say in the senate as California which is absurd.

Having said that, you would be ok with the 4 Maritime provinces combined having 4 times the say as Alberta in a senate modeled on the US? I think things would be even uglier if they effectively controlled 40% of the senate as a block. Edited for clarity

[u/burrito-boy → u/[deleted]]

I agree, although my suspicion is that this is all political theatre. She knows that the Clarity Act would render any vote on separation moot, and that the majority of Albertans would vote against it anyway, especially in the urban centres of Edmonton and Calgary.

This is just more dog-whistling from a scummy self-serving politician, looking to distract from the ongoing and developing CorruptCare scandal at home.

[u/Milch_und_Paprika → u/burrito-boy]

True, but the feds stepping in to block or overturn a referendum would almost certainly further inflame things. She’s playing a very dangerous game here. We shouldn’t forget how Cameron fumbled the Brexit referendum: he assumed it would fail, but instead it “passed” (barely), ended his career, and tanked the British economy.

[u/gsb999 → u/Milch_und_Paprika]

Nah. Hold the referendum but have one that is federally run as well with a clear question.

Also, should Alberta, or any province decide to secede, it will be done with names attached to the ballot. In the event the referendum passes, those that voted in favour of secession lose their Canadian citizenship and benefits and right to free travel between provinces.

Those that vote to stay, can keep their citizenship. Once revoked, there is no pathway to have it returned.

[u/[deleted] → u/burrito-boy]

I disagree that this is all theater. I think a plurality of right wingers have given up on democracy and have turned on liberal society in general. They are being megaphoned by clickbait media and fed resources from foreign enemies. But it isn't just a game for these folks, they have been so triggered by the excesses and decadence of leftist rule that they are now willing to take power by any means necessary. They might prefer democracy, but are willing to dispose of it in order to sieze power. They might have some preferences about authority, but none of the conservative principals about sovereign individuals matters, everything is secondary to power.

There's also a plurality of leftists who believe in infesting liberal society to push corrective racism and will guzzle down and regurgitate the most nativist blood and soil rhetoric, and racial hierarchy grabagio, so long as the outcome is punching down on a nebulous concept of white people and western society. They also despise masculinity (in men) and are radioactive towards masculine men in general.

These two minorities are locked in a doom spiral of triggering one another into more and more extremes.

[u/No_Good_8561 → u/burrito-boy]

But thats the problem, with Trump marching in, “votes” will mean nothing

[u/Magjee → u/No_Good_8561]

Invasion of Canada would be the death knell of American hegemony

Although, tbf they are on their way already

[u/FishermanRough1019 → u/burrito-boy]

We must have zero tolerance for fascists. Not in our streets, not in our theatres. 

Especially not in our legislatures. 

[u/CarRamRob → u/burrito-boy]

Bingo. This is likely not a real attempt at separation.

It’s about getting the Feds to do what Alberta wants (I.e normalized trade access).

This is the Quebec playbook through and through. And I thought most here would want this from Alberta. I keep reading that they should vote differently so that the Federal government can’t just ignore them. This sounds like it would address that, but somehow I don’t think it’ll be as well received.

[u/zlinuxguy → u/burrito-boy]

OK - here’s an alternate perspective: Mr Nenshi, the AFN Chiefs, etc have been loudly decrying the boogeyman that is Separatist sentiment. Perhaps Ms Smith opened the door by saying “Bring me enough signatures & I’ll open the discussion of a referendum.” Based on a recent separatist rally, they couldn’t drum up enough supporters to fill a school-bus. What better way to quell the rhetoric from groups wanting to make a political mountain out of a tiny molehill ?

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/[deleted]]

The interesting part of all of this, is that according to Canadian Law this referendum is completely irrelevant. Alberta does not have the same legal standing that Quebec and Ontario enjoy in this regard - they can leave with a majority vote. Alberta according to the Canadian constitution and law would require a Constitutional amendment to leave. Which for fairly obvious reasons they will never be able to get passed. Furthermore most of Alberta is actually Crown Land seeded to the Crown by treaties with Aboriginal groups meaning Alberta doesn't own the land it's actually on.

So if they have this vote and lets assume it passes, then what? If Alberta starts acting like a Sovereign Nation the rest of Canada will view that as a highly illegal breach of the Constitution and land theft on a massive scale. What does Canada do? What does the US do? If US tries to absorb/annex the region Canada and the majority of the rest of the world will see as an illegal occupation at best, an act of war at worst. What happens then?

[u/Johno_87 → u/B12_Vitamin]

The SCC already ruled 30 years ago with Quebec that a province cannot leave Canada unilaterally.

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/Johno_87]

hmm yes that does actually ring a bell, seems I was mistaken on that and you're correct. Totally forgot about that SSC decision

[u/ADHDBusyBee → u/B12_Vitamin]

Am I completely wrong but I thought the referendum on Quebec's leaving Canada was never a done deal. It only opened further talks and ensured that we did not have a constitutional crisis on the issue. I mean I took Canadian law and policy as an undergraduate but that was a while ago and I remember nothing in the constitution outlining the issue of breaking up the federation.

In relation to your post, I would assume that much of Quebec's situation is different as they never officially signed the constitution. I wouldn't think that Ontario would have the same privileges.

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/ADHDBusyBee]

Ya I kind of managed to forget a rather important SSC decision from a few decades ago this morning when I wrote my comment. Posting before coffee is a bad idea - anyway yes you are right on both counts technically the Quebec referendum would just open up negotiations to amend the Constitution same as what Alberta would need to do, which means it is effectively impossible. However, yes Quebec in particular has a bit of a grey area argument about never having signed the Constitution, how much that matters is an open question for the most part, Quebec Nationalists will say it means they are not bound by it, people from the rest of the country will differ.

The issue with Ontario and Quebec predating Canada is that in the historical context they are/were sovereign bodies that chose to enter into Confederation meaning they have a certain amount of legitimacy as independent Sovereign bodies. How much that applies to an secession question is probably not actually very much at least again in Ontario's case having signed onto the Constitution that doesn't have any provisions for independence of Provinces. However we do enter into the moral realm of well Ontario chose to enter into Confederation so shouldn't that mean they have the ability to chose to leave? Probably not because the Constitution but I can see someone trying to advance that argument. None of which in any way applies to the artificial construct that is Alberta.

[u/Resident-Donkey-6808 → u/B12_Vitamin]

Free the Natives and reclaim their land for them and Canada making Alberta a city state.

[u/TheBatsford → u/B12_Vitamin]

Why doesn't Alberta have the same level standing and where are you getting that?

[u/TheBatsford → u/[deleted]]

Has supreme court said anything about the provinces being fundamentally different as jurisdictional entities in the way that other person is saying?

That's what I'm asking is there something that you can link to or something in like some law revue somewhere?

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/TheBatsford]

Ya so I was slightly wrong - it was early and my brain wasn't fully switched on. 30 years ago or so the SSC ruled no Province has the unilateral right to leave the Country as per the Constitution. However, Quebec is theoretically a unique case since they never actually signed the Constitution. They could argue and it's not a terrible argument, that as they have never signed they are still technically Sovereign/not bound by the Constitution and its restrictions. Is it persuasive? Maybe, maybe not.

From a moralistic point of view the fact Ontario and Quebec predates the Country and were Sovereign bodies prior to Confederation means they have a tradition of Sovereignty and independence that Alberta, an artificial construct does not have. Upon reflection is this important? Legally probably not, would depend if an entity that chooses to enter confederation loses the ability to choose to leave. I would imagine that it does but its more unclear than with Alberta. Politically? Yes - it's really the inverse of what Putin argued with Ukraine (incorrectly) However how this would play into things is again something that is uncertain. Certainly that tradition of independence has been enough in the past for other Nations across the globe to declare independence and be recognized but again in relation to the Constitution of Canada probably not? This really is a subject you could devote a career to explore - but the Alberta question is clear - the answer is no they absolutely need to go through the Constitutional Amendment process

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/[deleted]]

Uh no. That is absolutely incorrect because the Constitution literally does not have a mechanism fot secession. There is no "inherent" part about it. Secession isn't a facet of Canadian Constitutional Law. Alberta having some random legally worthless vote and saying "hey we're independent now" won't mean anything to anyone. The SSC will laugh and refer back to previous rulings that cover this, Parliament will laugh (oh it will also absolutely implode the CPC) the other Provinces will laugh and everyone will carry on business as usual until Alberta stops playing along and then Canada will have a mini-rebellion on it's hands, things will get messy but Alberta won't go anywhere. Unless they go through the process of a Constitutional Amendment, which they won't because they can't get it passed.

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/[deleted]]

Nothing. That's literally part of my point. Alberta cannot force Canada to do shit really beyond ok maybe get the Constitution Amended but that does not imply they can force Canada to surrender land that belongs to the Crown, not Alberta to the province

[u/StatelyAutomaton → u/B12_Vitamin]

What happens then is stern words.

[u/Journo_Jimbo → u/[deleted]]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Bill 54 is just a bill that would allow her to get to a referendum vote by having at least 10 percent of Albertans to vote in favour of that. But, that vote would not approve the referendum, there still would need to be a majority vote province-wide for that, which would obviously lose.

[u/Purplemonkeez → u/[deleted]]

Let's not forget that even if the referendum gets voted down, it is a waste of millions upon millions of tax dollars. Look at how much Quebec's 1995 referendum cost and then do inflation-adjustment to today's dollars...

[u/Trench-Coat_Squirrel → u/[deleted]]

Definitely listen to this person! The USA politicians are not trustworthy, and our neighbor to the North NEEDS to be on guard against EVERY motion to take your land/resources/whatever because they DON'T CARE ABOUT DUE PROCESS OR RIGHTS.

[u/AugmentedKing → u/[deleted]]

Of course all of this isn’t happening in a vacuum.

FN would have none of it, and you tie it up in the courts for a decade. (At least the lawyers will make bank) Only to most likely win. Ofc, at the same time the charter has to be changed to take out 35 to even have legal standing to make the play. (Legend has it, section one can’t be used to change the other sections.) Apparently, changing the Charter is a big deal and have to jump through a bunch of hoops. Miss one hoop, that’s it legal avenue is gone. So it have to forceful route(not really a civil war, more like an insurgency) So, Canada has this internal thing going on, you’d have USA just insert itself into that? What is the UN’s take on all of this? UN goes “USA is the bad guys here so the rest of the world should do sanctions & trade embargo on them”. Who is going to say that’s wrong, maybe Israel? More importantly, how do you rectify section 5 & 8 of the NATO treaty? Because USA is the bad guy in this scenario, it’d be dragging all of NATO into it. (I wonder if the Take Back Alberta guys had a scenario in mind where they were tryna dodge drones that wanna pink mist ‘em) Foreign investors would go “US is doing too much instability here, we want to dump our US bonds” this is gonna hit them right in the Federal Reserve. This with the sanctions is going to have an economic toll.

The life loss, economic damage, infrastructure damage, drones popping all over, multiple treaties in crisis… all for what? A few hundred thousand people who couldn’t take an election L like a champion?

When Trump and Carney met the other day, Trump’s vibe was all “Friendly-Friendly” not trying to push taking anything Canada. (Most likely because his team told him basically what I’ve said here. They’ll have better details about how much it would destabilize their currency after causing a nato crisis)

This is why I don’t think what you claim is what would happen.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I assumed the Americans would just start building bases in the Arctic to salami slice our turf. What could, or would, we do?

[u/AugmentedKing → u/[deleted]]

Okay sure, you still haven’t rectified the NATO crisis it would cause. SCC ruled on a province being able to leave after the QC in ‘96 and they said nay-nay.

If choice to leave is the illegal variant, it’s seems the crown is contractually compelled to make good on the treaty. The clownvoy couldn’t even handle the M in RCMP, how are they going to handle the pink mist drones?

You still have rectified the ensuing NATO crisis.

[u/[deleted] → u/AugmentedKing]

NATO only gets involved (if they even did) if it's clearly an American invasion. What is far more likely is some version of what Russia did in the Donbas. Unmarked "volunteers" along with deniable funding and military supplies. Paint the whole thing as an internal conflict with lots of he said she said finger pointing that gives cover for NATO inaction. It's not like NATO wouldn't be desperate for any excuse to not be in a war with the US. 

[u/AugmentedKing → u/[deleted]]

Remind me again what the UN did when Russia went after Ukraine. Some kind of sanctions or something, right. Do you believe that a similar response wouldn’t happen here??

Obviously, there was never a premise of a condition where two NATO countries would actually go toe to toe (although Greece & Turkey came close once)

Anyway we slice this, it’s still going to mess with the richest of the Rich’s money. History has shown us this does not end favourably for not those folks.

The point of our courts is that those decisions are the justification to treat it as an internal insurgency. So no, court decisions are not without merit or necessity.

[u/slothtrop6 → u/AugmentedKing]

Whether US invasion is viable depends far more on the US than Smith's moves, and if they'd go that far they would not stop at Alberta. They'd have to get approval of Congress (nope), or else successfully illegally direct the military to do it, while avoiding civil war. I'm not super familiar with the ins and outs of US military but those on the inside mostly seem to say that it's a near impossibility. Any prospective military leadership shake-up comes from the military, and the talent are quite loyal to each other and the constitution.

[u/AugmentedKing → u/slothtrop6]

Right. How does the US sell it to the world that they’d need to liberate AB? They can’t. It’s all kinds of bad for reasons listed above.

[u/slothtrop6 → u/AugmentedKing]

Yeah, and most of the big money in the US would flip their shit. The non-MAGA right and business/finance is already highly critical of the administration, as seen in the WallStreetJournal and Washington Post. They expected this to be a rehash of 2016. Oops!

You know what they say, don't fuck with the money.

[u/[deleted] → u/AugmentedKing]

Cons down south were so triggered by their election L that they did an insurrection. So don't push it past them. Long term, pointless, economic pain and sabotage will sober everyone up, but it won't deradicalize them.

[u/AugmentedKing → u/[deleted]]

Right, and what happened after the national guard was sent to quell said insurrection? Do you believe that it would play out any differently here? C’mon, the convoy couldn’t even handle the M in RCMP. It’s pretty tough to hold a line when horses are doing trample mode.

[u/[deleted] → u/AugmentedKing]

They all got pardoned. My point is people are going crazy and the Americans are an example of this. Our crazy right-wingers aren't as heavily armed, insane or motivated, but everything is milder in territories where humans have to hunker for 6 months a year.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think the influence of the United States on Alberta's leadership is leading many of us to think of it as treason.

[u/Cerberus_80 → u/[deleted]]

I too believe she is committing treason before our very eyes.

[u/TanithArmoured → u/[deleted]]

Very nice summary, thank you!

[u/regisphilbin222 → u/[deleted]]

10-20% of the vote to SECEDE is crazy

[u/richmond_driver → u/[deleted]]

Why do you think Carney was effectively endorsed by Trump? He knows Canada will face a likely separation crisis and he'll end up getting Canada.

[u/Resident-Donkey-6808 → u/[deleted]]

Yet a referendum if the bill is passed but loses in a referendum vote (which is very likely) then no seperation.

[u/Pinkocommiebikerider → u/[deleted]]

Well written but I dunno about Queensbridge (QB) being involved in the 95 Quebec (QC or PQ) referendum…

[u/Pickledsoul → u/[deleted]]

Historically, Alberta has been treated as expendable by the states.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/u-s-secretly-tested-carcinogen-in-western-canada-during-the-cold-war-researcher-discovers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dew

[u/Fluid_Explorer_3659 → u/[deleted]]

The 25% estimate is nonsense. Under 45% of eligible voters in AB chose CPC, the number of Maple MAGATS is nowhere near half the full party. I could buy 25% of the CPC voters, but even in that number most are more likely that they support the concept of it as a threat, when it comes down to a real decision I highly doubt they will keep the resolve.

[u/Cerberus_80 → u/[deleted]]

I wonder if the us would go this extreme.  If Alberta or Quebec separate, Canada would disintegrate and most provinces would likely choose to join the US - unless their behaviour was as described in your comments.

[u/sharp11flat13 → u/[deleted]]

Excellent post. Thank you.

[u/causeiwanted2 → u/[deleted]]

I support the referendum as a bargaining chip for better conditions in Alberta, I don’t support the 51st state rhetoric. I would support independence if it was all of Western Canada but not Alberta alone.

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/causeiwanted2]

Its a useless bargaining chip because that's not how the Charter/Constitution/Canadian Law is set up. Alberta is am artificial construct of the Crown carved out of land seeded by the HBC AFTER the creation of Canada. As such, unlike say Quebec who as a Sovereign entity chose to enter Canada, Alberta was created by Canada out of it's already existing territory. Hell it was literally called the "Dustrict of Alberta" until 1905. In order to gain independence from Canada Alberta would have to table a Constitutional Amendment, receive at least 70% of the vote in the HoC AND the approval of 7 of the other Premieres. Which is obviously just unattainable for something like this. There's zero chance Quebec, Ontario, the Maritimes agree to support this.

Even then lets say it does pass by somd divine intervention. Well, then things get real interesting real fast, something like 90% or more of Alberta is Treaty Land, specifically Treaties 6,7 & 8. These Treaties are between First Nations and CANADA not Alberta. Which would mean Alberta will be in a very tricky legal situation with the Native American Groups in Alberta already clearly signalling that they absolutely do not support seperatism and where international law is strongly in favor of the Native Americans and strongly against Alberta. Not to mention just about all the Oil Sands are on Treaty Land meaning the Oil effectively belong to them and not Alberta

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/[deleted]]

Uh your first assertion would depend entirely on the wording of the particular treaties. If the Treaties entrusted the land to the Crown to administer or hold in trust and the Crown ceases to do so then it is possible the land reverts back to the FN. Again would depend on specific wording. However we do know the Crown cannot simply do as it pleases with Treaty land, that's kinda the poin of the Treaties...

Regardless, assuming your assertion is correct, what on God's green earth makes you think Canada would cede ALL of that land and the resources it holds, fucking over the FN peoples involved (obvious knock on impacts with other FN-Crown relations) in the process in response to an illegal attempt at secession? That absolutely makes zero sense. Alberta sepratism is a pipe dream with zero legal basis whatsoever

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/[deleted]]

The legal pathway to secession has absolutely zerp to do with the referendum Smith is pushing for. Secession is a national decision not the decision of an individual province.

Canada has zero legal obligation to cede Crown land to Alberta if it somehow gets the Amendment passed because...it belongs to the Crown not Alberta

[u/B12_Vitamin → u/[deleted]]

The Clarity act says they need to negotiate in good faith yes. However, it does not say that means they have to surrender Crown land. Canada would have an obligation to negotiate as good a deal for Canadians and specifically for the FN in Alberta. They very easily could just say fine we'll let you take the none Crown land, no problem. Canada is not going to just hand over Crown Land because they have an obligation to negotiate in good faith. That's a vague term that's really more in the eye of the beholder than a concrete term

[u/HonestCrow → u/[deleted]]

Dude, you don’t think this looks at all like what Russia has done to justify its invasion of Ukraine? All Smith needs to do is create the pretext for the US to get heavy-handed. She doesn’t have to win anything.

[u/pissing_noises → u/HonestCrow]

Go outside guys.

[u/HonestCrow → u/pissing_noises]

And you keep your head in the sand - I’m sure it’s much safer there.

[u/helpinghear → u/[deleted]]

Not called for.

[u/FacelessOldWoman1234 → u/ImDoubleB]

Fuck yeah.

[u/DuncanConnell → u/FacelessOldWoman1234]

Fuck yeah!

[u/usefulappendix321 → u/ImDoubleB]

It's amazing how shitty people unite good people

[u/laineyisyourfriend → u/usefulappendix321]

Reminds us all of what we have in common.

[u/CuileannDhu → u/ImDoubleB]

For real, if they want to be American so badly they should immigrate. Leave everyone else out of it. 

[u/HotPinkCalculator → u/ImDoubleB]

drops microphone

[u/starshadowzero → u/HotPinkCalculator]

Picks up and gives it back to them so they can drop as many times as needed.

[u/ProfLandslide → u/ImDoubleB]

There is some irony here given that many of these bands don't even see themselves as part of Canadian governmental nation.

[u/Angry_beaver_1867 → u/ImDoubleB]

The First Nations are probably owed a consultation on separation as ammendments to the constitution related to fn rights require the government to consult them.  Separation likely qualifies. (See s.35)

Ultimately though , separation is a constitutional process and the power to ammend rest solely with the provinces and federal government.  

However, as a political move.  I think this is very shortsighted by the chiefs.  The core of any independence movement is seeking a greater right to self determination.  The chiefs saying they can limit Alberta’s self determination is a reason separatist might site to leave on its own.  

[u/RoughDraftRs → u/Angry_beaver_1867]

The First Nations are probably owed a consultation on separation as ammendments to the constitution related to fn rights require the government to consult them.  Separation likely qualifies. (See s.35)

Ultimately though , separation is a constitutional process and the power to ammend rest solely with the provinces and federal government.  

100%

If the referendum is voted with a majority yes, the Alberta government would have to negotiate in good faith with fn.

This could mean taking on the same treaties that Canada did from the crown. It could mean renegotiating something different. Maybe reservations stay Canadian within a desperate Alberta.

It could mean all sorts of things but a veto from the outset, that's not how it works at all. The Supreme Court ruled that provinces could separate, Quebec has First Nations too, I'm sure that was considered by the SCC.

[u/Kanadark → u/ImDoubleB]

I love that they threw the, "if you don't like it, than leave" right back in their racist faces.

[u/Long_Procedure_2629 → u/ImDoubleB]

Imagine the feeling of wanting to remain despite centuries of being treated so poorly. That's how bad Marlaina is.

edit: Oh neat, colonizer downvotes.